Abdominal Fat Is A Phase Folliwing The End Of Calorie Restriction

[Lollipop2]

ah thank you! re: the thyroid, yes I took NDT from forefront health and then tyromix from idealabs, totalling about 6 months. I gave it up about two weeks into my re-feeding as I was showing all the symptoms of being hyperthyroid (I was so hot I actually couldn't bear it and had a racing heart after walking across the room). It was only after reading a thread on here that I put two and two together - Tooth Decay On RP Diets - I Think Thyroid Is The Culprit this was not the actual thread but one very similar. I had the same problems - two teeth that seemed to have disintegrated and I spent 5 hours at the dentist, he had to fill cavities at the gum line on 80% of my teeth - in the end he said he wouldn't charge me because it was so ridiculous how many fillings he had done.

Incidentally, I just remembered that when I was at the dentist that time, I had a chat with a nutritionist working at the same practice and she told me that if you test hypothyroid but are antigen negative you should not supplement with thyroid and use diet/rest to remedy the hypo situation instead. If you are antigen negative this means your body is not attacking your own thyroid (as in Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis) but you are going through a temporary dip in thyroid health which will resolve itself naturally if you give the body what it needs to heal. This may also tie in with the fact that when I tested hypo in the first place, my doctor didn't even think it was a problem.

Suffice to say *I* self-medicated with thyroid because I panicked and thought I would be able to fix the problem myself.

Thank you for this!

 

[Vinny]

ah thank you! re: the thyroid, yes I took NDT from forefront health and then tyromix from idealabs, totalling about 6 months. I gave it up about two weeks into my re-feeding as I was showing all the symptoms of being hyperthyroid (I was so hot I actually couldn't bear it and had a racing heart after walking across the room). It was only after reading a thread on here that I put two and two together - Tooth Decay On RP Diets - I Think Thyroid Is The Culprit this was not the actual thread but one very similar. I had the same problems - two teeth that seemed to have disintegrated and I spent 5 hours at the dentist, he had to fill cavities at the gum line on 80% of my teeth - in the end he said he wouldn't charge me because it was so ridiculous how many fillings he had done.

I think you`re not the only one here mentioning teeth decay after thyroid medication.

 

[Vinny]

Hi there Tilly, I know this is slightly late, but I am replying to you in the hope that you may pick it up - I would love to know how you are doing now?

My story is the same - I was hanging around on this forum for about a year but feeling more and more desperate, getting more and more restricted with my food choices, more and more confused, spending hundreds on supplements etc. and then I came across Kelj's posts - the main one here Why It Might Be Better To Temporarily Gain Weight After Diet Improvement which I read over and over again like you.

It also made me finally face up to the fact that I have had orthorexia (with bouts of anorexia) for about 30 years. I read that post on March 10th 2022 and it has been nearly 13 months since then. In those 13 months I have been re-feeding aggressively and resting completely i.e. zero exercise. Wonderful things have happened to me. Even though I gained weight (about 12 kilos) following a peat-inspired diet, since eating according to Kelj's sources (commonly known as eating disorder recovery - it's not a 'diet') I gained another 26 kilos very rapidly. I have now stopped gaining weight even though I eat to satiety every single day and never restrict my food intake. This is never less than 2500 calories a day and at the beginning was as much as 5,000.

If you are confused about what to eat, the secret is to eat exactly what you are craving - Kelj talks more about this in her posts. And eat exactly the amount you crave. This includes every single type of food you want - the idea here is to get over your fear of certain foods by eating them. I am doing amazingly well eating whatever I choose. This doesn't mean to say I eat junk food every day but if I want a pizza or cheese burger then I always allow myself to eat it. In other words I eat completely normally.

Yes, the fear of weight gain is HUGE - in the beginning this is a very very scary process to go through but with every day that passed and with all the health benefits I gained, I came to believe that this weight gain was ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL if I was going to allow my body to heal itself - and this is the whole point; the body is totally capable of healing itself without our intervention - apart from adequate nourishment and total rest.

