New To Peating - Cold Hands And Feet/ Trying To Lose Weight

mangopop

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Hi!

I'm new to peating. I'm coming from ~8 months of the Matt Stone eat for heat protocol - basically what happened is that I gained a ton of weight eating lots of starch and fat. My metabolism did improve slightly, but still never reached 98.6. I'm usually in the 97s the first half of my cycle and then around 98.3 post O (which happens super late, btw). Before Matt Stone, I was following wapf/low carb for 5 months and before that I was just a chronic dieter, pretty low calorie.

My goals are to raise my metabolism, lose weight and ultimately have another baby. I have a 20 month old.

I've been following Ray Peat's suggestions for weight loss: mainly "eating" milk (2 quarts), oj (1 quart), a few soft-boiled eggs, one carrot, lots of salt and some gelatin. Also some fruit and cheese. My hands, feet and tip of nose have been cold. I also am peeing sooooo much. I'm drinking too many liquids? What should I do?

Not supplementing right now, but I did order some progest-e and pregnenolone.

Please advise!
 

Orion

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Cold hands, feet and nose, could mean you are still relying on stress hormones to stabilize blood sugar.

Are you eating enough calories, protein, keeping PUFA very low, chronometer.com can help track this.

Coming off eat for heat to lots of liquids when hypo can be troublesome, but increasing salt intake could help.

Important to get your fat solubles A/E/K and B's, high intake of Cal/Mag to Phosphate at least 100g protein.

Are you tracking temps and pulse; waking, before/after meals.


Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
 

artlange

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last summer when I was low thyroid from too many raw kale salads, I was always thirsty and peed a lot. now with milk and OJ and a desiccated thyroid supplement and no raw veges except carrot, my hands are warm and almost never get cold. still pee a lot because of a prostate issue.
 
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mangopop

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Orion and artlange, thanks so much for your replies! There is so much ray peat info to go through, it really gets overwhelming.

Today I felt a lot better than yesterday. Maybe my body is getting used to things. I still drank a lot of OJ and milk but added even more salt. Is it possible to eat too much salt? I take it in big pinches and wash it down with my drink. I do this at least 5 times per drink. Today I didn't have big portions of the day where my hands and feet were like ice. I also sat in the sun for about 1.5 hours. That really helped. Eating many small meals has also been helpful. I'm still peeing a lot though, and it's still pretty clear. But, I do think there was a small improvement from yesterday

I started on cronometer. So far today I've eaten about 2,000 calories 129g of protein, 3g pufa. I'm going to add in shrimp and oysters starting tomorrow. I also take 4 capsules of desiccated beef liver daily. It looks like I'm low in vit e and vit k. Will start working on those. I have a vit k supplement that I've been neglecting and have progest-e coming. It also says I'm low in B3. Should I supp niacin? I'll look into that. Also low on manganese.

I track my temps every morning. Today I woke up with a temp of 98.1, I'm in the end of my cycle so a higher (for me) temperature is standard. I find it too stressful to check my temps before/after meals. I get really bummed if it's low. I prefer to go off how warm I am.

I haven't gone to thyroid supplements. I kind of want to see what I can do without them. What are the thoughts there? Do you have to take thyroid for success? I definitely do think I'm hypothyroid but have never been tested.
 

artlange

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my doc said I was in normal range for TSH ( 2.96 normal 0.4 to 3.0) and did not want to prescribe thyroid. so I did my own thyroid trial with the dessicated bovine thyroid. I increased slowly until my resting HR was around 85, and my waking temp around 98. because of other issues, my body set point is low, about 97.4 day time temp. Above that temp, I sweat a lot during the day, and my hands are never cold. my metabolism is much better. (Search Steve Richfield for temp set point discussion)

ray did discuss temp and HR testing on one of his KMUD interviews.
 

