Why It Might Be Better To Temporarily Gain Weight After Diet Improvement

[gaze]

Good another point we agree upon.

I already mentioned I agree with some of the points you brought up in regards to restricting illogically as with phobia.

Theres a difference between a food allergy and physiologic effect of food. I'm sure once the body heals some food intolerances may go away. What I discussed above is not an intolerance, it is a physiologic effect of wheat. Same thing with milk, some people develop acne from it, this is not an intolerance this is a physiologic effect from the hormones in the milk.

you fail to consider however, that some people go from being able to digest those foods with no ill effect to not being able too, and vice verse, showing that it’s not as simple as that

 

[CLASH]

@Kammas
spoken from a master of diffusion

I'm not so sure thats the case. I think its more likely they werent aware of the effects while they were eating them.

 

[Kelj]

If there is a physiologic effect of any kind that bothers someone and they know its cause, it is only sensible to eliminate it.

With energy restoration they may find their more resilient physiology does not react the same way. For freedom's sake, they may want to try it.

 

[YamnayaMommy]

Lol I see I may have triggered you, this wasnt the intention.

Its not semantics as you imply, I think rereading what I said again would be helpful.

It does matter, the fact that you think it doesnt, exemplifies that you didnt understand what I said.

@Kammas
I appreciate your attempt to diffuse the situation but I disagree with a few of the points you brought up.

Okay i read your post more closely and see that your point is that calorie isn’t a useful concept when trying to understand how th body processes different foods.

Yet there are many people who are able to improve their health simply by limiting calories or doing IIFYM. you’ve doubtless heard of the Twinkie professor who ate junk food, protein shakes and multi vitamins for a year and improved an array of health markers.

Stephan guyenet talks about “energy poisoning” to describe how cells are damaged by the presence of fats and sugars in excess of what they need. In his model, calories are a useful concept.

 

[CLASH]

If there is a physiologic effect of any kind that bothers someone and they know its cause, it is only sensible to eliminate it.

With energy restoration they may find their more resilient physiology does not react the same way. For freedom's sake, they may want to try it.

Thats exactly my point.

As the context changes, the effects of a food may change, I dont disagree. I think experimenting is key.

This was my point from the outset.

 

[CLASH]

Okay i read your post more closely and see that your point is that calorie isn’t a useful concept when trying to understand how th body processes different foods.

Yet there are many people who are able to improve their health simply by limiting calories or doing IIFYM. you’ve doubtless heard of the Twinkie professor who ate junk food, protein shakes and multi vitamins for a year and improved an array of health markers.

Stephan guyenet talks about “energy poisoning” to describe how cells are damaged by the presence of fats and sugars in excess of what they need. In his model, calories are a useful concept.

But was it the calories tho that made the difference in those situations? Improving lipid panels and blood glucose measures doesnt show much, they will all usually trend downwards in starvation or caloric restriction. Also, are those panels and thier common interpretations really indicators of health? PUFA makes for great lipid panels.

I never said calories werent useful, Just that they arent a great picture. In your example you can have the same amount of calories of either a combination of sugar and fat, just fat or just sugar; are the effects the same?

 

[Blossom]

This is the truth. To try to suppress my message is not allowing others to hear the full scope of information. Others have their personal story to tell.

I’m sorry you feel this way but your message is not being suppressed. Not everyone agrees of course but having doubts and questioning is healthy.

 

[Kelj]

I’m sorry you feel this way but your message is not being suppressed. Not everyone agrees of course but having doubts and questioning is healthy.

Yes, I agree. It was a comment for the right person at the right time. Not about the arguments. I feel we should consider all sides. I take everyone's comments as something to ponder.

 

[sweetpeat]

But was it the calories tho that made the difference in those situations? Improving lipid panels and blood glucose measures doesnt show much, they will all usually trend downwards in starvation or caloric restriction. Also, are those panels and thier common interpretations really indicators of health? PUFA makes for great lipid panels.