*Some of the healing I have done so far = completely sorted out my body temperature and pulse rate within a few weeks of starting to re-feed - all totally normal now (from in the past doing everything I could to try and raise them and not succeeding), I am now totally warm in lightweight clothes outside in the snow, menopausal symptoms disappeared, allergic responses vastly improving, food intolerances disappeared, bone health sorted - my pelvis had dislocated, my nail beds became longer - the moons showing again, digestion vastly improving, gallbladder pains disappearing, liver spots (cherry angiomas) receding, fungal infections cleared up, sleep totally restored, teeth getting very strong (they were destroyed after 6 months of taking thyroid), my eyes are going green again like they were when I was younger and I have grown 1 inch taller in height over the last 12 months.

The most important thing to say is that I am completely and overwhelmingly HAPPY. I no longer spend all my spare time researching alternative cures for my health problems, I eat whatever I want, whenever I want (absolutely no fasting allowed EVER), take zero supplements and I am no longer frightened of gaining weight at all. I spend time really loving all the food I eat, I also enjoy restaurant food; able to choose whatever I want from the menu with total freedom and am totally relaxed with the people I eat out with. My anxiety levels around food and most other things are now coming down to zero. Believe me, that feels good!

Whatever you do, please do not give up on this! You are so nearly there. It is totally possible to restore yourself back to excellent health if you trust in the process and allow your body the time it needs to heal (two years on average). It wants to bring you back to health!!! I cannot say that it has been easy, for many months I suffered with severe bloating, exhaustion, digestive issues and unwanted emotions as part of the healing process and during this time had to eat to maximum satiety every day even though sometimes it was the last thing I wanted to do. I had to get over my fear of appearing in public with an enormous and rotund abdomen (like pregnant-looking at 53 years old lol), not being able to tie my shoelaces and throwing out clothes that no longer fit me (95% of my wardrobe). All this suffering builds up amazing resilience however and if I had not learnt why these things were happening and that they were necessary as part of the healing process, I would have 100% started restricting again and been back to square one.

I would not have been able to get through the process without the help of these amazing people: Tabitha Farrar, Becky Freestone, Elisa (follow the intuition) and Kayla Rose Kotecki - all of them can be found on youtube, many of them have books and podcasts. I made sure that I watched at least one youtube video a day, especially when my morale was particularly low (it often was). I came back to this and Kelj's other posts regularly and I hope one day she may return to this forum so I can say a huge thank you to her for inspiring me and finally helping me to sort my life out.

I am so happy to say that although I am not yet completely restored, I am coming out the other side and at last I can see the light at the end of tunnel. I believe that this past year of discomfort and uncertainty will def. stand me in good stead for the rest of my life, which I hope to live balanced and free.

For other people reading this:

If you have questions about eating PUFAs etc. all of this has been covered in this and Kelj's other posts here, she has a lot of information on them:

Fat Is An Organ

Biochemistry of adipose tissue: an endocrine organ It is time we start respecting our fat. Fat cells are not a mere repository for excess energy. The above paper has this to say: "Adipose tissue is no longer considered to be an inert tissue that stores fat. This tissue is capable of expanding...

raypeatforum.com

Why It Might Be Better To Temporarily Gain Weight After Diet Improvement

I have given my experience here of incorporating many Ray Peat suggestions and generally eating enough calories. I gained weight, went through some bad symptoms, but persisted because I believed the science said those consequences were normal. I expected them. I believed the science pointed to...

raypeatforum.com

After this, there is only so much research you can do until you get to the point where you just have to take action. Once that action has been started the only other thing to do is persist until you have restored your health. It is that simple, I am really not kidding. It may seem crazy to move in completely the opposite direction from what everyone else is doing i.e. calorie restriction (often in the form of healthier eating) and more exercise but I know that people on this forum are an enlightened bunch and will generally do whatever it takes to get the results they want, even if those things seem to oppose all the hard-won knowledge they have already accrued. All I can say is that you just gotta have a little faith, take the plunge and go for it - I am SO SO very glad I did!

And don't think that because you have not come up with a label of 'orthorexic' or 'anorexic' for yourself this whole thread does not apply to you, most people at some stage in their life have restricted their food intake for whatever reason and if not their food intake, then their food choices. That is what leads to all the problems in the first place. It took me 30 years before I could admit to myself that I was indeed one of those people, please don't leave it that long !!!

