Felt Decent On Matt Stone Style But Not High Cal Peat - Help

[firebreather]

I don't believe that's because of the PUFA itself, it's just incidental because 90% of readily available foods are made with / cooked in cheap oils. If they were made with saturated fats, they would taste the same if not better.

I agree, I'm just saying that the ones that are readily available and tasty have lots of PUFA.

I don't think they are so tasty because of the PUFA

 

[tara]

The Matt Stone approach says to eat the foods you desire as much as you want, not just eat as much as you want.

My reading of Matt Stone was that he described a few different approaches over the years, including:
- eat as much as you like of every thing (HED): good for getting over orthorexia
- eat lots of starch, low-moderate protein, just enough (mostly saturated) fat to make the starch palatable but not too much, not much sugar: good for raising metabolism
- various other experiments, eg milk diet etc?
He did eventually write about issues with PUFAs, the massive increase in seed oil consumption in the last century, etc, and unless one was getting stuck in orthorexia, he recommended keeping them low.

 

[xiaohua]

I agree, I'm just saying that the ones that are readily available and tasty have lots of PUFA.

I don't think they are so tasty because of the PUFA

Gotcha

 

[firebreather]

My reading of Matt Stone was that he described a few different approaches over the years, including:
- eat as much as you like of every thing (HED): good for getting over orthorexia
- eat lots of starch, low-moderate protein, just enough (mostly saturated) fat to make the starch palatable but not too much, not much sugar: good for raising metabolism
- various other experiments, eg milk diet etc?
He did eventually write about issues with PUFAs, the massive increase in seed oil consumption in the last century, etc, and unless one was getting stuck in orthorexia, he recommended keeping them low.

thank you tara

 

[denise]

Have you made french fries with coconut oil? I make steak fries in the oven, great with a lot of salt, ketchup, and a Mexican coke!

The cold oil method for making french fries is awesome. I have an old dutch oven that I keep coconut oil in to make these. I melt the oil as I'm cutting my potatoes, make the fries (which are amazing!) and then when the oil is cool, I put the lid on and stow it away until next time. You just need to strain it every few times you do it.

If you want less oil (and don't mind heating up the house), these oven home fries are also amazing, and you can easily use as little as 1-2 T of oil/butter for the whole batch.

 

[firebreather]

The cold oil method for making french fries is awesome. I have an old dutch oven that I keep coconut oil in to make these. I melt the oil as I'm cutting my potatoes, make the fries (which are amazing!) and then when the oil is cool, I put the lid on and stow it away until next time. You just need to strain it every few times you do it.

If you want less oil (and don't mind heating up the house), these oven home fries are also amazing, and you can easily use as little as 1-2 T of oil/butter for the whole batch.

Not sure I understand.

So you cook your fries like explained in the first link then take the fries out but leave the oil in the dutch oven and put the dutch oven in the fridge? Then the next time you want to make fries you pull the dutch oven from the fridge (with the oil inside from last time) and make more fries?

 

[denise]

Not sure I understand.

So you cook your fries like explained in the first link then take the fries out but leave the oil in the dutch oven and put the dutch oven in the fridge? Then the next time you want to make fries you pull the dutch oven from the fridge (with the oil inside from last time) and make more fries?

Yup! Coconut oil is stable enough that it's not going to go rancid as quickly as if you used some kind of vegetable oil. I'm not sure how long it will remain good. I've only done this 3-4 times over the last couple months, but I don't yet detect any rancidity in the oil (and I'm really sensitive to rancidity in oil).

BTW, I don't put it into the fridge. I just put the dutch oven into the storage drawer under the oven.

 

[firebreather]

Yup! Coconut oil is stable enough that it's not going to go rancid as quickly as if you used some kind of vegetable oil. I'm not sure how long it will remain good. I've only done this 3-4 times over the last couple months, but I don't yet detect any rancidity in the oil (and I'm really sensitive to rancidity in oil).

BTW, I don't put it into the fridge. I just put the dutch oven into the storage drawer under the oven.

I like

 

[James IV]

Yup! Coconut oil is stable enough that it's not going to go rancid as quickly as if you used some kind of vegetable oil. I'm not sure how long it will remain good. I've only done this 3-4 times over the last couple months, but I don't yet detect any rancidity in the oil (and I'm really sensitive to rancidity in oil).

BTW, I don't put it into the fridge. I just put the dutch oven into the storage drawer under the oven.

Little tidbit of info. That drawer under the oven is designed to warm food, not for storage. However, everyone I know uses it for storage.

 

[sladerunner69]

I'd stick with the Matt stone diet if that's what mad you feel better. It's fairly obvious to me

Psshhh Please... what kind of advice is that.

