"Keeping The Metabolic Rate Up Is The Main Thing, And There Are Lots Of Ways To Do It."

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narouz said:
Peata asked a question of Dr. P and received this answer:

Peata said:
Q's: There has been a lot of confusion on what you recommend to lose body weight/ fat. Some say reduce calories, others say you must raise calories (to lose weight). Many of us seem to be insulin resistant and unable to lose. Can you clear up your recommendations on lowing weight/fat?

Answer from RP on 4/12/15: Keeping the metabolic rate up is the main thing, and there are lots of ways to do it. Using gelatin as an extra protein source can help to raise the body temperature. Since insulin stimulates fat deposition, insulin resistance isn’t likely to lead to extra fat production.

Shall we count the ways?

What a disappointing answer.

The metabolic rate can be kept up while being in ketosis and supplementing with a little T3. This will melt stored fat like butter in a frying pan.

Of course, this isn't what he has in mind. It would be great if Peata could ask a followup question like:

"To keep the metabolic rate up, you recommend to block lipolysis in favour of glucose oxidation. By preventing the liberation and metabolism of fatty acids (i.e. lipolysis), how does one lose excess stored fat?"
 

Zachs

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Number 1 rule to lose fat in my book, you cannot eat a lot of the two main energy sources (fat and carbs) and expect to lose fat. Your body just cannot put both to use fast enough.
 

haidut

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Caffeine, DNP, anti-serotonin drugs, dopaminergic drugs, anti-estrogenic drugs, aspirin, virtually all phenols (DNP is a phenol), SCFA (especially butyrate), DHEA, pregnenolone, DHT, testosterone, fructose, cascara (and virtually all anthraquinones), vitamin K2, oxygen, etc.

The above is a small list based on the general principles that anything that restores electron flow will be termogenic and anything that inhibits it will lower core temperature.
 

haidut

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Zachs said:
Number 1 rule to lose fat in my book, you cannot eat a lot of the two main energy sources (fat and carbs) and expect to lose fat. Your body just cannot put both to use fast enough.

Correct. And if you do eat fat make sure you eat it in a way that does not trigger insulin since you will end up storing most of it instead of burning it.
 

Strongbad

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haidut said:
Correct. And if you do eat fat make sure you eat it in a way that does not trigger insulin since you will end up storing most of it instead of burning it.

Can you specify the ways to do it correctly without triggering insulin? I've gotta make sure eating the Peat-way doesn't give me diabetes or busted liver somehow.
 

haidut

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Strongbad said:
haidut said:
Correct. And if you do eat fat make sure you eat it in a way that does not trigger insulin since you will end up storing most of it instead of burning it.

Can you specify the ways to do it correctly without triggering insulin? I've gotta make sure eating the Peat-way doesn't give me diabetes or busted liver somehow.

If are willing to get most of your sugar from fruit and fruit juices then you can drink things like apple juice and grape juice since they are mostly fructose and will stimulate insulin very little. Starch should be close to zero, and if you eat starch than it better be without fat. Rice and potatoes are fine as long as you don't eat much fat with them.
In general, the more more fructose you can add to your meals the lower the insulin response will be even if the meal contains decent amounts of glucose.
Also, since protein stimulates insulin release try to eat lean protein - the leaner the better. That's why full fat cheeses are such a pound piler since milk protein powerfully stimulates insulin release and then the large amount of fat in the cheese gets stored.
Since Peat recommends protein to be eaten earlier int he day, eating low fat cheese and meat in the morning and chasing them with apple juice or Coke seems like a reasonable approach. Higher fat can be eaten in the evening - something like chocolate or icecream and you can chase that down with apple juice to increase fructose ratio. I guess each meal will depend on what you have available and trying to group foods so that higher fat meals do not include things like glucose or protein so insulin can be kept at bay. Adding fructose to any meal will attenuate whatever insulin response the meal produced.
 