I hope you are in a good place right now Tilly, much love.

Very glad for you. I wish I had the guts to try. Deep inside I know we are supposed to eat till satiety and do not worry about fat gain, but I can`t prove it scientifically. One day may be.....

 

[Blossom]

Very glad for you. I wish I had the guts to try. Deep inside I know we are supposed to eat till satiety and do not worry about fat gain, but I can`t prove it scientifically. One day may be.....

:)

 

[pushkin]

Very glad for you. I wish I had the guts to try. Deep inside I know we are supposed to eat till satiety and do not worry about fat gain, but I can`t prove it scientifically. One day may be.....

It's scary for sure. Psychologically at the beginning, the huge weight gain was definitely the thing that made me think of turning back and I would be lying if I said I didn't have any panic attacks about it, but the wonderful thing is that if you just get on with the task of eating a lot more, no matter what negative things your brain tells you, the better your brain starts to function and the more contented you feel about the whole process. Really honestly, after a couple of months I was more prepared to think of the positives, almost as if my nourished brain insulated me from the anxiety of doing it. It was a catch 22 situation: my brain in a starved state just could not comprehend or deal with the idea of letting go and just eating to complete fullness and not exercising until I started eating a lot more, then my nourished brain said 'yeah whatever, life's for living after all'.

And it is soooo good to just forget about science for once. I do not miss all of the constant researching I used to do.

and re your comment on tooth decay (sorry I forgot how to insert a previous quote) I am actually very convinced of the connection between thyroid and tooth decay! Of course it's anecdotal and not based on science, but that is good enough evidence for me to not play around with that (or actually any other) supplement again.

 

[LadyRae]

It's scary for sure. Psychologically at the beginning, the huge weight gain was definitely the thing that made me think of turning back and I would be lying if I said I didn't have any panic attacks about it, but the wonderful thing is that if you just get on with the task of eating a lot more, no matter what negative things your brain tells you, the better your brain starts to function and the more contented you feel about the whole process. Really honestly, after a couple of months I was more prepared to think of the positives, almost as if my nourished brain insulated me from the anxiety of doing it. It was a catch 22 situation: my brain in a starved state just could not comprehend or deal with the idea of letting go and just eating to complete fullness and not exercising until I started eating a lot more, then my nourished brain said 'yeah whatever, life's for living after all'.

And it is soooo good to just forget about science for once. I do not miss all of the constant researching I used to do.

and re your comment on tooth decay (sorry I forgot how to insert a previous quote) I am actually very convinced of the connection between thyroid and tooth decay! Of course it's anecdotal and not based on science, but that is good enough evidence for me to not play around with that (or actually any other) supplement again.

So you've put on 38 kilos? (12+26 as you stated above)

I'm really glad you're happy now but I think that your message is not a healthy one at all. In fact there is a lot in this entire thread that is just garbage. Body positivity crap. Hopefully most people can see through this.

 

[Jonk]

So you've put on 38 kilos? (12+26 as you stated above)

I'm really glad you're happy now but I think that your message is not a healthy one at all. In fact there is a lot in this entire thread that is just garbage. Body positivity crap. Hopefully most people can see through this.

Agree. While cravings are very important to listen to, they can certainly be misguided.

 

[Momma]

So you've put on 38 kilos? (12+26 as you stated above)

I'm really glad you're happy now but I think that your message is not a healthy one at all. In fact there is a lot in this entire thread that is just garbage. Body positivity crap. Hopefully most people can see through this.

She is in recovery. A year in. She is still in recovery. Encouragement, celebration and congratulations are in order; not misunderstandings and criticism.

 

[LadyRae]

She is in recovery. A year in. She is still in recovery. Encouragement, celebration and congratulations are in order; not misunderstandings and criticism.

Oh, you again. Recovery???



Have fun with that!

 

[Momma]

Oh, you again. Recovery???



Have fun with that!

It’s me. Hi.
Yes, recovery. Would be nice to seek understanding if pushkin agrees or disagrees.