@firebreather

Adapting to a Peat-minded diet can take some significant time. If you are coming from a background of eating large amounts of PUFA, and before that eating low carbs, your metabolism has been adapted to be low. Your thyroid function is more than likely very sub-optimal. I've seen a lot of users struggle with the high sugar/low pufa approach for a few months or even years before their thyroid function is restored and enhanced.

You seriously dived into Peat at 6000 calories a day? Do you understand how sensitive your body can be to shifts in nutrition?

For example, you never drank milk or had much dairy. Then you dive into drinking milk by the gallon, and you are complaining about allergies? Of course you are going to react to that kind of change. Milk is very healthy and useful but it is clear that it can take months for a non-dairy person to adapt to consuming it.

Shifts in the organism, especially udner the gridlock of low metabolic function, can take many months. I have been marching to slow progress for 4-5 years against my own health issues. I can understand the desire for a magic bullet, but nothing worthwhile in life ever comes easy.

 

[sladerunner69]

Seems like starch, sugar and saturated all need to be there. At least when I look back on those days when I was eating a lot of everything, those three things would have been there in abundance

Yes, except starch. Many on this forum, among them I, experience a distinct mild euphoria until we subdue the effect with starch consumption.

 

[bmoores]

Three years in, my biggest breakthroughs were from use of Naltrexone, Diamox, and other glycolysis inhibitors. And I used clonidine to figure out I had high underlying adrenaline then fixed that by using antibiotic to lower gut bacteria. Amantadine was recently a spectacular motivation booster. I'm starch and PUFA-free. I've gotten back the energy from 18, eating 4000-7000 calories a day 165lb.

 

[firebreather]

Psshhh Please... what kind of advice is that.

@firebreather

Adapting to a Peat-minded diet can take some significant time. If you are coming from a background of eating large amounts of PUFA, and before that eating low carbs, your metabolism has been adapted to be low. Your thyroid function is more than likely very sub-optimal. I've seen a lot of users struggle with the high sugar/low pufa approach for a few months or even years before their thyroid function is restored and enhanced.

You seriously dived into Peat at 6000 calories a day? Do you understand how sensitive your body can be to shifts in nutrition?

For example, you never drank milk or had much dairy. Then you dive into drinking milk by the gallon, and you are complaining about allergies? Of course you are going to react to that kind of change. Milk is very healthy and useful but it is clear that it can take months for a non-dairy person to adapt to consuming it.

Shifts in the organism, especially udner the gridlock of low metabolic function, can take many months. I have been marching to slow progress for 4-5 years against my own health issues. I can understand the desire for a magic bullet, but nothing worthwhile in life ever comes easy.

Yes, except starch. Many on this forum, among them I, experience a distinct mild euphoria until we subdue the effect with starch consumption.

@sladerunner69
I didn't say I dove into Peat eating 6000 calories a day. I said I tried that after Peating for a while and most of that was from sugar, definitely not mostly from milk.

I never said I have never drank milk or had much dairy and I also never said I drank a gallon of milk a day while Peating.

Apart from the period I was paleo and low carb (4 or 5 years) I always had milk and it always bothered my allergies but I have always loved milk so I drank it anyway.

I'd be interested to hear how you came to all these conclusions about me. The one about me never drinking milk before Peat is particularly funny. You must have got your psychic paths crossed with someone else.

Last but not least about the starches I stated that the starches specifically seem to help as many people have stated on this forum

And I certainly understand things take time but the fact is that when I started eating a lot of whatever I wanted my mood and the frequent urination did change overnight.

Sometimes I get the feeling that there are a couple people on this forum (literally a couple out of hundreds) that just love to exert their "expertise" and tell people how wrong they are. Looks like I found the second one.

 

[firebreather]

Three years in, my biggest breakthroughs were from use of Naltrexone, Diamox, and other glycolysis inhibitors. And I used clonidine to figure out I had high underlying adrenaline then fixed that by using antibiotic to lower gut bacteria. Amantadine was recently a spectacular motivation booster. I'm starch and PUFA-free. I've gotten back the energy from 18, eating 4000-7000 calories a day 165lb.

thanks so much for posting @bmoores

I have tried Naltrexone but it gave me horrible nausea but maybe I was dosing to high.

What dose of Naltrexone were you using?

Not sure what I think about trying diamox or the like as it appears to be a diuretic and I already struggle with frequent urination. What did you take it for?

I definitely have high adreanline - mainly from my job from what I can tell but 1 clonidine pill 3X daily didn't do anything for it. I have tried a handful of antibiotics that Peat likes as well and never noticed anything from them.

I also just recently started Amantadine from haidut

 

[sladerunner69]

@sladerunner69
I didn't say I dove into Peat eating 6000 calories a day. I said I tried that after Peating for a while and most of that was from sugar, definitely not mostly from milk.