I think in the case of restriction, you will eventually see problems in the thyroid panel, and possibly the sex hormones and cortisol levels. This was the case for me anyway. But all other lab work looked good. This was when I was maintaining my weight on around 1500 calories.

 

[CLASH]

@sweetpeat
My response there was only in a specific context. But that I would tend to agree. Some peoples markers still surprisingly look good even when they are eating so little. I think it brings into question the idea of focusing on and treating a lab value as a standard.

My point overall was not to restrict calories, I was talking about restricting problematic foods while eating enough calories. Problematic foods such as seed oils, fish oils, processed refined foods with questionable additives etc.

 

[sweetpeat]

@sweetpeat
My response there was only in a specific context. But that I would tend to agree. Some peoples markers still surprisingly look good even when they are eating so little. I think it brings into question the idea of focusing on and treating a lab value as a standard.

My point overall was not to restrict calories, I was talking about restricting problematic foods while eating enough calories. Problematic foods such as seed oils, fish oils, processed refined foods with questionable additives etc.

Yeah I got that. I was mostly bringing it up for the folks at home as an example of what labs might look like when someone is restricting. Many people come to the forum looking for help with low energy and thyroid issues and often seem to not be eating enough.

Does it not make sense to you that for someone such as myself (who was maintaining by under eating) that as soon as they start eating more they will gain weight? No matter what types of foods?

 

[mbachiu]

Yeah I got that. I was mostly bringing it up for the folks at home as an example of what labs might look like when someone is restricting. Many people come to the forum looking for help with low energy and thyroid issues and often seem to not be eating enough.

Does it not make sense to you that for someone such as myself (who was maintaining by under eating) that as soon as they start eating more they will gain weight? No matter what types of foods?

This is my experience too, @sweetpeat

 

[ecstatichamster]

The only time in my life when I restricted calories was when I was doing the CR a la Roy Walford and I got to 1300 calories a day for a year or two, and weighed I think around 145.

My set weight would be around 165 today or perhaps 175 being generous. Today I weighed 205. I would be okay at 185 probably.

I am not willing to gain more weight in the belief that I will reach a point where I will lose it. It is too much of a leap of faith and I don’t think it applies to me because I’ve had a normal relationship with food for most of my life.

I don’t count calories today.

I have rarely done so.

I think the eating disorder thing applies to people who were really abusing their bodies. I was not abusing mine.

To lose fat, I’m trying to modestly increase my sugar. I will continue doing near zero starch. I won’t force eat anything but will eat when I’m hungry, as I have been doing.

I’ll take a bit more T3 again to raise my temperatures. I think a Wilson reset again will be useful. I think I haven’t cracked the metabolic low that I’m still in, albeit a bit higher than the old days. I’m posting on another thread that I’m starting why I am at a metabolic low, as I think I figured it out.

For me, breathing has been 100 time more important than eating. CO2 levels are they key to health and longevity. I have found that people who reduce breathing lose fat without much effort. I am not obese and an argument can be made that I am an ideal weight now, even though I “should” be a bit thinner. My BMI is around 27.

Point of this ramble is this: eating disorder stuff doesn’t apply to me.

 

[CLASH]

@sweetpeat
In some cases, yes I do think people will gain some weight to start depending on thier context, but I dont think its going to be 40-50-100lbs of EXCESS weight (by excess weight I mean added fat, if someone is emaciated or underweight and they start to eat, I think gaining a large amount of bodyweight is neccesary, but this isnt just fat) and I dont think the excess weight should be there for years or even a year.

I think the group most likely to deal with an increase fat gain that is difficult to get off is older women. However, with a solid diet, in many cases, I think that can be largely mitigated. I have helped a few women that I was close to (I'm not a health coach or a medical practitioner so it was purely through off hand comments and suggestions when they asked me), recover from absurd and restrictive diets (usually some form of vegetarianism or veganism) and in most of the cases they actually lost weight initially, particularly from thier abdomen. They did this while increasing food and calories in general. To be fair these women were all on the younger side. The few older women I have offered my point of view to (when asked), often dismiss it on the basis that "they will get fat" or they agree but just continue thier old habits regardless.