 

[Peatress]

It’s understandable for people who have never known or met a true anorexic to not understand the all consuming nature of the illness. It is devastating and very difficult to overcome. I’ve known a few anorexics. Their suffering is unimaginable for most people. To overcome this monster of an illness is a miracle. One anorexic I knew recovered without gaining massive amount of weight but I also knew another woman who did gain a lot. I can’t say what is best but it’s not easy to let go of the desire to starve. If Tilly does come back to the forum I hope she is not put off.

 

[LadyRae]

For heaven's sake, of course severe anorexics need to gain weight to recover but that is not the main point of this thread NOR is it the concern of 99% of people within this forum looking to heal from a variety of metabolic issues.

Once again I would like to point out that this thread advocates eating lots and lots in order to heal and I just don't think that that is appropriate for most people.

 

[Lollipop2]

So you've put on 38 kilos? (12+26 as you stated above)

I'm really glad you're happy now but I think that your message is not a healthy one at all. In fact there is a lot in this entire thread that is just garbage. Body positivity crap. Hopefully most people can see through this.

So much for putting yourself in someone’s place to see from their perspective. Remember you do not need to make someone “wrong” for you to be “right”.

 

[Lollipop2]

It’s understandable for people who have never known or met a true anorexic to not understand the all consuming nature of the illness. It is devastating and very difficult to overcome. I’ve known a few anorexics. Their suffering is unimaginable for most people. To overcome this monster of an illness is a miracle. One anorexic I knew recovered without gaining massive amount of weight but I also knew another woman who did gain a lot. I can’t say what is best but it’s not easy to let go of the desire to starve. If Tilly does come back to the forum I hope she is not put off.

I also had a friend that almost died from anorexia. I also think there are multiple stages or levels of anorexia. Thank you for making this point.

I think we walk a very thin razor blade edge when we pass out flippant judgement of another without walking in their shoes or having stopped to understand a behavior or attitude from their perspective. To be honest we on the forum are guilty of this all day long.

We are all Divine souls on a journey through life and we must each one of us walk our own path and learn about the experiences that crossed our path. That path is certainly different for each person.

 

[Vinny]

It's scary for sure. Psychologically at the beginning, the huge weight gain was definitely the thing that made me think of turning back and I would be lying if I said I didn't have any panic attacks about it, but the wonderful thing is that if you just get on with the task of eating a lot more, no matter what negative things your brain tells you, the better your brain starts to function and the more contented you feel about the whole process. Really honestly, after a couple of months I was more prepared to think of the positives, almost as if my nourished brain insulated me from the anxiety of doing it. It was a catch 22 situation: my brain in a starved state just could not comprehend or deal with the idea of letting go and just eating to complete fullness and not exercising until I started eating a lot more, then my nourished brain said 'yeah whatever, life's for living after all'.

And it is soooo good to just forget about science for once. I do not miss all of the constant researching I used to do.

and re your comment on tooth decay (sorry I forgot how to insert a previous quote) I am actually very convinced of the connection between thyroid and tooth decay! Of course it's anecdotal and not based on science, but that is good enough evidence for me to not play around with that (or actually any other) supplement again.

Thank you.
I`ll go through this whole thread again and try to make something of it.
I`m more willing to try now than when the thread started, especially after your testimonials, but circumstances do not predispose. I`ve just found, after almost a year and a half of looking, my dream job (at least I hope so) and it`s not home office. I`ll meet with people on a daily bases and must be more or less presentable. I`m currently 32.2 BMI, which is already quite a lot, and imagining it will go more up without any doubt, it makes me shake. No, no one would dare to fire me if I become a fat ball, but I`m going to feel extremely uncomfortable for myself. Perhaps, if I had a chance to retreat somewhere for a couple of years, or just if I had found a home office job, I`d let it go, but that`s not going to be possible for the next 2-3 years at least. So, I must think of something in the middle, if it exists. Very, very confused right now....

I totally agree about exercises. They are a very small part of the equation for most folks. Besides, sport never, never ever gave me any benefits except sored muscles, fatigue and depression. Not my Dao definitely.
What works to some extend and gets me out of trouble, is going carnivore. But you know, carnivore is not a lifelong option for many, many reasons....
The irony is, that for my age, I`m in a pretty decent state of health, and all the analyses I did are very good or supreme. But I put fat from inhaling air only ....
Generally, I`m convinced to the bone marrow, that fat gain, for the majority of people, is way way more complicated issue than most think. But I can`t prove it yet....
Anyway, we`ll see. I`ll probably order some DNP....

