"Keeping The Metabolic Rate Up Is The Main Thing, And There Are Lots Of Ways To Do It."

narouz

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On quick heat.
I have read several Peater's say that starch gives them energy.
Quite a few have said potatoes or rice or whatever
will quickly raise their temps,

I can believe this.
It makes me think we shouldn't focus
on short term temps/pulse increases absolutely.

We might well achieve the short-term goal--higher temps soon.
And lose the overall goal--higher temps sustainably
 

BobbyDukes

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What works for me is saturated fat.

Whole milk, chocolate, coconut oil, lamb/beef fat. My extremities are like a burning furnace. Whole milk can warm me up almost uncomfortably so.

Fat has its drawbacks though, so like everyone, I am searching for a balance.
 

RPDiciple

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haidut said:
Caffeine, DNP, anti-serotonin drugs, dopaminergic drugs, anti-estrogenic drugs, aspirin, virtually all phenols (DNP is a phenol), SCFA (especially butyrate), DHEA, pregnenolone, DHT, testosterone, fructose, cascara (and virtually all anthraquinones), vitamin K2, oxygen, etc.

The above is a small list based on the general principles that anything that restores electron flow will be termogenic and anything that inhibits it will lower core temperature.


I was wondering in regards to caffeine. When you use pills, how fast does it usually take for you to notice the effects from the caffeine? i have pills and i also have caffeine powder that i just put on my tongue.
 

haidut

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RPDiciple said:
haidut said:
Caffeine, DNP, anti-serotonin drugs, dopaminergic drugs, anti-estrogenic drugs, aspirin, virtually all phenols (DNP is a phenol), SCFA (especially butyrate), DHEA, pregnenolone, DHT, testosterone, fructose, cascara (and virtually all anthraquinones), vitamin K2, oxygen, etc.

The above is a small list based on the general principles that anything that restores electron flow will be termogenic and anything that inhibits it will lower core temperature.


I was wondering in regards to caffeine. When you use pills, how fast does it usually take for you to notice the effects from the caffeine? i have pills and i also have caffeine powder that i just put on my tongue.

Caffeine is one of the most well absorbed substances in Peat world. Its absorption has been shown to be 95%+ in many human studies, and it takes about 15min to feel the effects and 30min to get fully absorbed. Half life is 5-6 hours.
 

Zachs

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To the posters above talking about what Peat says regarding eating fat with starch. He is talking about how to eat starch safely to reduce endotoxin. Most of the time, he is not talking in the context of fat loss. If you were to ask him, I'm sure he would say to minimize fat intake at all meals and most likely to eliminate starch all together to lesson the insulin response.
 

narouz

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Yeah.
I think generally he wouldn't advise starches,
even the Peatish ones,
be eaten without ample saturated fat.

I can see the caloric argument,
but often that isn't the decisive factor for Peat.

He would probably say something like,
"Yeah, you aren't getting as many calories
(by not putting any or much fat on your starch).
But then you may have trouble with endotoxin.
Then all weight-loss bets are off."
 

RPDiciple

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haidut said:
RPDiciple said:
haidut said:
Caffeine, DNP, anti-serotonin drugs, dopaminergic drugs, anti-estrogenic drugs, aspirin, virtually all phenols (DNP is a phenol), SCFA (especially butyrate), DHEA, pregnenolone, DHT, testosterone, fructose, cascara (and virtually all anthraquinones), vitamin K2, oxygen, etc.

The above is a small list based on the general principles that anything that restores electron flow will be termogenic and anything that inhibits it will lower core temperature.


I was wondering in regards to caffeine. When you use pills, how fast does it usually take for you to notice the effects from the caffeine? i have pills and i also have caffeine powder that i just put on my tongue.

Caffeine is one of the most well absorbed substances in Peat world. Its absorption has been shown to be 95%+ in many human studies, and it takes about 15min to feel the effects and 30min to get fully absorbed. Half life is 5-6 hours.


Thank you.

But how much can really caffeine raise the metabolic rate? i have seen some studies only claiming that thermic effect is like 6-8% from caffeine.

I know the big doses of 1-1400mg a day of caffeine has great benefits but do they talk about how much they raise the metabolic rate?

Did you notice anything when you did it in terms of fat loss etc?
 

haidut

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RPDiciple said:
haidut said:
RPDiciple said:
haidut said:
Caffeine, DNP, anti-serotonin drugs, dopaminergic drugs, anti-estrogenic drugs, aspirin, virtually all phenols (DNP is a phenol), SCFA (especially butyrate), DHEA, pregnenolone, DHT, testosterone, fructose, cascara (and virtually all anthraquinones), vitamin K2, oxygen, etc.

