Personal Fat Threshold Theory

[Blossom]

We’ve often discussed the obesity paradox on the forum and I recently read about the idea of a Personal Fat Threshold that explains quite a bit about why some people can be ‘overweight/obese’ and be metabolically healthy and others can be in the ‘normal BMI’ range and be metabolically unhealthy. The key seems to be figuring out how much body fat our own (unique) body will tolerate before things like glucose and lipids start spilling over into the our blood steam because we’ve run out of storage capacity in our fat cells and other organs. We have a lot of great suggestions for these situations here on the forum already of course but I’m always on the lookout for lifestyle changes people can make without resorting to supplements or meds.

Here is a great quote from an article (recommend reading the whole thing) I ran across recently followed by a link to a 2014 scientific abstract questioning the carb/insulin hypothesis and introducing the Personal Fat Threshold Theory.

“The bottom line is that insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and metabolic syndrome are not simply a result of eating too many carbs.

Instead, it’s a bit more complex (but still simple) than that, and there are a few more things to factor into the cause and the plan of action.

But if insulin and carbs aren’t to blame for our obesity and diabetes, what can we do? Is it back to just eating less and exercising more?

Well, sort of. But not exactly.

The key to the whole puzzle comes down to lowering Your Personal Fat Threshold.



What Is My Personal Fat Threshold?

By now, you’re probably wondering how you can calculate Your Personal Fat Threshold so you can restrict your calories, lose just the right amount of weight, and kick your metabolic syndrome.

While body weight and other biometrics can be easy to calculate, calculating your personal fat threshold is not simple.

First, to determine if you are above your personal fat threshold, you check your waking glucose. If it’s over 100 mg/dL or 5.6 mmol/L, then you’re above your personal fat threshold.

You can use a simple blood glucose monitor (or a continuous glucose monitor if you already have one) as a fuel gauge to determine whether or not you need to eat and refuel again.

Over time, as you unload the extra energy you have onboard, your waking glucose and insulin sensitivity will improve.”

The Personal Fat Threshold Model of Insulin Resistance, Diabetes & Obesity

Carbs trigger the release of insulin, which makes you fat. Right? No. Not exactly. After some fascinating discussion in a private chat group that we’re both in, Dr Ted Naiman created his ‘insulinographic’ to elucidate the personal fat threshold and the adipose-centric theory of diabesity...

optimisingnutrition.com

Normal weight individuals who develop type 2 diabetes: the personal fat threshold - PubMed
(If anyone has access to it in full please share).

 

[LuMonty]

Here's the study. Just threw the study link into sci-hub.st.

 

[Blossom]

@LuMonty, thank you!

 

[LuMonty]

@LuMonty, thank you!

You're welcome! Sometimes sci-hub has to move domains and appear to be down (was .se before) but it'll find an online copy of a study if it exists.

 

[LLight]

It think this theory might be linked to the fact that fat cells accumulate fat soluble toxins.

 

[Blossom]

@LLight, that’s a very interesting insight. Thanks

 

[Elie]

It think this theory might be linked to the fact that fat cells accumulate fat soluble toxins.

So detox fat cells?

 

[YourUniverse]

Interesting, thanks

 

[LLight]

@Blossom You're welcome. I believe @mostlylurking has made a good post about this topic recently.

@Elie I believe that if someone's detoxification capabilities are decreased it's difficult to lose weight.

 

[LLight]

It was this one:

The body uses fat to store toxins in and if you knock yourself out and actually manage to reduce the fat those toxins get released and can wreak havoc with your health. In addition to PUFA and estrogen that are stored in the fat, environmental toxins (including heavy metals) get parked there too.

Detoxing the body can make fat loss a lot easier and a lot safer too. Focusing on liver health would be beneficial. Many times, it isn't the fat that makes you unhealthy; it's being unhealthy that makes you fat.

I remember when I was detoxed (for heavy metals mainly) in 1994, no focus was put on weight loss although I was put on a very strict diet. I lost around 34 pounds in 2 weeks and was left with bat wings hanging off my upper arms. It made quite an impression on me.

Toxicological Function of Adipose Tissue: Focus on Persistent Organic Pollutants

Background: Adipose tissue (AT) is involved in several physiological functions, including metabolic regulation, energy storage, and endocrine functions.Objectives: In this review we examined the evidence that an additional function of AT is to modulate ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Factors affecting the storage and excretion of toxic lipophilic xenobiotics - PubMed

Lipophilic toxins have been introduced into the environment both as functional compounds, such as pesticides, and as industrial waste from incineration or the manufacture of electrical transformer components. Among these substances are compounds that are carcinogenic and that affect the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And I add this one:

Can lipophilic pollutants in adipose tissue explain weight change‐related risk in type 2 diabetes mellitus?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Elie]

@Blossom You're welcome. I believe @mostlylurking has made a good post about this topic recently.

@Elie I believe that if someone's detoxification capabilities are decreased it's difficult to lose weight.

Top agents for detox?
Vit E, C, niacinamide
Alpha lipoic acid?
Shilajit and or zeolite?

 

[LLight]

Top agents for detox?
Vit E, C, niacinamide
Alpha lipoic acid?
Shilajit and or zeolite?