 

[pushkin]

Hi to everyone who has commented above - I totally get where you are all coming from. I have been there and I am with all of you. I am not out to convince anyone of anything, I just wanted to record my experiences here in case anyone stumbled upon Kelj's posts like I did and finally realised that the searching may finally be over.

I spent twenty years working in the fashion industry out front and behind the scenes. My body conformed to the industry standard and nothing, absolutely nothing until a year ago would have convinced me that what I am doing now is a good thing. I agree with the anorexia comments - it is a mental disease and truly devastating for all involved. I now believe my father had anorexia for most of his life and died young of liver failure. No one recognised what he was going through, even as he was dying, no health practitioner had an inkling of what was going on. For anyone reading this who believes they have anorexia, they should get professional help ASAP.

What is more relevant here is orthorexia. It may not be the amount of food you are restricting but the restriction in your choice of food that takes its toll. All I can say is that a year ago, I came to the point where I was truly and totally fed up with obsessing about what I should or should not be eating. I'd been doing it for 30 years and I was no healthier than when I started (and certainly less healthy in some areas of my life). You name a diet, I've been on it, you name a supplement, I've tried it. I was utterly DOG-TIRED of all of it. I was sick of going out and not eating what everyone else was eating, packing my own food, not going to certain restaurants etc. Sick of being 'good' then having an uncontrollable binge on the worst crap I could find, then beating myself up for it, then doubling down the next day. My poor body. And TBQH I was sick of spending all my time looking for just ONE more thing that would be the answer to all my problems. I was at the point where I could not spend any more money on supplements or gadgets and I was having trouble freeing up space in my head to concentrate on my work and family life.

Much of the weight that is put on when you start re-feeding is water-weight - I read that fat cannot accumulate on the body that quickly. Much of the digestion troubles you go through are your body getting used to new foods again after long periods of eating 'clean', fasting or eating from a certain food group only. The exhaustion you experience is your body signalling to you to stop exercising so it can finally get down to the task of healing. Unfortunately in our image/health-conscious world, these 'symptoms' are often confused with 'you cannot control your appetite, you eat only junk food and you are lazy'. If I am being totally honest with myself, because I was so obsessed with getting back the health I had when I was younger, I was also caught up in the 'you can only be healthy if you look a certain way' attitude (which was another way of showing people that I was 100% in control of myself), I did not understand the body positivity movement or the 'health at any size' concept.

Today, I have never felt better in my life, I have grown 1 inch taller in a year. And yes, I am 38 kilos (as scary as that sounds) heavier than the weight I used to keep myself at in order to be 'healthy' - which I now see was chronically, dangerously underweight, even though it was totally on trend. I do not expect or really want to stay at this weight for the rest of my life, I actually want my waist back but I know that I will never again restrict to get to a weight/shape the magazines/instagram tells me I should be at to feel my best - because it is a lie. If you can look deeply enough and ignore the fads that go in and out of fashion and the tortuous obsession with macros, micros, endless analysis of new scientific papers, etc. everything points towards the fact that if you eat to complete satiety at every meal with the foods you truly want to eat (because you love them) and do not get obsessed with over-exercise, your body knows exactly what to do to regain health and perfect balance for the rest of its life, whatever size that may be - there are many sizes and shapes in this world. Sometimes we just have to get over ourselves and that can often be the hardest thing. Letting go into uncertainty and testing out our heart's courage in the face of all the naysayers can be a great and healing balm in itself - whatever the outcome.

I have so much more now than I ever did. I am hot, strong and totally happy, when a crisis happens I am much better prepared to deal with it and I have space in my brain to get the projects I want to get done finished for the first time in my life. And I adore food, every single morsel that I put in my mouth is like an explosion of incredible taste I have never experienced before. It may sound like I am uncontrollably stuffing my face but I am now eating in a totally normal way with zero food obsession or fear. Dare I say it, I am fun to be with again.

