Weight Gain May Not Be A Bad Thing

[ecstatichamster]

Many Studies Show Ideal BMI For Older People Is Fat Fat Fat

Higher BMI May Be Better For Older Adults

Should Middle Aged Men Have A Paunch?

Another Fat Paradox - Fat Men More Likely To Survive “therapy” For Metastatic Melanoma

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have noticed people who lose a lot of weight often end up very sick within a few years. I mean VERY sick.

That's anecdotal but I think it's real. Losing a great deal of weight is VERY dangerous. It can be done, but probably best over years and not months.

 

[Cinnara]

Very interesting! Thank you for your post.

Can I ask if there have been any major traumatic events or stressors in your life? And when you say you were heavy, about how much heavier than average were you?

also, what foods were you eating before you decided to eat healthy?

How much weight did you lose and did you keep it off? Maybe I misread your post but I’m not sure if you’re saying you’re still thin now or just not as fat as before, but the health problems have returned.

Thank you for your reply.
I have had a probable stressor. It is possible that I was exposed to some kind of toxin. I am not sure if it was something in the house I grew up in. Or if happened at all. I was talking with a Microbiologist a long time ago and she thought some of my symptoms might have been a toxic exposure. I was losing hair badly and was just generally ill. Nausea and the like.

As far as weight. I am 5 ft. 3in. and I weighed about 320lbs.

I was not eating as bad as I could have. But I have to admit to tons of chips and candy and ice cream. But I did eat dairy and whatever protein source was on sale that week. Not much on fruit or veggies at the time. I lived far from any fast food so I cooked at home.

After the initial weight loss (and I lost the weight over a couple of years) -- I hovered around 200 -- 220 for a long time. But recently I have had a downswing in my health -- set off by a case of worms -- yep I found one in my poo. Now I am 147 lbs. Not exactly skinny but nearer my normal weight.

What I find so mind boggling is that losing weight is what took me from good health to poor health. I know I was not healthy as a teen. Maybe the microbiologist was right and I had a toxic exposure as a child. I suppose that the weight loss could have kicked loose the toxin and I essentially repoisoned myself when I lost weight.

 

[ecstatichamster]

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...y_A_review/links/53e217f20cf2235f352c0ba2.pdf

• Objective: To summarize published studies analyzing the effects of long-term change in body weight on all-cause mortality and have not been reported elsewhere in these proceedings.
• Data Sources: Thirteen reports from 11 diverse population studies, 7 from the United States and 4 from Europe.
• Study Selection: All studies included a weight change period of 4 or more years, followed by a mortality assessment period of 8 or more years. All weight changes occurred in persons 17 years or older.
• Data Extraction: Data from individual studies are presented as number of participants, number of deaths, ages at initial and final weight measurements, duration of the mortality follow-up period, consideration of cigarette smoking and other potential confounders, exclusion criteria, temporal separation between the weight change and mortality follow-up periods, and the association between weight change and all-cause mortality.
• Data Synthesis: Results are summarized by weight change associated with the lowest mortality rate and by the effects of long-term weight loss on mortality rate.
• Conclusions: Despite the diversity of the populations studied, the degree of "clinical clean-up" at entry, the techniques used to assess weight change, and the differences in analytic techniques (including consideration of potentially confounding variables), certain conclusions may be drawn. Evidence suggests that the highest mortality rates occur in adults who either have lost weight or have gained excessive weight. The lowest mortality rates are generally associated with modest weight gains.

 

[stargazer1111]

I am not an expert here. And I certainly don't want to offend anyone. But the weight gain/weight loss aspect of this thread interest me. I have been confused by an aspect of my own health -- or lack there of. My health as an adult was at it's best when I was also at my heaviest. By anyone's standards I was morbidly obese. But I walked miles every day. Once I measured out a long walk I took just to clear my head and think -- and I had walked 7 miles with no sore muscles. I used a wood stove for heat and chopped wood in great quantity. I worked hard and played harder.