The above is a small list based on the general principles that anything that restores electron flow will be termogenic and anything that inhibits it will lower core temperature.


I was wondering in regards to caffeine. When you use pills, how fast does it usually take for you to notice the effects from the caffeine? i have pills and i also have caffeine powder that i just put on my tongue.

Caffeine is one of the most well absorbed substances in Peat world. Its absorption has been shown to be 95%+ in many human studies, and it takes about 15min to feel the effects and 30min to get fully absorbed. Half life is 5-6 hours.


Thank you.

But how much can really caffeine raise the metabolic rate? i have seen some studies only claiming that thermic effect is like 6-8% from caffeine.

I know the big doses of 1-1400mg a day of caffeine has great benefits but do they talk about how much they raise the metabolic rate?

Did you notice anything when you did it in terms of fat loss etc?

There are studies showing 6% increase in BMR from just 50mg caffeine and this effect persisted for 6 hours. I have seen studies showing much bigger increases (20%+) from lager doses in the range of 600mg+. There is no doubt that caffeine raises metabolic rate. The only question is to take it the right way and avoid activating the stress hormones, which will make metabolism crash and take up to a day to recover.
 

tara

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haidut said:
There are studies showing 6% increase in BMR from just 50mg caffeine and this effect persisted for 6 hours. I have seen studies showing much bigger increases (20%+) from lager doses in the range of 600mg+. There is no doubt that caffeine raises metabolic rate.
6% increase in BMR does not seem trivial to me.

haidut said:
The only question is to take it the right way and avoid activating the stress hormones, which will make metabolism crash and take up to a day to recover.

I don't think this is the only question for some of us. If it works by increasing T4 to T3 conversion, and T4 is inadequate, that could potentially be an issue for some of us.
May not be relevant for RPDisciple, though - if it works OK that's great.
 

RPDiciple

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haidut said:
RPDiciple said:
haidut said:
RPDiciple said:
haidut said:
Caffeine, DNP, anti-serotonin drugs, dopaminergic drugs, anti-estrogenic drugs, aspirin, virtually all phenols (DNP is a phenol), SCFA (especially butyrate), DHEA, pregnenolone, DHT, testosterone, fructose, cascara (and virtually all anthraquinones), vitamin K2, oxygen, etc.

The above is a small list based on the general principles that anything that restores electron flow will be termogenic and anything that inhibits it will lower core temperature.


I was wondering in regards to caffeine. When you use pills, how fast does it usually take for you to notice the effects from the caffeine? i have pills and i also have caffeine powder that i just put on my tongue.

Caffeine is one of the most well absorbed substances in Peat world. Its absorption has been shown to be 95%+ in many human studies, and it takes about 15min to feel the effects and 30min to get fully absorbed. Half life is 5-6 hours.


Thank you.

But how much can really caffeine raise the metabolic rate? i have seen some studies only claiming that thermic effect is like 6-8% from caffeine.

I know the big doses of 1-1400mg a day of caffeine has great benefits but do they talk about how much they raise the metabolic rate?

Did you notice anything when you did it in terms of fat loss etc?

There are studies showing 6% increase in BMR from just 50mg caffeine and this effect persisted for 6 hours. I have seen studies showing much bigger increases (20%+) from lager doses in the range of 600mg+. There is no doubt that caffeine raises metabolic rate. The only question is to take it the right way and avoid activating the stress hormones, which will make metabolism crash and take up to a day to recover.


Get you. It seems like i can handle quite a bit of caffeine. Took 350-400mg caffeine with my milk today and i did not feel much.

Do you always have to take caffeine with a meal? what about if you just ate something 1-2 hours before taking it ? there will be alot of sugar, protein etc in the body still to use as energy.
 

Jennifer

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Zachs said:
To the posters above talking about what Peat says regarding eating fat with starch. He is talking about how to eat starch safely to reduce endotoxin. Most of the time, he is not talking in the context of fat loss. If you were to ask him, I'm sure he would say to minimize fat intake at all meals and most likely to eliminate starch all together to lesson the insulin response.
Yeah, there's no doubt that Ray isn't a fan of starch and that eliminating it all together would lessen the insulin response and that favoring sugar over fat is better for optimal metabolic function and weight loss, but I still don't think what Ray says about eating saturated fat with starch has only to do with protection from endotoxin. I've heard in interviews where Ray has mentioned saturated fat's positive impact on insulin when starch is eaten, but I can't remember which interviews. But here is just one example from Ray's Glycemia, Starch and Sugar in context article:

