Intermittent Fasting On Ray Peat

Tcrazyjam

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Hello,
what do you think about intermittent fasting, especially the eat stop eat fasting style. It is like alternate day fasting.
you fast for 24 h once or twice a week, the other days you eat normal and meet your calorie target.
so I think the metabolism cannot slow down. (I"ve read in a study)
Of course, i can check temperature and pulse, to be sure.
I know that RP does not like calorie restriction, but this case is special.

Thanks

David , from germany

[mod="Charlie"]Intermittent fasting is against everything Ray Peat so we have decided to move this thread to the non Peat section.[/mod]
 

jyb

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How is that case special? If you are skipping meals on a day, then you are restricting calories with all its consequences on metabolism. In fact, every night when you go to sleep, stress hormones increase which is why skipping breakfast is particularly bad. I can't imagine what it would be if you waited a whole day, surely the body would decrease metabolism so that the experience becomes less painful.
 

Tcrazyjam

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Hello, i think this case is special because you do not restrict calories on a daily basis.
so after a fast you set your calories high and your metabolism becomes normal again.
In other words... it takes some time for your hormonal system to adapt. In the past, it was normal for human beeing to fast for a long time .
But i am unsure, because i've found only one study .
 

jyb

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Tcrazyjam said:
Hello, i think this case is special because you do not restrict calories on a daily basis.
so after a fast you set your calories high and your metabolism becomes normal again.
In other words... it takes some time for your hormonal system to adapt. In the past, it was normal for human beeing to fast for a long time .
But i am unsure, because i've found only one study .

It doesn't matter if its not on a daily basis, because you stress in just a few hours if there is no calorie. So if you restrict for an entire day, you stress for sure.

That's unless you have compelling evidence that something is worth it when you don't eat for a day, that compensates for all the stress. But I have never heard of such evidence.
 

4peatssake

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Tcrazyjam said:
Hello, i think this case is special because you do not restrict calories on a daily basis.
so after a fast you set your calories high and your metabolism becomes normal again.
In other words... it takes some time for your hormonal system to adapt. In the past, it was normal for human beeing to fast for a long time .
But i am unsure, because i've found only one study .
Probably a good idea to provide the link to the study.
That being said, Ray Peat definitely does not recommend fasting.

Just use Dan's Ray Peat Search Engine and google "fasting" and you'll see his views clearly.

Ray Peat said:
After the liver's glycogen is depleted, fasting destroys the tissues, starting with the thymus, then the muscles and liver.

Fasting is extremely stressful on the body - jyb is correct, the stress from the overnight fast is already very taxing to the body so I hardly think purposefully creating more stress by tanking your metabolism once a week is helpful.

What would be the point? It's certainly not the way to achieve an optimal metabolic rate. Human beings didn't fast in the past because they wanted to, but due to circumstance.
 

jyb

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I think the fasting thing is related to all those other "useful stress" protocols like cold showers. One could hypothesize that some of these can stimulate the thyroid briefly, but I think RP would definitely not recommend the food restriction version, nor anything of that sort if you already have thyroid problems.
 

Tcrazyjam

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Thank you for your opinion. What would be less harmful? IF once or twice a week, or to go on a normal diet without IF (daily calorie restriction)?

I want to loose 10 Pounds weight and lower my cholesterol. It is way to high.

thank you.
 

4peatssake

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Tcrazyjam said:
Thank you for your opinion. What would be less harmful? IF once or twice a week, or to go on a normal diet without IF (daily calorie restriction)?

I want to loose 10 Pounds weight and lower my cholesterol. It is way to high.

thank you.
Here is Ray Peat's basic information on weight loss. There are many factors to consider, particularly your metabolic rate. If it is very low due to hypothyroidism, weight loss won't happen until you increase your metabolism.

Ray Peat said:
My recommendation is to eat to increase the metabolic rate (usually temperature and heart rate), rather than any particular foods. Usually the increased metabolic rate, with adequate protein, causes some muscle increase, and when that happens the basic calorie requirement will increase. The increase of muscle mass should continue for several weeks, and during that time the weight might increase a little, but usually the loss of water and fat will compensate for the greater muscle mass. I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories.
Ray Peat's Brain: Building a Foundation for Better Understanding

There is a lot of very useful information at that link about a number of subjects, not just weight loss.
But to fully understand Ray, it is best read his articles and listen to his audios.

Forum member Dan created a Ray Peat Search Engine that is really useful. To search Ray's views on any topic - cholesterol and weight loss in your case - simply use the search engine to pull up Peat specific references for that topic.
 

leo

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My recommendation is to eat to increase the metabolic rate (usually temperature and heart rate), rather than any particular foods.

I get this to mean that calorie restriction or fasting is not the way to lose weight. Eating is. However he very plainly says no particular foods.

Then he goes on to list specific foods: low fat milk, egss, oj, carrots.

Don't get it.
 

leo

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Tcrazyjam: If you find a way to lose those 10 lbs without lowering temps/pulse, be sure to share! I too would like to lose 5-10 lbs and so far I don't see that happening on Peat. The minute I cut back my temps go down. Today I just went out to lunch....ate pretty much Peat style.....and afternoon temps were the lowest they've ever been.

When I stay at home and basically eat every 2 hrs. I can keep nice temps. Only problem is I can't live like this long term. I shudder to think what would happen when I am on a long trip.

I thought this would be easy, but it's turning out to be rather complicated for me.

Only really positive thing so far is improved sleep/mood. That's a real bonus.