Jennifer

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haidut said:
Starch should be close to zero, and if you eat starch than it better be without fat. Rice and potatoes are fine as long as you don't eat much fat with them.
I thought with starch, Ray recommends people eat fat with it to protect against the granules and to also reduce the large insulin response starch triggers?
 

haidut

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Jennifer said:
haidut said:
Starch should be close to zero, and if you eat starch than it better be without fat. Rice and potatoes are fine as long as you don't eat much fat with them.
I thought with starch, Ray recommends people eat fat with it to protect against the granules and to also reduce the large insulin response starch triggers?

I guess that would be for purposes of reducing intestinal irritation. But in terms of weight gain, noting will fatten you up quicker than starch + fat due to the huge insulin response you will get. Things like mashed potatoes with heavy cream or rice with butter. And then you will get a blood sugar crash due to the high insulin, which will activate the stress response and you will have to keep eating to stop it. Actually, replacing the the fat mentioned here with PUFA will be even more fattening but I am assuming nobody here will purposefully eat PUFA.
 

Jennifer

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haidut said:
Jennifer said:
haidut said:
Starch should be close to zero, and if you eat starch than it better be without fat. Rice and potatoes are fine as long as you don't eat much fat with them.
I thought with starch, Ray recommends people eat fat with it to protect against the granules and to also reduce the large insulin response starch triggers?

I guess that would be for purposes of reducing intestinal irritation. But in terms of weight gain, noting will fatten you up quicker than starch + fat due to the huge insulin response you will get. Things like mashed potatoes with heavy cream or rice with butter. And then you will get a blood sugar crash due to the high insulin, which will activate the stress response and you will have to keep eating to stop it. Actually, replacing the the fat mentioned here with PUFA will be even more fattening but I am assuming nobody here will purposefully eat PUFA.
Oh, I thought one of the reasons for consuming fat with starch was to reduce the huge insulin response you would get from starch on its own, thus reducing the crash afterwards. Or at least, that's what I thought Ray's opinion was. So not having fat with starch means less of an insulin response?
 

jyb

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Jennifer said:
Oh, I thought one of the reasons for consuming fat with starch was to reduce the huge insulin response you would get from starch on its own, thus reducing the crash afterwards. Or at least, that's what I thought Ray's opinion was. So not having fat with starch means less of an insulin response?

Maybe the fat is supposed to minimise the insulin spike as the meal gradually digests. Make it less extreme. But it could still be significant, a conventional starch meal has a lot of glucose so insulin should come to play.

However from a Peat perspective the sat fat with starch has other benefits such as endotoxin protection.
 

Peata

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And I'm sure I read that if you eat starch, it's best to have sugar with it to help blunt it's negative effects (I assume on insulin). I don't know if RP said that or it was someone else who eats his way.
 

Dean

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haidut said:
If are willing to get most of your sugar from fruit and fruit juices then you can drink things like apple juice and grape juice since they are mostly fructose and will stimulate insulin very little. Starch should be close to zero, and if you eat starch than it better be without fat. Rice and potatoes are fine as long as you don't eat much fat with them.
.

So if you are trying to lose weight, should you use fructose powder instead of sucrose, and even if your liver function is impaired? You seem to get most of your carbs from sucrose. Is that because you have fixed your metabolism and/or don't need to lose weight?
 

haidut

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Dean said:
haidut said:
If are willing to get most of your sugar from fruit and fruit juices then you can drink things like apple juice and grape juice since they are mostly fructose and will stimulate insulin very little. Starch should be close to zero, and if you eat starch than it better be without fat. Rice and potatoes are fine as long as you don't eat much fat with them.
.

So if you are trying to lose weight, should you use fructose powder instead of sucrose, and even if your liver function is impaired? You seem to get most of your carbs from sucrose. Is that because you have fixed your metabolism and/or don't need to lose weight?

Yes, as I mentioned in another thread once my metabolism improved and I lost all the extra weight sucrose does not seem to cause issues for me. Fructose is probably OK for hypometabolic people as long as you watch your fat intake to avoid fattening up the liver with the extra fat.
Fructose and sucrose seem to give me similar effects so I am not sure I prefer one over the other but if you are trying to lower insulin response then fructose is definitely better.
 