tara

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I'm drinking too many liquids?
Can't be sure what exactly will work for you, but a couple of things you could try to see if they help:
  • 3 litres may or may not be too much liquid for you at this time. If you are not already doing this, then you could try spacing it out more - eg 1 cup per hour over 12 hours - to avoid overwhelming with a lot at once.
  • if that doesn't help bring down the constant peeing, maybe swap out a bit of the milk for more cheese.
  • if you don't have trouble with starches, try swapping out a bit more of the milk and juice for a bit of spuds or other root veges - denser carbs that still have good minerals (in preference to grains).
  • consider including just a little coconut oil
Drinking to thirst and salting to taste are usually reasonable guidelines. When I experimented with drinking most of my carb calories it made it tricky to distinguish when I was drinking for hunger and when for thirst. It got easier to tell which was which when I went back to eating a bit more solid food.

It also says I'm low in B3. Should I supp niacin?
Peat has been known to recommend small doses of niacinamide - eg 50-100mg - you could take that 3x day if you found it helpful (eg with juice, not on an empty stomach).
 
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mangopop

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Thanks tara!

I'm definitely drinking from hunger at this point, haha

I don't have a problem with starch digestion-wise, I was only avoiding it so I can hopefully lose some weight. Limiting starch is advised for weight loss, right? Or should I just try to limit fat and not worry about starch? I know it's going to take some trial and error and that everyone is different. But I wish I could just know the answers now!
 

tara

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I don't have a problem with starch digestion-wise, I was only avoiding it so I can hopefully lose some weight. Limiting starch is advised for weight loss, right? Or should I just try to limit fat and not worry about starch? I know it's going to take some trial and error and that everyone is different. But I wish I could just know the answers now!

Yes to trial and error and everyone being different. Sorry, but as you seem to know, much as you can surely find people to give you very definite answers, no-one else's answers can be known to be right for you till you've checked them out for yourself. :)

What makes sense around losing weight probably depends on your current state, health and dieting history, what your natural body weight is, and your priorities. For instance, whether you actually are 'overweight' in any real health-related sense, or just the fashion sense of wanting to lose 5 kg to fit current trends, or whether there is a history of chronic or cyclical restrictive dieting that's part of the picture, or any chronic specific nutrient deficiencies or imbalances, or low base metabolism contributing to it.
Sometimes there are trade offs - sometimes losing weight and getting healthier seem to go hand in hand, and sometimes they don't.

Peat does seem to have suggested that starch can have fattening effects.
There are also people here who have found they have lost weight fat while eating lots of starch (and not so much fat).
Personally, I had a period of eating much less starch, and am now eating more starch again. I've been aiming to eat to appetite the whole time, and am more motivated by trying to keep my energy levels up enough to keep functioning than by body weight considerations. Eating a bit more starch - esp. spuds and other roots - as well as fruit and juice - seems to keep my appetite satisfied and my energy levels more stable for longer. As it happens, I lost some weight, but I've changed various other things too, so I can say its possible to lose weight/fat while eating starch, but I can't say that's the cause.

My guess is that if your digestion is happy with starch, then keeping fat lowish makes more difference for most people than strictly avoiding starch.
 

tara

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If you are caring yfor a 20 month old baby, you are working hard and need lots of energy.
If you have cold hands and feet, it sounds like your base metabolism may be running a bit low - you may be running a bit more on stress hormones and a bit less on thyroid than ideal.
 
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mangopop

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Thanks tara. Unfortunately I am a good 40 or 50lbs overweight. It sucks. I weigh 10lbs more than I ever did during my pregnancy, and look pregnant too. I gained most in my belly.

Working on my energy levels is a top priority for me as well, but it would be really great if I could do that while losing weight. At the very least I don't want to gain any more!

I definitely think I'm running on some stress hormones and am also probably carrying around pufa. I'm thinking about getting some cytomel/cynoplus. I'd really appreciate some advice there. Taking thyroid does make me a bit nervous.
 

tara

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Are you managing to get enough sleep (eg 8ish )most nights? That can make a big difference to energy and weight.
Is your baby weaned?