I guess a deficiency of any of these vitamins could probably impair these mechanisms. I've found this paper about selenium and iodine interesting:

Selenium and/or iodine deficiency alters hepatic xenobiotic metabolizing enzyme activities in rats - PubMed

The objective of this study was to investigate the effects of iodine (I(2)) and/or selenium (Se) deficiency on thyroid hormones and hepatic xenobiotic metabolizing enzyme systems using a triple animal model. Three-week-old male Wistar rats were fed for seven weeks. Se deficiency was introduced...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If I understand it correctly, phase 2 detoxification enzymes seems to be quite dependent on selenium and iodine availability.

 

[youngsinatra]

You likely can resolve a lot of cases of metabolic syndrome (insulin resistance, hyperglycemia, hypertension, elevated blood lipids and elevated liver enzymes) by making an individual lose a significant amount of fat.

Stan Efferding talked about this in his Vertical diet. Some of his bulkier athletes needed to cut down to resolve these problems, before starting off a clean state over again.

 

[Jamsey]

I guess a deficiency of any of these vitamins could probably impair these mechanisms. I've found this paper about selenium and iodine interesting:

Selenium and/or iodine deficiency alters hepatic xenobiotic metabolizing enzyme activities in rats - PubMed

The objective of this study was to investigate the effects of iodine (I(2)) and/or selenium (Se) deficiency on thyroid hormones and hepatic xenobiotic metabolizing enzyme systems using a triple animal model. Three-week-old male Wistar rats were fed for seven weeks. Se deficiency was introduced...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If I understand it correctly, phase 2 detoxification enzymes seems to be quite dependent on selenium and iodine availability.

That’s a cool study. It matches up with my view of the iodine protocol as a very intense detox program for most common pollutants(halogens, heavy metals, etc). I’ve always thought that the value of this program isn’t in correcting iodine deficiency, but over saturating tissues with iodine/selenium to forcibly remove pollutants and prevent their reabsorption.

 

[Blossom]

Thank you for linking @LLight. It’s so interesting and helpful to look at from that angle.
@youngsinatra, I’ve seen this play out in myself and people I personally know. One thing regular tracking of blood work and body composition does is help you see your own patterns and figure out what works for you and what doesn’t. My husband and a close friend (both technically ‘overweight/obese’) for example seem to have a much higher PFT than I do. I have an Asian coworker who is more like me and as soon as her body fat goes above a certain amount (which is not even that high) lipids and glucose both start climbing.

 

[Elie]

I guess a deficiency of any of these vitamins could probably impair these mechanisms. I've found this paper about selenium and iodine interesting:

Selenium and/or iodine deficiency alters hepatic xenobiotic metabolizing enzyme activities in rats - PubMed

The objective of this study was to investigate the effects of iodine (I(2)) and/or selenium (Se) deficiency on thyroid hormones and hepatic xenobiotic metabolizing enzyme systems using a triple animal model. Three-week-old male Wistar rats were fed for seven weeks. Se deficiency was introduced...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If I understand it correctly, phase 2 detoxification enzymes seems to be quite dependent on selenium and iodine availability.

How much iodine without overdoing it do you think?
... and these 2 elements aren't the only two things required for phase 2...

 

[LLight]

How much iodine without overdoing it do you think?

Have no idea, I guess the quantity needed it the one making you not deficient, so big doses might not be required.

How much iodine without overdoing it do you think?
... and these 2 elements aren't the only two things required for phase 2...

Indeed, I'm sure there is more, hence the first sentence of my post

 

[Blossom]

Here’s a good YouTube video explaining the personal fat threshold idea more.

View: https://youtu.be/cP57oM8lBaU?si=gMbuWNY6s3ZBXXwk

 

[fractal]

Thanks @Blossom for starting this thread. I have been reading the content on Optimising Nutrition blog and found this interesting and actionable.

Data-Driven Fasting: How to Use Your Blood Glucose as a Fuel Gauge

We designed Data-Driven Fasting to help you fine-tune your eating routine and find the minimum effective dose of fasting required to get the desired results.

Data-Driven Fasting is founded on the belief that you must first deplete both the glucose and fat in your bloodstream before depleting your stored body fat. You make this magic happen by measuring your blood glucose levels and confirming they’ve dropped below your trigger before you eat.

Although there’s nothing wrong with going 24 or 36 hours (i.e., skipping a whole day) without food, you’ll sacrifice all the benefits of your voluntary deprivation if you make poor food choices when you eat again.

While some people believe that you can eat whatever you want, so long as you do it in a specific “window”, the reality is that WHAT you eat when you refuel is critical to ensuring that you get the nutrients you need in the long term. If you find yourself reaching for ice cream, cake, peanut butter or pizza after your fast, chances are you’d benefit by being a little less ambitious next time.
We use a process known as ‘Hunger Training’ to ensure that the time you spend fasting doesn’t awaken your reptilian instincts and lead to poor food choices when you eat again. ‘Hunger Training’ is an exciting approach with some fantastic outcomes in recent studies.

In her 2012 book, The Glucometer, Angela Ross recommends simply delaying eating if your blood glucose is above 5.0 mmol/L or 90 mg/dL. Note: mmol/L are the metric units for blood sugar, while mg/dL are the imperial units used in the USA. To convert mg/dL to mmol/L, divide by 18.
In Data-Driven Fasting, we use your average blood glucose before you eat — calculated based on three days of baselining — to establish your personalised trigger.

 

[Blossom]

@fractal, yes it’s truly fantastic material indeed! I was able cut my visceral fat in half doing the DDF challenge. I think I’m one of the unfortunate types that stores more fat in my viscera and organs than subcutaneously which explains why my blood markers start trending in the wrong direction if I go above a certain body fat percentage. At least I know and also know what to do about it! I’m glad another person here reads that blog.