When we get caught up in our own dogmatic thinking and rules (which a starved brain tends to be attracted to) we have to be careful about labelling something as unhealthy or healthy. I sometimes have a youtube video come up on my feed saying something like: 'what I eat in a day to stay lean' etc. and I know now that no matter how tempting it is to click on it and start eating that way 'cos they look incredible - it will never trump the wisdom my body possesses to get me back into a state of complete health all by itself. @Kelj did it, the other people I mentioned did it and I am doing it. All it takes is a letting go of control and 100% faith that eventually, if we persist for long enough, it will happen.

 

[Lollipop2]

Hi to everyone who has commented above - I totally get where you are all coming from. I have been there and I am with all of you. I am not out to convince anyone of anything, I just wanted to record my experiences here in case anyone stumbled upon Kelj's posts like I did and finally realised that the searching may finally be over.

I spent twenty years working in the fashion industry out front and behind the scenes. My body conformed to the industry standard and nothing, absolutely nothing until a year ago would have convinced me that what I am doing now is a good thing. I agree with the anorexia comments - it is a mental disease and truly devastating for all involved. I now believe my father had anorexia for most of his life and died young of liver failure. No one recognised what he was going through, even as he was dying, no health practitioner had an inkling of what was going on. For anyone reading this who believes they have anorexia, they should get professional help ASAP.

What is more relevant here is orthorexia. It may not be the amount of food you are restricting but the restriction in your choice of food that takes its toll. All I can say is that a year ago, I came to the point where I was truly and totally fed up with obsessing about what I should or should not be eating. I'd been doing it for 30 years and I was no healthier than when I started (and certainly less healthy in some areas of my life). You name a diet, I've been on it, you name a supplement, I've tried it. I was utterly DOG-TIRED of all of it. I was sick of going out and not eating what everyone else was eating, packing my own food, not going to certain restaurants etc. Sick of being 'good' then having an uncontrollable binge on the worst crap I could find, then beating myself up for it, then doubling down the next day. My poor body. And TBQH I was sick of spending all my time looking for just ONE more thing that would be the answer to all my problems. I was at the point where I could not spend any more money on supplements or gadgets and I was having trouble freeing up space in my head to concentrate on my work and family life.

Much of the weight that is put on when you start re-feeding is water-weight - I read that fat cannot accumulate on the body that quickly. Much of the digestion troubles you go through are your body getting used to new foods again after long periods of eating 'clean', fasting or eating from a certain food group only. The exhaustion you experience is your body signalling to you to stop exercising so it can finally get down to the task of healing. Unfortunately in our image/health-conscious world, these 'symptoms' are often confused with 'you cannot control your appetite, you eat only junk food and you are lazy'. If I am being totally honest with myself, because I was so obsessed with getting back the health I had when I was younger, I was also caught up in the 'you can only be healthy if you look a certain way' attitude (which was another way of showing people that I was 100% in control of myself), I did not understand the body positivity movement or the 'health at any size' concept.

Today, I have never felt better in my life, I have grown 1 inch taller in a year. And yes, I am 38 kilos (as scary as that sounds) heavier than the weight I used to keep myself at in order to be 'healthy' - which I now see was chronically, dangerously underweight, even though it was totally on trend. I do not expect or really want to stay at this weight for the rest of my life, I actually want my waist back but I know that I will never again restrict to get to a weight/shape the magazines/instagram tells me I should be at to feel my best - because it is a lie. If you can look deeply enough and ignore the fads that go in and out of fashion and the tortuous obsession with macros, micros, endless analysis of new scientific papers, etc. everything points towards the fact that if you eat to complete satiety at every meal with the foods you truly want to eat (because you love them) and do not get obsessed with over-exercise, your body knows exactly what to do to regain health and perfect balance for the rest of its life, whatever size that may be - there are many sizes and shapes in this world. Sometimes we just have to get over ourselves and that can often be the hardest thing. Letting go into uncertainty and testing out our heart's courage in the face of all the naysayers can be a great and healing balm in itself - whatever the outcome.

I have so much more now than I ever did. I am hot, strong and totally happy, when a crisis happens I am much better prepared to deal with it and I have space in my brain to get the projects I want to get done finished for the first time in my life. And I adore food, every single morsel that I put in my mouth is like an explosion of incredible taste I have never experienced before. It may sound like I am uncontrollably stuffing my face but I am now eating in a totally normal way with zero food obsession or fear. Dare I say it, I am fun to be with again.

