Matt Stone Vs Ray Peat (Overeating VS Eating Without Gaining)

[mmb82]

Hi tara, I know this is an old post but I can't find the original Youreatopia website...!
do you have any recollection of the original material on youreatopia site? I looked at it a couple years ago but was in denial of my disordered eating.

Here is a link to the blog portion of the website. I too suffered from anorexia and disordered eating and used Youreatopia (and Matt Stone's stuff) as a guide for recovery. I am not a doctor and I realize your question was not for me, but I would stay away from taking drugs/medications while recovering. Many GI issues are likely to go away once your body starts to heal since digestion is usually compromised in people who are chronically undereating. If you want more information on this, I emailed Gwyneth and asked her thoughts on food allergies, leaky gut, dysbiosis, etc. and can send you her response, but in summary, she says, "For what it is worth, I would suggest steering clear of investigating food intolerances and hyperpermeability unless there is no improvement in symptoms after 18 months of being in solid recovery."

Unfortunately, overcoming an eating disorder has a huge mental component. It feels very uncomfortable to gain weight even if you need to; you begin to feel like an alien in your own body. Weight gain usually happens rapidly when finally eating enough (and more) and your hormones, hair, digestion, etc. take a bit longer to catch up, so it can be daunting waiting

 

[Tarmander]

Here is a link to the blog portion of the website. I too suffered from anorexia and disordered eating and used Youreatopia (and Matt Stone's stuff) as a guide for recovery. I am not a doctor and I realize your question was not for me, but I would stay away from taking drugs/medications while recovering. Many GI issues are likely to go away once your body starts to heal since digestion is usually compromised in people who are chronically undereating. If you want more information on this, I emailed Gwyneth and asked her thoughts on food allergies, leaky gut, dysbiosis, etc. and can send you her response, but in summary, she says, "For what it is worth, I would suggest steering clear of investigating food intolerances and hyperpermeability unless there is no improvement in symptoms after 18 months of being in solid recovery."

Unfortunately, overcoming an eating disorder has a huge mental component. It feels very uncomfortable to gain weight even if you need to; you begin to feel like an alien in your own body. Weight gain usually happens rapidly when finally eating enough (and more) and your hormones, hair, digestion, etc. take a bit longer to catch up, so it can be daunting waiting

While a good warning, I will put in here that adding digestive enzymes or HCL to the mix can be very helpful as digestive juices are quite low when starting out recovering. The risks involved in those supplements seem to be very small, and the benefits great.

 

[mmb82]

While a good warning, I will put in here that adding digestive enzymes or HCL to the mix can be very helpful as digestive juices are quite low when starting out recovering. The risks involved in those supplements seem to be very small, and the benefits great.

Agreed! Supplements can definitely aid in the recovery process as long as they serve a purpose and truly supplement an already good, calorically-dense diet rather than making up for a nutrient- or calorically-deprived diet.

 

[bionicheart]

Here is a link to the blog portion of the website. I too suffered from anorexia and disordered eating and used Youreatopia (and Matt Stone's stuff) as a guide for recovery. I am not a doctor and I realize your question was not for me, but I would stay away from taking drugs/medications while recovering. Many GI issues are likely to go away once your body starts to heal since digestion is usually compromised in people who are chronically undereating. If you want more information on this, I emailed Gwyneth and asked her thoughts on food allergies, leaky gut, dysbiosis, etc. and can send you her response, but in summary, she says, "For what it is worth, I would suggest steering clear of investigating food intolerances and hyperpermeability unless there is no improvement in symptoms after 18 months of being in solid recovery."

Unfortunately, overcoming an eating disorder has a huge mental component. It feels very uncomfortable to gain weight even if you need to; you begin to feel like an alien in your own body. Weight gain usually happens rapidly when finally eating enough (and more) and your hormones, hair, digestion, etc. take a bit longer to catch up, so it can be daunting waiting

Thank you so much for your input, I would love to hear what Gwyneth has to say if you don't mind.
I guess my biggest struggle is knowing I have a "healthy BMI" and eating eating much during the day then eating a lot at night (in my distorted opinion) like a grilled cheese with two pieces of bread, 2 slices of cheese, maybe a tablespoon of butter then 1/2 pint of ice cream. But I know I'm probably under 2000 calories a day and definitely not enough protein. But I'll drop the mirtaz after today, I'm seeing my therapist next week. I've been so focused on work and my relationship issues that I've completely ignored my poor eating habits. I'm also chronically anemic so that doesn't help--fatigue constantly, dizzy. Just feeling really lost when it comes to food since I feel marijuana ruined my appetite so it'll be a couple weeks before I WANT to eat... I'm trying to push through it because I feel weak and lightheaded until get home and eat something. This may be TMI but I feel that I don't digest fat properly and that's where most of my calories come from, that and sugar/OJ..
Sorry for being all over the place, I'll check out the blog now, thanks again!!!