Xisca

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I have heard about another way to keep metabolism high!
Cold water.
Of course it has to be done in special ways. I am not a specialist of it, and I had just planned to investigate more about it, so I mention it.
I do remember about cold showers (unavaibility of hot water...), or river baths, and it was difficult but soooooo rewarding! I could feel a real warmth coming from inside me. So it did stimulate my metabolism.
As far as I remember what I have already read, you have to be warm enough when doing it, have the cold for a short time, and then go walking at a good rate. The cold water can be applied to the whole body or to some parts, for different results.
 

narouz

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haidut said:
Jennifer said:
haidut said:
Starch should be close to zero, and if you eat starch than it better be without fat. Rice and potatoes are fine as long as you don't eat much fat with them.
I thought with starch, Ray recommends people eat fat with it to protect against the granules and to also reduce the large insulin response starch triggers?

I guess that would be for purposes of reducing intestinal irritation. But in terms of weight gain, noting will fatten you up quicker than starch + fat due to the huge insulin response you will get. Things like mashed potatoes with heavy cream or rice with butter. And then you will get a blood sugar crash due to the high insulin, which will activate the stress response and you will have to keep eating to stop it. Actually, replacing the the fat mentioned here with PUFA will be even more fattening but I am assuming nobody here will purposefully eat PUFA.

I do think haidut has his own special twists on Peat.
That's okay by me. :)
 

narouz

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At work today I was thinking about this thread.
I kinda realized,
oh yeah;
if we're asking how to get the metabolism up,
we are effectively asking the same question
Peat has been trying to answer in about 90% of his work. :D

It is all--or mostly all--
about how to raise metabolism.
That is why I think a good way to think of Peat's work is
that it is
pro-metabolic or thyroid-centric
(thyroid being so central to metabolism).

I guess when I read Peata's question/Peat's reply
I had been for some reason restricting the question in my mind
to something more like:
What things can we eat
or what can we do
to immediately or quickly raise our temperature and pulse?

I mean almost all of Peat's advice is, in some sense, about raising metabolism,
isn't it?
Take for instance his advice to severely restrict PUFA.
It might take 4 years
(then again, maybe not, according to haidut's research!),
but that is all--or largely--aimed at raising metabolism.
 

tara

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Xisca said:
I have heard about another way to keep metabolism high!
Cold water.
Of course it has to be done in special ways. I am not a specialist of it, and I had just planned to investigate more about it, so I mention it.
I do remember about cold showers (unavaibility of hot water...), or river baths, and it was difficult but soooooo rewarding! I could feel a real warmth coming from inside me. So it did stimulate my metabolism.
As far as I remember what I have already read, you have to be warm enough when doing it, have the cold for a short time, and then go walking at a good rate. The cold water can be applied to the whole body or to some parts, for different results.

People who are in a low thyroid state to begin with are unlikely to be warm enough for this to stimulate metabolism in a pro-thyroid way - it's more likely to do it by raising stress hormones. You can lose weight in the short term by by raising stress hormones, but overdoing it tends to have down sides. I know the refreshing effects of cold water. I associate my lessening tolerance for cold water over the years with my worsening metabolism.

From a related perspective, Buteyko only recommended cold showers for people once their control pause was up to at least 25s, which I suspect may correlate to reasonably good thyroid function for many people. I wonder if this corresponds to a level where the body will start to generate a bit more brown adipose tissue under favourable conditions, including occasional cold challenge.
 

narouz

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Peata said:
from Salt, Energy, Metabolic Rate, and Longevity:

Protein, salt, thyroid, and progesterone happen to be thermogenic, increasing heat production and stabilizing body temperature at a higher level.

Great quote.
Peat uses the term "thermogenic."
That is what I really had in mind when I saw your question to Peat.
Heat.
Quick heat.
 
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