Then I started trying to eat healthier. I ate mostly meat, cooked veggies, dairy and even some sugar in my tea. I did not calorie count. I just ate till I was not hungry.

But the health problems I had in my teens and early adult life returned. That was about 20 years ago and I have never been able to return to the health I had when I was fat with a capitol F.

At this point I have even tried overeating. But I just cannot eat that much any more. This all seems strange and confusing to me. Everyone says weighing less (within reason) is good. But I think in some cases it might not be.

Your experience supports the set point hypothesis. Your set point is probably on the higher side and your body will fight you if you try to go below it.

I've settled on being overweight and feeling good. Every single time I got thin, I got horribly sick, to the point at which it would have been better to be dead. Severe psychosis, memory loss, severe gastrointestinal damage, thyroid problems (officially diagnosed), inability to socialize, post-orgasmic illness.

I finally found a combination of things that prevent the post-orgasmic illness. Sugar, caffeine, and chocolate, and skim milk. If I get enough of that post-orgasm, I'm fully funcitonal the next day. If I go without these things, I can't get out of bed and have severe muscle and gastorintestinal issues.

I'm done losing weight.

 

[Fidelio]

Your experience supports the set point hypothesis. Your set point is probably on the higher side and your body will fight you if you try to go below it.

I've settled on being overweight and feeling good. Every single time I got thin, I got horribly sick, to the point at which it would have been better to be dead. Severe psychosis, memory loss, severe gastrointestinal damage, thyroid problems (officially diagnosed), inability to socialize, post-orgasmic illness.

I finally found a combination of things that prevent the post-orgasmic illness. Sugar, caffeine, and chocolate, and skim milk. If I get enough of that post-orgasm, I'm fully funcitonal the next day. If I go without these things, I can't get out of bed and have severe muscle and gastorintestinal issues.

I'm done losing weight.

You can change your set point by holding the weight for some time, or what I prefer to do is diet down to a weight then inject mt2.

“Post-orgasmic illness” just sounds like high prolactin. Sunlight, not being dehydrated, sufficient vitamin b6, high dopamine all lower prolactin.

 

[stargazer1111]

NVM

 

[redsun]

Changing the set point is very difficult. I know a few of the scientists working on this issue and it's incredibly hard to do. The only real modification I have seen in the literature that truly seems to change it long-term is gastric bypass at this point.

It's controlled mostly by the brain and we don't know how to correctly and safely alter the neurochemistry to change the set point but they're working on it. Eventually, we might be able to take a pill for this.

Post-orgasmic illness is very likely an autoimmune response. It may involve prolactin issues, but I think the main issue is the immune system reacting when it shouldn't be.

AS01-04 - Post orgasmic illness syndrome: indications for an auto-immune pathogenesis - ScienceDirect

The set point is and can be changed mostly by histamine levels. I did it myself. High histamine types maintain a lower weight when eating according to appetite (effortlessly) or if histamine is too excessive they are prone to being underweight, while low histamine types generally maintain an overweight or obese bodyweight if they were to eat according to appetite (appetite is much higher). Also glutamate and higher catecholamines esp. dopamine will help as well.

 

[stargazer1111]

The set point is and can be changed mostly by histamine levels. I did it myself. High histamine types maintain a lower weight when eating according to appetite (effortlessly) or if histamine is too excessive they are prone to being underweight, while low histamine types generally maintain an overweight or obese bodyweight if they were to eat according to appetite (appetite is much higher). Also glutamate and higher catecholamines esp. dopamine will help as well.

I have high histamine/MAO/DAO issues, especially if I don't get enough copper. I tend to be overweight.

 

[redsun]

I have high histamine/MAO/DAO issues, especially if I don't get enough copper. I tend to be overweight.

You aren't the first person to say that. You should take a look at user Korven's post on my thread as he gives a good representation of what a true high histamine case looks like:

Studies On Histamine's Effects

Many food intolerances and chemical sensitivities is a sign of low histamine, while high histamine cases digest virtually all foods very well but deal with seasonal allergies and frequent flu/colds etc...