 

[tara]

Hi tara, I know this is an old post but I can't find the original Youreatopia website...!

Gwyneth Olwyn's got a new site here, with much of the old content from the youreatopia site:
Patients and General Public
There's a thread with related discussion here:
Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia

Even though I have a monthly cycle and a "healthy BMI" 130 lbs at 5'10" I'm still boney and have GI issues.

Whether that's a healthy weight for you personally or not is hard to know. It's pretty low compared with most people and compared with the standard scale (based on BMI, near the bottom of the so-called 'ideal weight', almost down to 'underweight').

I've been told cypro is helpful in my situation but don't want to make my depression worse.

Do you have reason to think the cyproheptadine would worsen depression? I don't know what the source of your depression is, but my understanding is that contributing factors can include both ongoing or acute life stresses/traumas that may need addressing, and also metabolic lack of physical energy. Chronic undereating can contribute to lack of physical energy, and there can also be other bottlenecks too.
AIUI, cyproheptadine has been used by people struggling with anorexia to help improve appetite. It apparently has some anti-serotonin effects. This can be helpful for many people. In some countries, anti-serotonin drugs are used to treat depression.
Getting support is important too.

Have you seen Peat's articles on serotonin? Here is one, and there are a couple more on his site:
Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.
For some people, cyproheptadine seems to have effects that may make them want to sleep more, or or feel less stressed. If one is running on stress, this can sometimes make it harder to push oneself to get lots of things done. But then pushing to get too much done may be part of what's causing the harm. There are quire a few reports from people who have used it. Some got used to it after a few days, and continued to get benefit.
Some people have found they got significant benefits from very small doses of cyproheptadine - eg 1/2 mg (tablets are typically 4mg) , others used larger doses.
I did not continue with it long term.
Bear in mind I have no medical training and am not in a position to give medical advice.

I finally stopped smoking 3 days ago ...

Congratulations :)

I'm 28 and used progesterone for a couple months (40-90mg a day) and that got rid of my painful periods,

Yay!

but now I just need to gain weight (preferably muscle) I have a tendency to stop taking mirtaz once I start gaining and go back to disordered eating.

According to Olwyn's writing, if you really are depleted from undereating, you are unlikely to be able to control exactly where the gains go, especially at the beginning. If you read those articles on the ED Institute site, there's one that describes the phases of recovery. If your system has adapted to famine, it's first priority when it gets enough food again is likely to be to store fuel reserves for the next famine, especially round the vital organs. It might temporarily overshoot your normal healthy weight. After that, if you can hold your nerve and continue, other organs including muscles will rebuild.

so I've skipped lunch a lot and am eating most of my calories in the evening, mostly high fat foods, like ice cream, milk and/or grilled cheese with sourdough,

Have you calculated how much you've been eating, calorie-wise, on the average day? If its's been really low, then it may be immportant to have a dr know that you are embarking on recovery, and let people close to you know to look out for the signs of refeeding syndrome - I gather it's it's fairly rare, treatable if you get to it quickly, but dangerous if not treated.

Can you make sure you get a decent breakfast in before work? And make yourself a nourishing smoothie or something that you can take to work with you that doesn't take long to drink when you get a few minutes?
I'm generally in favour of making sure to generously supply all the micronutrients, as well as protein and fuel (carbs and fats), especially when you've got a bit of repair and rebuilding to do.

Hope it goes well for you.

 

[tara]

Have you calculated how much you've been eating, calorie-wise, on the average day?

I guess my biggest struggle is knowing I have a "healthy BMI" and eating eating much during the day then eating a lot at night (in my distorted opinion) like a grilled cheese with two pieces of bread, 2 slices of cheese, maybe a tablespoon of butter then 1/2 pint of ice cream. But I know I'm probably under 2000 calories a day and definitely not enough protein.

Just saw this. I'd favour tracking calories for a while, and going for Gwyneth's minimum every day:
Not sure of your age, but IIRC, she says 2500 cals/day for mature adult woman, 3000 if under 25yrs and 200 cals more if extra tall.
More if hungry for more once appetite kicks in.