"Saturated fats improve the insulin-secreting response to glucose." Ray Peat

Also, I don't think the blood sugar stabilizing effect of some saturated fat with our food is exclusive to just starch either. Ray also said this:

"If you take orange juice with some fat, it will be more stabilizing to your blood sugar than grits and potatoes. Starches increase the stress hormones, interfering with progesterone and thyroid." Ray Peat

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2014/0 ... -starches/

Also, so I don't overload this thread with quotes, for anyone interested, check out Ray's Cholesterol and Saturated Fats interview with East West Healing in 2011, particularly his response to Josh's question about living entirely without eating fats. There's another positive factor having to do with food pleasure and satisfaction on how we digest foods in a mixed macro meal. I think some, not a ton, of saturated fat has its benefits even when weight loss is desired.
 

Peata

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cantstoppeating said:
What a disappointing answer.

The metabolic rate can be kept up while being in ketosis and supplementing with a little T3. This will melt stored fat like butter in a frying pan.

Of course, this isn't what he has in mind. It would be great if Peata could ask a followup question like:

"To keep the metabolic rate up, you recommend to block lipolysis in favour of glucose oxidation. By preventing the liberation and metabolism of fatty acids (i.e. lipolysis), how does one lose excess stored fat?"

"To keep the metabolic rate up, you recommend to block lipolysis in favour of glucose oxidation. By preventing the liberation and metabolism of fatty acids (i.e. lipolysis), how does one lose excess stored fat?"

Answer from RP on 4/15/15: The liver can gradually excrete it in the urine as a toxin.
 

Peata

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max219 said:
Calories!

Yes, very important. I couldn't get my temps up yesterday, even with a lot of salt, and then I looked at cronometer and saw I was under 1,000 calories still, and it was 3 p.m. So I ate again and felt warm and my temps went up.
 

RPDiciple

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Strange ***t. I have taken around 1200 mg of caffeine a day divided in 3 doses. I dont feel much from it, exept for maybe a bit calmer and feel more robust. Also maybe a tad bit warmer i feel, but other then that i dont notice anything :P
 

sweetpeat

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RPDiciple said:
Strange s***. I have taken around 1200 mg of caffeine a day divided in 3 doses. I dont feel much from it, exept for maybe a bit calmer and feel more robust. Also maybe a tad bit warmer i feel, but other then that i dont notice anything :P

Wow! That's quite a jump. I'd be curious to know how you sleep after bumping up your caffeine that much. Yesterday, I increased from 200 to 300 mg -- for the day. Took my last dose at 11am and was still tossing and turning at 1am that night. But maybe I'm a slow metabolizer?
 

narouz

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Peata said:
cantstoppeating said:
What a disappointing answer.

The metabolic rate can be kept up while being in ketosis and supplementing with a little T3. This will melt stored fat like butter in a frying pan.

Of course, this isn't what he has in mind. It would be great if Peata could ask a followup question like:

"To keep the metabolic rate up, you recommend to block lipolysis in favour of glucose oxidation. By preventing the liberation and metabolism of fatty acids (i.e. lipolysis), how does one lose excess stored fat?"

"To keep the metabolic rate up, you recommend to block lipolysis in favour of glucose oxidation. By preventing the liberation and metabolism of fatty acids (i.e. lipolysis), how does one lose excess stored fat?"

Answer from RP on 4/15/15: The liver can gradually excrete it in the urine as a toxin.

Yeah.
Glucuronidation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucuronidation
 

RPDiciple

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sweetpeat said:
RPDiciple said:
Strange s***. I have taken around 1200 mg of caffeine a day divided in 3 doses. I dont feel much from it, exept for maybe a bit calmer and feel more robust. Also maybe a tad bit warmer i feel, but other then that i dont notice anything :P

Wow! That's quite a jump. I'd be curious to know how you sleep after bumping up your caffeine that much. Yesterday, I increased from 200 to 300 mg -- for the day. Took my last dose at 11am and was still tossing and turning at 1am that night. But maybe I'm a slow metabolizer?

I take my last 350-400mg capsule with is the third for the day at around 7-9 in the evening. I sleep like a baby :p dont feel anything
 

sweetpeat

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Lucky you! I've been getting to sleep earlier than 1am the last couple of nights, but it still takes me longer to fall asleep than I would like. So I hesitate to bump the caffeine up any higher.
 

tara

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Jennifer said:
Also, so I don't overload this thread with quotes, ...
Please don't hold yourself back for my sake. :)
 
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