My non-expert opinion on thyroid supps, mostly from reading, and partly influence by Broda Barnes approach, is that it's wise to start small and to make only small increments at intervals of at least 3-4 weeks, monitoring temps regularly to see what effects it has. Barnes approach was to aim form waking body temps in the range 97.8- 98.2 (takes up to 10 mins for thermometer to come up to temp). If you overshoot and take more than you need, the body can make compensations (eg reduce it's own production), and then it may be harder to figure out a good dose. Peat makes the point that while standard dr approach is to only prescribe anything when TSH is extremely high, and then only T4, what many people need is a combination of T3 (the active form) and T4 (gets converted gradually to T3 if all is working well). T3 has a short half life, and a healthy body apparently makes about 3-4 mcg/hour. T4 has a much longer half-life - takes at least 2 weeks to come up to stable blood levels on a steady dose. Peat has suggested nibbling on tiy bits of aT3 tablet several times a day, and taking T4 in the evening to get through the night.
It's not to be taken lightly - overdosing can be dangerous.
If you have lab tests that show your thyroid function is out of normal range, you may be able to get your dr to prescribe you something useful. Still useful for you to understand how it works so you can figure out what is going on and what you are looking for.

The options include natural dessicated thyroid (from pig or cow - depending on where yo are, this may be available without prescription), synthetic T3 and T4 , or if you can't/don't want to get those, going after what you can get from locally available foods - fish head soup, chicken neck stock.
 
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mangopop

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I get 7 to 8 hours a night. Sometimes more if I'm really lucky! I usually wake up a few times in the night. I do take naps while the baby naps sometimes. I wish I could sleep more but she likes to wake up at 6am and it always takes me at least 30 minutes to fall asleep. And yes, she's weaned as of a few months ago.

Super helpful info about the thyroid. Thank you! I have a doc appt to get my thyroid checked in a few weeks, so we'll see what happens there. I live in nyc, which unfortunately is in a state where I can't test my thyroid on my own. My waking temps are pretty much always in the range of 97.1 to 98.4, depending on where I am in my cycle. Not too bad, but I have definite body temp drops throughout the day. I really have gotten a lot better through food/sleep. But I have a feeling I might need a little help over the hump.

If anyone knows a good doctor in the nyc area that would be awesome!
 

tara

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I get 7 to 8 hours a night. Sometimes more if I'm really lucky!
:)
I have a doc appt to get my thyroid checked in a few weeks, so we'll see what happens there.
I'd encourage uyou to get the actual results, not just your drs assessment about them being normal or not. There are threads elsewhere with recommendations about particular tests - I'm not up with those.
 
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mangopop

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Ok, update time

I haven't lost any weight, but it does seem like my metabolism has improved a little. I'm getting slightly higher morning temps and I no longer have moments in the day where my hands/feet/nose are cold. I'm also not peeing every 10 minutes anymore...yay!

However, I have managed to break out in a full-body rash. I don't know what it is...eczema? hives? It's small itchy bumps, not really red or anything, mainly on my scalp/back of neck, ankles, knees, upper thighs, wrists/forearms and elbows. It's so itchy and is driving me crazy. I don't know what to do! I have gotten something like this before, but not to this degree. Bag breathing helps slightly, so does a baking soda paste. Aspirin maybe helps. I finally got some benadryl and am going to try that tonight. If that doesn't work I'm thinking I'll try antibiotics.

Am I allergic to something? I'm mostly eating milk, oj, gelatin, coffee, fruit and maybe an egg or cheese

Please help!
 

tara

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I'm getting slightly higher morning temps and I no longer have moments in the day where my hands/feet/nose are cold. I'm also not peeing every 10 minutes anymore...yay!
:)

However, I have managed to break out in a full-body rash. I don't know what it is...eczema? hives? It's small itchy bumps, not really red or anything, mainly on my scalp/back of neck, ankles, knees, upper thighs, wrists/forearms and elbows. It's so itchy and is driving me crazy. I don't know what to do!