As for how I got these people to lose weight while they ate more, all i did was:
1) replace starch with sugar but the sugar came entirely from fruit and 100% juice that was low in fodmaps, had a good fructose to glucose ratio and agreed with thier digestion (as per thier assessment)
2) made sure they ate enough protein from meat, seafood, eggs and very lean fowl
3) made sure they ate enough fat from tallow, coconut oil, butter, chocolate and/ or cocoa butter. Some had issues with coconut oil irritating thier intestine, so they dropped it. Some had issue with butter causing acne or dandruff or hairloss if eaten in large quantities so they dropped it or reduced it to a manageable level.
4) made sure they ate enough fiber from carrots and whole fruit. Mushrooms, if they agreed with them.
5) later once they stabilized, if they wanted to they added in tubers, white rice and dairy as experiments to see how they felt with these foods. If they felt good with the foods then they kept them, if not then they dropped them
6) added in some junk food for thier periods, once they stabilized. The junk food was high quality chocolate, high quality ice cream, high quality chips, high quality cookies. By high quality I mean the ingredients where pure ingredients such as for the chips: potatoes, coconut oil and salt. The cookies: rice flour, butter, eggs, sugar, chocolate. The ice cream: vanilla, cream, eggs, sugar, salt, milk. The chocolate: sugar, chocolate liquor, cocoa powder. Simple ingredients, no fillers, no problematic foods (based on thier assessment of thier reaction to said foods) and no PUFA or other garbage ingredients. These foods are how "junk food" used to be made.

Overall its not rocket science (well atleast not now, when i was figuring it out for myself over the past 5 years, it was lol). Eat enough food, of the least irritating, most easily digestible, most nutrient dense to start. Stabilize on this template for a while. Then add in different foods one at a time to see how you react, keep what works, discard what doesnt. Gradually increase calories overtime as you feel you need (many people have issues eating enough to start, also once people start eating real foods instead of garbage they find that the ravenous hunger dissipates. Also when people start eating enough fat, enough sugar, enough salt and enough protein thier cravings go away. If you eat sugar all day long from fruit, salt your food to taste, add as much fats as you want, theres no reason to crave).

 

[mbachiu]

The only time in my life when I restricted calories was when I was doing the CR a la Roy Walford and I got to 1300 calories a day for a year or two, and weighed I think around 145.

My set weight would be around 165 today or perhaps 175 being generous. Today I weighed 205. I would be okay at 185 probably.

I am not willing to gain more weight in the belief that I will reach a point where I will lose it. It is too much of a leap of faith and I don’t think it applies to me because I’ve had a normal relationship with food for most of my life.

I don’t count calories today.

I have rarely done so.

I think the eating disorder thing applies to people who were really abusing their bodies. I was not abusing mine.

To lose fat, I’m trying to modestly increase my sugar. I will continue doing near zero starch. I won’t force eat anything but will eat when I’m hungry, as I have been doing.

I’ll take a bit more T3 again to raise my temperatures. I think a Wilson reset again will be useful. I think I haven’t cracked the metabolic low that I’m still in, albeit a bit higher than the old days. I’m posting on another thread that I’m starting why I am at a metabolic low, as I think I figured it out.

For me, breathing has been 100 time more important than eating. CO2 levels are they key to health and longevity. I have found that people who reduce breathing lose fat without much effort. I am not obese and an argument can be made that I am an ideal weight now, even though I “should” be a bit thinner. My BMI is around 27.

Point of this ramble is this: eating disorder stuff doesn’t apply to me.

I would be very interested in reading about what you’re doing, if you’re willing to share which thread you are documenting this...