When we get caught up in our own dogmatic thinking and rules (which a starved brain tends to be attracted to) we have to be careful about labelling something as unhealthy or healthy. I sometimes have a youtube video come up on my feed saying something like: 'what I eat in a day to stay lean' etc. and I know now that no matter how tempting it is to click on it and start eating that way 'cos they look incredible - it will never trump the wisdom my body possesses to get me back into a state of complete health all by itself. @Kelj did it, the other people I mentioned did it and I am doing it. All it takes is a letting go of control and 100% faith that eventually, if we persist for long enough, it will happen.

Another balanced, intelligent, honest, mature, and beautiful post. Thank you for this.

 

[Momma]

For heaven's sake, of course severe anorexics need to gain weight to recover but that is not the main point of this thread NOR is it the concern of 99% of people within this forum looking to heal from a variety of metabolic issues.

Once again I would like to point out that this thread advocates eating lots and lots in order to heal and I just don't think that that is appropriate for most people.

Pushkin was addressing Tilly J. Tilly J was anorexic for 40 years.

Hi to everyone who has commented above - I totally get where you are all coming from. I have been there and I am with all of you. I am not out to convince anyone of anything, I just wanted to record my experiences here in case anyone stumbled upon Kelj's posts like I did and finally realised that the searching may finally be over.

I spent twenty years working in the fashion industry out front and behind the scenes. My body conformed to the industry standard and nothing, absolutely nothing until a year ago would have convinced me that what I am doing now is a good thing. I agree with the anorexia comments - it is a mental disease and truly devastating for all involved. I now believe my father had anorexia for most of his life and died young of liver failure. No one recognised what he was going through, even as he was dying, no health practitioner had an inkling of what was going on. For anyone reading this who believes they have anorexia, they should get professional help ASAP.

What is more relevant here is orthorexia. It may not be the amount of food you are restricting but the restriction in your choice of food that takes its toll. All I can say is that a year ago, I came to the point where I was truly and totally fed up with obsessing about what I should or should not be eating. I'd been doing it for 30 years and I was no healthier than when I started (and certainly less healthy in some areas of my life). You name a diet, I've been on it, you name a supplement, I've tried it. I was utterly DOG-TIRED of all of it. I was sick of going out and not eating what everyone else was eating, packing my own food, not going to certain restaurants etc. Sick of being 'good' then having an uncontrollable binge on the worst crap I could find, then beating myself up for it, then doubling down the next day. My poor body. And TBQH I was sick of spending all my time looking for just ONE more thing that would be the answer to all my problems. I was at the point where I could not spend any more money on supplements or gadgets and I was having trouble freeing up space in my head to concentrate on my work and family life.

Much of the weight that is put on when you start re-feeding is water-weight - I read that fat cannot accumulate on the body that quickly. Much of the digestion troubles you go through are your body getting used to new foods again after long periods of eating 'clean', fasting or eating from a certain food group only. The exhaustion you experience is your body signalling to you to stop exercising so it can finally get down to the task of healing. Unfortunately in our image/health-conscious world, these 'symptoms' are often confused with 'you cannot control your appetite, you eat only junk food and you are lazy'. If I am being totally honest with myself, because I was so obsessed with getting back the health I had when I was younger, I was also caught up in the 'you can only be healthy if you look a certain way' attitude (which was another way of showing people that I was 100% in control of myself), I did not understand the body positivity movement or the 'health at any size' concept.

Today, I have never felt better in my life, I have grown 1 inch taller in a year. And yes, I am 38 kilos (as scary as that sounds) heavier than the weight I used to keep myself at in order to be 'healthy' - which I now see was chronically, dangerously underweight, even though it was totally on trend. I do not expect or really want to stay at this weight for the rest of my life, I actually want my waist back but I know that I will never again restrict to get to a weight/shape the magazines/instagram tells me I should be at to feel my best - because it is a lie. If you can look deeply enough and ignore the fads that go in and out of fashion and the tortuous obsession with macros, micros, endless analysis of new scientific papers, etc. everything points towards the fact that if you eat to complete satiety at every meal with the foods you truly want to eat (because you love them) and do not get obsessed with over-exercise, your body knows exactly what to do to regain health and perfect balance for the rest of its life, whatever size that may be - there are many sizes and shapes in this world. Sometimes we just have to get over ourselves and that can often be the hardest thing. Letting go into uncertainty and testing out our heart's courage in the face of all the naysayers can be a great and healing balm in itself - whatever the outcome.