 

[ursidae]

You aren't the first person to say that. You should take a look at user Korven's post on my thread as he gives a good representation of what a true high histamine case looks like:

Studies On Histamine's Effects

Many food intolerances and chemical sensitivities is a sign of low histamine, while high histamine cases digest virtually all foods very well but deal with seasonal allergies and frequent flu/colds etc...

What would symptoms of low histamine combined with inability to gain weight mean?

 

[redsun]

What would symptoms of low histamine combined with inability to gain weight mean?

Its likely you are misunderstanding the differences between low and high. Also keep in mind they are tendencies, not necessarily absolutes and the less extreme you are the less clear it will appear.

You could also have a deficiency making it very hard to maintain weight or you have severe gut problems causing low bodyweight.

 

[stargazer1111]

You aren't the first person to say that. You should take a look at user Korven's post on my thread as he gives a good representation of what a true high histamine case looks like:

Studies On Histamine's Effects

Many food intolerances and chemical sensitivities is a sign of low histamine, while high histamine cases digest virtually all foods very well but deal with seasonal allergies and frequent flu/colds etc...

For me, it's definitely high. Anything naturally high in histamine (aged meat, fermented foods for example) sends me over the edge with severe tachycardia. Histamine acts on the adrenergic receptors of the heart to increase heart rate to compensate for the drop in blood pressure histamine causes.

If I eat enough high histamine foods, my heart rate can go dangerously high to above 230 bpm while sleeping.

Many other symptoms point to high such as my out of control libido, mania, and borderline psychosis when I eat high histamine foods.

 

[redsun]

For me, it's definitely high. Anything naturally high in histamine (aged meat, fermented foods for example) sends me over the edge with severe tachycardia. Histamine acts on the adrenergic receptors of the heart to increase heart rate to compensate for the drop in blood pressure histamine causes.

If I eat enough high histamine foods, my heart rate can go dangerously high to above 230 bpm while sleeping.

Many other symptoms point to high such as my out of control libido, mania, and borderline psychosis when I eat high histamine foods.

Its the binding to H2 receptors that does what you describe since only epinephrine and norepinephrine can bind to the adrenergic receptors but I get what you mean.

Do you have adrenaline issues otherwise? As in when you dont consume offensive foods do you get tachycardia and such?

In your OP you said you suspect cortisol causing autoimmune but keep in mind the actual treatment for autoimmune conditions is usually glucocorticoids (cortisol like medications). Cortisol suppresses immunity, does not increase it this is why it is prescribed for autoimmune disease. Strenous exercise causes histamine release and that can be why it exacerbates your autoimmunity. You may not have much cortisol working as you would think.

A very long history of many fad diets, lots of exercise, (I assume you also tried IF and fasting or just barely eating) can lead to many many deficiencies but specifically it can cause you to slowly deplete iron levels (chronic fasts can especially deplete iron and its very hard to bring iron back up with just food), eventually leading to low cortisol and then cortisol is barely there to control immune reactions. If you never looked into iron status, that would be something to do. Iron is also necessary for optimal dopaminergic and glutamergic function which also affect the weight set point.

 

[Blossom]

I have noticed people who lose a lot of weight often end up very sick within a few years. I mean VERY sick.

That's anecdotal but I think it's real. Losing a great deal of weight is VERY dangerous. It can be done, but probably best over years and not months.

I lost 60 pounds over 4 years so it was super slow but I also haven’t had any obvious negative issues from the weight loss. I think it was just my body gradually getting back to it’s set point after first getting back to a reasonable level of health.

 

[Dutchie]

Pff....I wish my layer of belly fat would go away.I know it's probably incomprehensible for most here, but I'm actually starting to question if the sat.fat is to blame for it (maybe its messing with my insulin).