Am I allergic to something? I'm mostly eating milk, oj, gelatin, coffee, fruit and maybe an egg or cheese
Non-expert thoughts:
Could be a food allergy or intolerance reaction, esp. if a particular of this is new for new, or in much larger quantities than before.

Or a reaction to something external in your environment.

Another possibility is that a somewhat higher metabolism, or the shift in diet, is leaving you with a deficiency in something the skin needs to maintain itself well.

For me, I got a crazy-making rash that only abated when I added in a little more zinc, but it could be something else. Have you run it through cronometer or similar to check that all the vitamins and minerals are generously supplied? Have you removed anything from your diet that might have been an important source of nutrition? I got a skin rash a while ago that only resolved when I bumped up a particular micronutrient. I know vit-A, vit-C and zinc and protein deficiencies can all affect skin. No doubt there are others. Looks like you are getting some protein. If the OJ is fresh you are probably getting some vit-C.
 

theLaw

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Ok, update time

I haven't lost any weight, but it does seem like my metabolism has improved a little. I'm getting slightly higher morning temps and I no longer have moments in the day where my hands/feet/nose are cold. I'm also not peeing every 10 minutes anymore...yay!

However, I have managed to break out in a full-body rash. I don't know what it is...eczema? hives? It's small itchy bumps, not really red or anything, mainly on my scalp/back of neck, ankles, knees, upper thighs, wrists/forearms and elbows. It's so itchy and is driving me crazy. I don't know what to do! I have gotten something like this before, but not to this degree. Bag breathing helps slightly, so does a baking soda paste. Aspirin maybe helps. I finally got some benadryl and am going to try that tonight. If that doesn't work I'm thinking I'll try antibiotics.

Am I allergic to something? I'm mostly eating milk, oj, gelatin, coffee, fruit and maybe an egg or cheese

Please help!

If you aren't eating anything to keep the gut sterile, then carrot salad/activated charcoal/antibiotics would be in order......................sounds like possible endotoxin.

Also, might want to take some time to read through the RP Email wiki. Tons of great info, and will answer most of your questions:

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
 
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mangopop

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I eat a carrot everyday with salt between breakfast and lunch.

I'm thinking it's not an allergy as taking benadryl doesn't help at all. It does knock me out though!

I broke down and went to the dermatologist, mainly hoping for some steroid cream. I'm sure this is not Peat-approved, but I'm desperate! I have huge welts on my ankles that are so itchy. Itchy bumps all over my arms, legs and scalp. The doc diagnosed me with either scabies or contact dermatitis. Uh...right.

I also decided to start antibiotics. Is this wreckless? I have some of my husbands' leftover amoxicillin. Just took one.

I'm also going to look into activated charcoal.

I think this is a digestive/gut issue. Either that or my liver has issues. I have had breakouts like this before, just nothing to this level.

One more thing, on cron-o-meter I'm usually lacking in niacin. I got some niacinamide, maybe that'll help a little.

Thanks for the advice, as always
 

tara

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The doc diagnosed me with either scabies or contact dermatitis. Uh...right.
Do you have reason to think it couldn't be one of those?

I'm also going to look into activated charcoal.
That's seems reasonable to try - relatively low risk. Between meals, and not close to any supplements or medicines you want to absorb. Some people get constipation from activated charcoal, so you may need tactics to counter if that happens.
I personally wouldn't do it daily or long term frequently unless there were severe reasons, because it can steal nutrition and maybe has a small downside with risk of persorbed small particles.
 

Lilac

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My 87-year-old mother got a dose of poison ivy, with welts, in early summer that would not clear. It went on and on and on for weeks. We tried all the over-the-counter remedies. I finally said, "Let's think outside the box. Let's try charcoal, and after that a glass of wine." We never got to the alcohol, as the charcoal seemed to start working within a few hours. So maybe try charcoal to see if it can clear your gut of an irritant. Just a thought. Good luck!
 

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