I never said I have never drank milk or had much dairy and I also never said I drank a gallon of milk a day while Peating.

Apart from the period I was paleo and low carb (4 or 5 years) I always had milk and it always bothered my allergies but I have always loved milk so I drank it anyway.

I'd be interested to hear how you came to all these conclusions about me. The one about me never drinking milk before Peat is particularly funny. You must have got your psychic paths crossed with someone else.

Last but not least about the starches I stated that the starches specifically seem to help as many people have stated on this forum

And I certainly understand things take time but the fact is that when I started eating a lot of whatever I wanted my mood and the frequent urination did change overnight.

Sometimes I get the feeling that there are a couple people on this forum (literally a couple out of hundreds) that just love to exert their "expertise" and tell people how wrong they are. Looks like I found the second one.

Your details of your post was particularly vague and somewhat smitten with platitude and so I read your post sort of briefly and had to develop a few reasonable assumptions-which I still believe are accurate.

You exclaimed that you began eating 6000 calories a day, which is a large amount of food but not actually uncommon, and felt much better. Then you said you moved to a Dr. Peat inspired diet. Everyone who has ever legitimately implemented Dr. Peat's recommendations has found their baseline caloric intake go up. Peat's work center's around the benefits of a highly increased metabolism- in case you somehow don't know this, it results in much more calories burned. Generally we see people improving their metabolism and raising their caloric intake by at least 25%.

If your personal experience was abnormal, maybe you should clarify that.

Again, when you claim to be Paleo for years then that ALWAYS implies you had not been drinking milk, and perhaps only had dairy on rare occasion- otherwise it would not be Paleo.

You then supposedly thought it was a good idea to eat tons of processed foods after reading Matt Stone's highly empirical and enthralling scientific literature (ahem) but again never mentionned what kinds of foods you ate so I safely assumed it was the usually no-dairy affair.

You stated vaguely that you felt better on starches, not definitely and not specifically. Further that is certainly not typical of this forum, the majority of users here, and perhaps all of the long term members, are focusing on fruits and juices and as little starch as possible. I do know some people prefer potatoes or white rice, or my one friedn who eats half a dozen bagels, but it is always for taste and it is my personal belief that this is simply a constriction to dogma against framing a diet around sugary/sweet foods, and if they would simply shed this preconceptions and societal pressures against such foods, they might have more success and not feel allergies all the time.

And lastly, I was offering my opinion on your post. My opinion is that your post was histrionic, unsettled malarkey- I did not directly attack it as such but I do apologize if my thoughts do not suit the paradigms to which you desperately cling, and that you felt vulnerable and existentially threatened enough to the point where you must react defensively and passive aggressively (mood behaviors of high serotonin/estrogen)

 

[bmoores]

thanks so much for posting @bmoores

I have tried Naltrexone but it gave me horrible nausea but maybe I was dosing to high.

What dose of Naltrexone were you using?

Not sure what I think about trying diamox or the like as it appears to be a diuretic and I already struggle with frequent urination. What did you take it for?

I definitely have high adreanline - mainly from my job from what I can tell but 1 clonidine pill 3X daily didn't do anything for it. I have tried a handful of antibiotics that Peat likes as well and never noticed anything from them.

I also just recently started Amantadine from haidut

For me, nausea happens with hypoglycemia and usually adrenaline. Immediately drinking a coke usually fixes it. With Naltrexone, I had to drink 2+ cokes at higher doses 12mg. I'd never recommend a dose that high, 1-4mg is probably ideal, though I've only used Naltrexone on 3 occasions 12mg so haven't tried lower doses yet. A 50mg pill can be dissolved in water, then use the drops. The .jpg is from a Low Dose Naltrexone group.

Antibiotic experiences were different for me under different contexts. When I read the following passage, I decided to try 50mg clonidine together with penicillin (or tetracycline), and had good results "...the growth of commensal and of pathogenic E. coli can be increased over 10,000-fold by simply adding norepinephrine to a serum-based microbial medium."
Stress and the Commensal Microbiota: Importance in Parturition and Infant Neurodevelopment

 

[bmoores]

thanks so much for posting @bmoores



Not sure what I think about trying diamox or the like as it appears to be a diuretic and I already struggle with frequent urination. What did you take it for?

Diamox reduces edema, part of the reason the medical industry calls it a diuretic. I never noticed any increase in urination but I've never tracked that either and I drink lots of fluids, including coffee. Nurse friends say potassium is lost in the urine when administering Diamox. And salt. I crave and drink lots of salted OJ with it. Cells take up potassium in the rested state. When using 10-20mg Diamox, I get phosphaturia, a sign that the increased bicarbonate is making my kidneys very efficient at disposing of excess phosphate. I see it as a good or neutral sign.