Here is a link to the blog portion of the website. I too suffered from anorexia and disordered eating and used Youreatopia (and Matt Stone's stuff) as a guide for recovery. I am not a doctor and I realize your question was not for me, but I would stay away from taking drugs/medications while recovering. Many GI issues are likely to go away once your body starts to heal since digestion is usually compromised in people who are chronically undereating. If you want more information on this, I emailed Gwyneth and asked her thoughts on food allergies, leaky gut, dysbiosis, etc. and can send you her response, but in summary, she says, "For what it is worth, I would suggest steering clear of investigating food intolerances and hyperpermeability unless there is no improvement in symptoms after 18 months of being in solid recovery."

Could well be that just eating enough will be enough to get things moving. I don't have strong opinion one way or the other about small doses of the cyproheptadine, not being an expert.

While a good warning, I will put in here that adding digestive enzymes or HCL to the mix can be very helpful as digestive juices are quite low when starting out recovering. The risks involved in those supplements seem to be very small, and the benefits great.

I've not used them, but it seems reasonable to try them if the digestion is really struggling to keep up.

 

[bionicheart]

Gwyneth Olwyn's got a new site here, with much of the old content from the youreatopia site:
Patients and General Public
There's a thread with related discussion here:
Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia


Whether that's a healthy weight for you personally or not is hard to know. It's pretty low compared with most people and compared with the standard scale (based on BMI, near the bottom of the so-called 'ideal weight', almost down to 'underweight').


Do you have reason to think the cyproheptadine would worsen depression? I don't know what the source of your depression is, but my understanding is that contributing factors can include both ongoing or acute life stresses/traumas that may need addressing, and also metabolic lack of physical energy. Chronic undereating can contribute to lack of physical energy, and there can also be other bottlenecks too.
AIUI, cyproheptadine has been used by people struggling with anorexia to help improve appetite. It apparently has some anti-serotonin effects. This can be helpful for many people. In some countries, anti-serotonin drugs are used to treat depression.
Getting support is important too.

Have you calculated how much you've been eating, calorie-wise, on the average day? If its's been really low, then it may be immportant to have a dr know that you are embarking on recovery, and let people close to you know to look out for the signs of refeeding syndrome - I gather it's it's fairly rare, treatable if you get to it quickly, but dangerous if not treated.

Can you make sure you get a decent breakfast in before work? And make yourself a nourishing smoothie or something that you can take to work with you that doesn't take long to drink when you get a few minutes?
I'm generally in favour of making sure to generously supply all the micronutrients, as well as protein and fuel (carbs and fats), especially when you've got a bit of repair and rebuilding to do.

I read somewhere on the forum that cypro has worsened depression in a few individuals, so I'm just speculating and over analyzing... Mirtazapine doesn't make me depressed but helps with sleep and appetite so maybe I'll try cypro since it's similar, if not superior to mirtaz (based on what I've read on this forum and Peat's email exchange) I have not been keeping up with how many calories I consume, but am going to start tomorrow, well, at least until I see an Eating Disordered-oriented nutritionist, I went to her a couple years ago, but thought--that's way too much food so never went back--red flag.
I can't do this on my own. I was telling mmb82 that after reading more from Gwyneth, I realized I've had an eating disorder for years but was in such denial until I read that almost all of my "health issues" appear to be due to chronic undereating.
I can make a decent breakfast, and make a smoothie for lunch. I went to the grocery store after work today, so I have no excuses for not eating enough the next few days. I'm seeing my therapist next week, whom I've never talked to about food--another red flag, I absolutely have a problem. But I'm glad I've investigated and I'm ready to heal.

 

[tara]

I read somewhere on the forum that cypro has worsened depression in a few individuals, so I'm just speculating and over analyzing... Mirtazapine doesn't make me depressed but helps with sleep and appetite so maybe I'll try cypro since it's similar, if not superior to mirtaz (based on what I've read on this forum and Peat's email exchange)

You don't have to use it if it worries you. And if you decide to, you can try a very small dose for a few days, and decide to stop at any time if you want to.
I think having less drive, even if the drive is from stress, can sometimes feel like more depressed to some people.
You may also need a good bit of rest during recovery. Hope you can get that.
And hoping you will eventually rebuild your energy levels so that you don't need to run on chronic stress or hunger, etc.

But I'm glad I've investigated and I'm ready to heal.

Go for it. Stick with it. Courage and persistence to you.

 

[bionicheart]

You don't have to use it if it worries you. And if you decide to, you can try a very small dose for a few days, and decide to stop at any time if you want to.
I think having less drive, even if the drive is from stress, can sometimes feel like more depressed to some people.
You may also need a good bit of rest during recovery. Hope you can get that.
And hoping you will eventually rebuild your energy levels so that you don't need to run on chronic stress or hunger, etc.


Go for it. Stick with it. Courage and persistence to you.

Thank you Tara! :}