Problem is that when I eat mainly mufas from olive oil, I don't have any BM's

 

[Jib]

I've had it up to here with cultural biases against body fat. I was skinny my whole life, then became anorexic after gaining belly fat from being on Zyprexa and Lexapro at the same time. Been on both sides of the fence. Currently I'm overweight. Not horrendously. But around 198lbs at 5'11." Most of the fat seems to be visceral fat. I would qualify for metabolic syndrome as around my navel my belly is just over 40" circumference.

People will just blithely say "Why don't you try losing weight?" Implying just starvation. Again...I've been actually anorexic before, my lowest weight being 115lbs and I felt like I was going to die. I don't doubt that the anorexia had some role to play in getting a pretty big beer belly after recovering.

It's frustrating because I also have CFS, and working out is very difficult for me. I just avoid people in general now because I'm tired of judgmental BS. To everyone in the world it seems like such an obvious solution: starve yourself and work out more. If I can get enough of my metabolic rate recovered to where I can work out regularly without feeling dizzy/faint, I would love to just focus on building muscle and mobility/functional strength as opposed to restrictive dieting.

Just one more sick aspect of this culture. Also, no one said a single word to me about being thin when I was on the verge of death and very dangerously underweight. Now that I'm overweight just about everyone I run into seems to feel the need to make a comment about me being fat or out of shape when I have been busting my **** every day to take care of myself to the best of my ability. Very, very annoying.

And in regards to the OP: higher BMI may not even be unhealthy, and may in fact be closer to ideal. So much is skewed today. Especially for men, it's beaten into us that we're only sexually attractive if we have very low body fat percentage and large and vascular muscles. Stereotypical shredded/jacked. One more reason to just shun society and people's BS opinions.

It's also possible to build strength without much hypertrophy. I've been primarily doing gym rings training which is more geared toward tendon/ligament conditioning and myofibrilar hypertrophy as opposed to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy dominant bodybuilding style training.

I'm not much to look at, just look like an average overweight guy, but everyone I've had try the rings can't even prop themselves up on them, let alone do something like a Bulgarian dip or even tucked front or back lever. On top of that, they're also much harder to do when you're overweight compared to a normal weight.

Outward appearance isn't everything, but it is to most people. Which is unfortunate. But just the way it is. I'm trying to un-brainwash myself and focus on my health rather than losing fat, which isn't really an option when you're metabolically compromised anyway. I feel like absolute death when restricting food intake, and even with adequate intake I still have a lot of problems.

Visceral fat is a double edged sword. It is implicated in metabolic syndrome, and yet it's an effect as much as it's a cause. There's a ton of focus on excess visceral fat causing inflammation and increasing rates of various diseases, but not much about what causes it in the first place, e.g. insulin resistance, nutrient deficiencies, stress, etc. Which should be the primary concern.

I'm not sure if I'd fall into the category of "healthily overweight" but the disproportionate visceral fat I have leads me to believe not. According to the Internet my BMI would be somewhere around 28.

 

[Dutchie]

@Jib I agree, I've been at both ends of the spectrum as well (though not from an eating disorder).
I found that people would indirectly comment about me being skinny. They would share unsollicited stories about their diet etc. Everyone automatically assumed I had an eating disorder bc I fit their stereotype....skinny young female.

Some women/girls would throw me these bitchy glances, while I got so much attention from men whereas before they wouldn't look at me.
Some of the things I experienced before the weightloss disappeared when having lost the weigth. Yet they've returned again now that I'm at a normal weigth,which tells me there's something that isn't rigth,if only I could get a grip on it and reverse it.

 

[Vegancrossfit]

I think that calorie restriction is undoubtedly a massive stress, that said being massively overweight (BMI >25) is also a long term stress. Eating somewhere around a healthy maintenance (BMI in the lower 20s, body fat mid teens in males 20% ish in females) while not being neurotic about food choices is the best attitude imo

basically, practicing the art of not giving a damn. We know who’s happier between the steak eater and the salad consumer. Plus salads go for $15 nowadays, easily. That’s an expensive price to pay to fuel depression and boredom.

 

[animalcule]

But what if your appetite is above maintenance? Or what if your maintenance intake keeps you overweight?