 

[ecstatichamster]

I would be very interested in reading about what you’re doing, if you’re willing to share which thread you are documenting this...

I think I’ll continue with it on my T3 thread
Permanently Fixing Hypothyroid Through Short Term T3

 

[mbachiu]

I think I’ll continue with it on my T3 thread
Permanently Fixing Hypothyroid Through Short Term T3

Thank you :) I look forward to reading!

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thank you :) I look forward to reading!

Thank you!

 

[ecstatichamster]

@sweetpeat
In some cases, yes I do think people will gain some weight to start depending on thier context, but I dont think its going to be 40-50-100lbs of EXCESS weight (by excess weight I mean added fat, if someone is emaciated or underweight and they start to eat, I think gaining a large amount of bodyweight is neccesary, but this isnt just fat) and I dont think the excess weight should be there for years or even a year.

I think the group most likely to deal with an increase fat gain that is difficult to get off is older women. However, with a solid diet, in many cases, I think that can be largely mitigated. I have helped a few women that I was close to (I'm not a health coach or a medical practitioner so it was purely through off hand comments and suggestions when they asked me), recover from absurd and restrictive diets (usually some form of vegetarianism or veganism) and in most of the cases they actually lost weight initially, particularly from thier abdomen. They did this while increasing food and calories in general. To be fair these women were all on the younger side. The few older women I have offered my point of view to (when asked), often dismiss it on the basis that "they will get fat" or they agree but just continue thier old habits regardless.

As for how I got these people to lose weight while they ate more, all i did was:
1) replace starch with sugar but the sugar came entirely from fruit and 100% juice that was low in fodmaps, had a good fructose to glucose ratio and agreed with thier digestion (as per thier assessment)
2) made sure they ate enough protein from meat, seafood, eggs and very lean fowl
3) made sure they ate enough fat from tallow, coconut oil, butter, chocolate and/ or cocoa butter. Some had issues with coconut oil irritating thier intestine, so they dropped it. Some had issue with butter causing acne or dandruff or hairloss if eaten in large quantities so they dropped it or reduced it to a manageable level.
4) made sure they ate enough fiber from carrots and whole fruit. Mushrooms, if they agreed with them.
5) later once they stabilized, if they wanted to they added in tubers, white rice and dairy as experiments to see how they felt with these foods. If they felt good with the foods then they kept them, if not then they dropped them
6) added in some junk food for thier periods, once they stabilized. The junk food was high quality chocolate, high quality ice cream, high quality chips, high quality cookies. By high quality I mean the ingredients where pure ingredients such as for the chips: potatoes, coconut oil and salt. The cookies: rice flour, butter, eggs, sugar, chocolate. The ice cream: vanilla, cream, eggs, sugar, salt, milk. The chocolate: sugar, chocolate liquor, cocoa powder. Simple ingredients, no fillers, no problematic foods (based on thier assessment of thier reaction to said foods) and no PUFA or other garbage ingredients. These foods are how "junk food" used to be made.

Overall its not rocket science (well atleast not now, when i was figuring it out for myself over the past 5 years, it was lol). Eat enough food, of the least irritating, most easily digestible, most nutrient dense to start. Stabilize on this template for a while. Then add in different foods one at a time to see how you react, keep what works, discard what doesnt. Gradually increase calories overtime as you feel you need (many people have issues eating enough to start, also once people start eating real foods instead of garbage they find that the ravenous hunger dissipates. Also when people start eating enough fat, enough sugar, enough salt and enough protein thier cravings go away. If you eat sugar all day long from fruit, salt your food to taste, add as much fats as you want, theres no reason to crave).

This is awesome. What did you recommend for calcium so it was greater than phosphorus in this diet, which is very low in calcium and high in phosphorus? Was it purely through supplementation?

 

[Ingenol]

Also very interested in the calcium. How many calories did you recommend they eat?