Other than that, I really don't know. Am still having second thoughts.
 
J

j.

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leo said:
Tcrazyjam: If you find a way to lose those 10 lbs without lowering temps/pulse, be sure to share! I too would like to lose 5-10 lbs and so far I don't see that happening on Peat. The minute I cut back my temps go down. Today I just went out to lunch....ate pretty much Peat style.....and afternoon temps were the lowest they've ever been.

When I stay at home and basically eat every 2 hrs. I can keep nice temps. Only problem is I can't live like this long term. I shudder to think what would happen when I am on a long trip.

I thought this would be easy, but it's turning out to be rather complicated for me.

Only really positive thing so far is improved sleep/mood. That's a real bonus.

Other than that, I really don't know. Am still having second thoughts.

I recall Peat saying that once things get fixed, you don't need to eat that often anymore.
 

Tcrazyjam

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First i have to say sorry if my english is not so good.

@ 4peatssake,
i am thankful for the Link you have posted (search engine), i will use it :).
What do you think about Pregnenolone to lower cholesterol? And are there other supplements? I am 30 years old, but chronicly stressed.

Regarding "gamma" tocopherol": Why not using natural sources like palm oil ?

Regarding my metabolism:
I began RP diet 6 weeks ago. My morning temperature has increased from 97,1 F to 97,9 F (under tongue). So it might be ok

Other problems/experiences with RP:
Unfortunaly i have a bad digestion.
So i try to limit fruits, honey and milk, and get more suggar first (most of my carbohydrates).
I do not tolerate orange juice or vine grape juice, but i experiment with small amounts.
At the beginning i was consuming 150 - 180 grams fat per day.
I think that was a problem regarding cholesterol and digestion.
Now i try to limit, and just eat between 60-80 grams fat/day.

To summarize my problems:
  • very high cholesterol (380)
  • bad digestion
  • joint problems
  • fatigue

@ leo,
I'll keep you informed & try to find the study about fasting and RMR(resting metabolic rate).
I have to say that my cholesterol has been reduced through my fasting experiment.
It was lowered from 380 to 280. My weight went down from 214 p to 198 p in 2 months of fasting.
After that i began RP diet, and my cholesterol went up to 382 again...
But i am suprised about meal frequency. Since the beginning of my RP experiment, i did just eat 3 times a day.
Should i eat more often, like every 2 hours? Would this be far better to improve temperature?
I want to be sure, that my metabolism is ok, before starting a fasting experiment. You have convinced me.

And last question regarding protein intake:
I allready know Peats opinion about protein supplement, because of the denaturation and the high tryptophan intake.
But i do not want to be a perfect peater. I try to balance aminos by taking more gelatine, maybe up to 50 grams a day.
And just to take protein supplement once or twice a week after a training session - with milk and suggar.
So i am asking you. What is the best protein supplement for me and my problems.
What about Whey isolate, Milk protein powder (higher lactose contant), or other sources?

Thank you very much, i like this board !
 
J

j.

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Tcrazyjam said:
Regarding "gamma" tocopherol": Why not using natural sources like palm oil ?

I don't know if it has enough. In the study I mentioned, they used 100 mg daily for 5 weeks. Is it easy to consume that amount with palm oil?
 
J

j.

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Tcrazyjam said:
To summarize my problems:
  • very high cholesterol (380)


  • You are probably hypothyroid. Eliminate all significant sources of PUFA from your diet, but the effects of this could take years to be felt without thyroid supplementation.
 

Tcrazyjam

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j. said:
Tcrazyjam said:
Regarding "gamma" tocopherol": Why not using natural sources like palm oil ?

I don't know if it has enough. In the study I mentioned, they used 100 mg daily for 5 weeks. Is it easy to consume that amount with palm oil?

How significant the cholesterol has been lowered in the study? and can you give me a good brand, which is priceless?
my brother is in l.a. now and want to ship supplements, like pregnenolone for me:)

And can i ask my doctor to prescribe niacine? Because it seems to be better than statines (because of the sice effects).
 
J

j.

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Tcrazyjam said:
How significant the cholesterol has been lowered in the study? and can you give me a good brand, which is priceless?
my brother is in l.a. now and want to ship supplements, like pregnenolone for me:)

What I remember is that the authors said that the reductions were "significant". For gamma tocopherol I use Swanson Maximum Strength Gamma. Pregnenolone will probably help you feel better because your levels likely are low due to hypothyroidism. There is a theory that pregnenolone supplementation reduces cholesterol. Once the body feels it has enough pregnenolone, it doesn't increase the levels of its precursor, cholesterol.

5,000 IU of vitamin A weekly might help your body convert cholesterol to pregnenolone, since vitamin A is a precursor to pregnenolone.
 

Tcrazyjam

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Thank you.
Unfortunaly scientist define "significant" differently. That's why I asked for concrete findings.
For example i have read statines lower cholesterol "significantly", but in deed fasting was way better for lowering cholesterol.

Maybe you could send me a link to the vitamin E study. For vitamin A status i eat 200 grams liver per week (= 15.000 µg), that is sufficient I think.


David
 

Gabriel

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*If* you choose to lower your cholesterol with drugs, I'd rather choose statins than niacin. For statins effectiveness has been shown and it's relatively safe. For niacin, not so much. Adding niacin to statin treatment worsened outcome. Even Peat is not fond of taking niacin (he is more a fan of niacinamide but this doesnt alter the cholesterol).

Regulating with diet and thyroid is the safest option though.
 
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