Lots of other ways to increase CO2: baking soda, bag breathing, nose breathing, buteyko, free diving training, meditative breathing and trancework, baking soda bath, soaking in carbonated springs, aspirin, CO2 gas, soda, T3, etc. For me, Diamox, soaking in carbonated springs, and sitting in a bag full of CO2 are the most effective. Diamox makes Coke bubbles almost burn cold on my tongue from the extreme sense of carbonation bite. Crazy refreshing. And I think aspirin is contraindicated with diamox, the CO2 gets very high, though I think I've done it with small doses and didn't notice any serious problems. I nibble a tiny bit of the 250mg pill and effects are still strong... no need for thyroid most of the time.

 

[firebreather]

Diamox reduces edema, part of the reason the medical industry calls it a diuretic. I never noticed any increase in urination but I've never tracked that either and I drink lots of fluids, including coffee. Nurse friends say potassium is lost in the urine when administering Diamox. And salt. I crave and drink lots of salted OJ with it. Cells take up potassium in the rested state. When using 10-20mg Diamox, I get phosphaturia, a sign that the increased bicarbonate is making my kidneys very efficient at disposing of excess phosphate. I see it as a good or neutral sign.

Lots of other ways to increase CO2: baking soda, bag breathing, nose breathing, buteyko, free diving training, meditative breathing and trancework, baking soda bath, soaking in carbonated springs, aspirin, CO2 gas, soda, T3, etc. For me, Diamox, soaking in carbonated springs, and sitting in a bag full of CO2 are the most effective. Diamox makes Coke bubbles almost burn cold on my tongue from the extreme sense of carbonation bite. Crazy refreshing. And I think aspirin is contraindicated with diamox, the CO2 gets very high, though I think I've done it with small doses and didn't notice any serious problems. I nibble a tiny bit of the 250mg pill and effects are still strong... no need for thyroid most of the time.

@bmoores Thank you for clarification on this and the naltrexone.

Very interesting. The think I don't understand about free dive training and buteyko is that you are holding your breath. I thought that was bad because when stressed most people hold their breath. Are we not just training the body even more to hold the breath when under stress.

You said with Diamox that there is no need for thyroid most of the time? So it increases thyroid somehow?

 

[bmoores]

@bmoores Thank you for clarification on this and the naltrexone.

Very interesting. The think I don't understand about free dive training and buteyko is that you are holding your breath. I thought that was bad because when stressed most people hold their breath. Are we not just training the body even more to hold the breath when under stress.

You said with Diamox that there is no need for thyroid most of the time? So it increases thyroid somehow?

People hyperventilate during extreme stress or anxiety, and it can cause heart damage quickly. People are robust but hyperventilating animals tend to die. Hyperventilation breathes out too much CO2. Holding your breath allows you increase the CO2 to Oxygen ratio in the body. If you study the Bohr effect, this actually results in increased oxygenation of the tissues because CO2 'breathes' oxygen into the tissues, pushing it off the hemoglobin so to say. Obviously we still need oxygen, but there can be a surprising amount in the body, fully oxygenated blood and a person can still be hypoxic in the tissues because of CO2 deficit. Diamox cures both sleep apnea and elevation sickness. Slight increased breathing rate when using diamox is ok, because the body already full of CO2. When testing higher doses of Diamox I definitely had to breathe more frequently, I guess to balance acidity.

I think if a sick person is holding their breath, they are enacting a natural protective measure. If they increase CO2 via other means they will not need to hold their breath.
Bohr Effect and Cells O2 Levels: Healthy vs. Sick People – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Increased CO2 allow the mitochrondia to work better and halts excess glycolysis. You go from making 2 ATP to like 34. You turn off production of inflammatory lactic acid, and turn on production of more CO2 instead. There's a virtuous positive feedback loop that creates youth. CO2 binds to every protein and changes it, e.g. carbamino groups. I've heard both ATP and CO2 called cardinal adsorbents.

So increased CO2 allows thyroid to work at the cell. If you're still deficient in T3 to begin with, e.g. impaired liver, you might still need to supplement thyroid. But much of hypothyroidism is at the mitochondrial level, in part due to CO2 deficiency.

 

[bmoores]

@bmoores Thank you for clarification on this and the naltrexone.

Very interesting. The think I don't understand about free dive training and buteyko is that you are holding your breath. I thought that was bad because when stressed most people hold their breath. Are we not just training the body even more to hold the breath when under stress.

You said with Diamox that there is no need for thyroid most of the time? So it increases thyroid somehow?

Protective CO2 and aging

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/20...on-carbon-dioxide-longevity-and-regeneration/