I have so much more now than I ever did. I am hot, strong and totally happy, when a crisis happens I am much better prepared to deal with it and I have space in my brain to get the projects I want to get done finished for the first time in my life. And I adore food, every single morsel that I put in my mouth is like an explosion of incredible taste I have never experienced before. It may sound like I am uncontrollably stuffing my face but I am now eating in a totally normal way with zero food obsession or fear. Dare I say it, I am fun to be with again.

When we get caught up in our own dogmatic thinking and rules (which a starved brain tends to be attracted to) we have to be careful about labelling something as unhealthy or healthy. I sometimes have a youtube video come up on my feed saying something like: 'what I eat in a day to stay lean' etc. and I know now that no matter how tempting it is to click on it and start eating that way 'cos they look incredible - it will never trump the wisdom my body possesses to get me back into a state of complete health all by itself. @Kelj did it, the other people I mentioned did it and I am doing it. All it takes is a letting go of control and 100% faith that eventually, if we persist for long enough, it will happen.

I applaud you. Just by the words you use- i can easily sense you are in a wonderful mental, emotional, physical and relational place. Someone else wrote about this last month. Different style but same message (to me. My opinion only).

I would like to know from both you and @Peatful how this affected your children and husband / SO and your career?

 

[Momma]

Weight gain when trying to heal. Is it what you think?

Edited for clarity: “Stress hormones will desensitize the insulin receptor. From birth to now, most of us have had some sort of stress that has shaped our experience of our health. With chronic stress comes many things, all of which desensitizes the insulin receptor.” “…when you...

raypeatforum.com

She shares her journey in pieces kind of throughout the thread. Really nice to see this being spoken of here. I personally was surprised by the orthorexia (hidden in plain sight) on the RPF; being supported by teachings Ray didn’t actually support.

 

[pushkin]

Thank you.
I`ll go through this whole thread again and try to make something of it.
I`m more willing to try now than when the thread started, especially after your testimonials, but circumstances do not predispose. I`ve just found, after almost a year and a half of looking, my dream job (at least I hope so) and it`s not home office. I`ll meet with people on a daily bases and must be more or less presentable. I`m currently 32.2 BMI, which is already quite a lot, and imagining it will go more up without any doubt, it makes me shake. No, no one would dare to fire me if I become a fat ball, but I`m going to feel extremely uncomfortable for myself. Perhaps, if I had a chance to retreat somewhere for a couple of years, or just if I had found a home office job, I`d let it go, but that`s not going to be possible for the next 2-3 years at least. So, I must think of something in the middle, if it exists. Very, very confused right now....

I totally agree about exercises. They are a very small part of the equation for most folks. Besides, sport never, never ever gave me any benefits except sored muscles, fatigue and depression. Not my Dao definitely.
What works to some extend and gets me out of trouble, is going carnivore. But you know, carnivore is not a lifelong option for many, many reasons....
The irony is, that for my age, I`m in a pretty decent state of health, and all the analyses I did are very good or supreme. But I put fat from inhaling air only ....
Generally, I`m convinced to the bone marrow, that fat gain, for the majority of people, is way way more complicated issue than most think. But I can`t prove it yet....
Anyway, we`ll see. I`ll probably order some DNP....

Hi Vinny, I completely understand! All I can say is that I was totally in the same boat as you, and I wish I had done this during lockdown but it was not to be. The last year has seen the craziest amount of weddings, funerals and other life events that I could not possibly hide away from. I have been devastated about what people thought of me in a larger body - the person who seemed to be always so in control, always slim, always capable (but had very strange eating habits). I did a lot of shaking too. I can confidently say that there will most likely NEVER be the perfect time to do this.

I believe fat gain can be a complicated issue when it is a side effect of prescription drugs but apart from that, it often indicates a history of restriction, Kelj talks a lot about this.