Exhausted And Frustrated By Contradicting Health Theories

[taylor108]

Is anyone else fed up and frustrated with all the conflicting health theories that seem to be polluting the internet and confusing everyone? It's exhausting and leaves me in a state of ambivalence about what to do for my health, because everywhere I look an opposing argument pops up telling me what I'm doing is dangerous and harmful. Don't eat fat. Wait, no, eat tons of fat! Well, don't eat too much fat. Don't eat carbs. Eat only carbs. Eat only fruit carbs, not starch. Eat just starch!

There seems to be a scientific claim that supports every diet imaginable, and then another scientific claim refuting that diet. How does one sift through it all? Especially since I'm not a scientifically inclined person, and most deep-level discussion of hormones, glucose, fructose, tryglicerides, etc. goes right over my head.

I guess I want to know people's personal opinion on these topics:
1. Carbs-do you favor high, low, or moderate? Do you think there is an ideal level for humans, or is it really just specific to each person?

2. Starch-how much do you eat? Or not at all?

3. Why do some people get very lean on a raw food/HCLF vegan diet, and some get fatter (assuming that these people are not overdoing it on nuts and other fats, and are just eating fruit)?

4. Do you believe there is any benefit to IF, or is it more beneficial to be regular with your calories?

5. How important do you think calories are? And how important do you think each macro is (ie, do you think it is sustainable to follow a diet higher in some macros than others)

6. Exercise-I know Ray Peat is anti-stress, but what do you personally favor for exercise?

7.Sugar-everything I see either says it is toxic and the reason America is obese, or that it is beneficial and can help people lose weight. How much sugar do you eat, do you limit it to specific forms, and do you believe sugar can be/is harmful?

I like to hear about people's personal diet/exercise routines, and their past dietary experiences. So, if you have any story or advice you want to share, that would be great.

 

[Blossom]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

Hi taylor108. A Peat inspired approach for me has been about getting away from all the misinformation floating around and finally finding a sensible way to restore metabolism and ultimately health. This is an interesting topic you've raised and I'm sure many here remember feeling the same way before discovering Peat's scientifically based ideas that have helped so many people. His work is like a breath of fresh air. Welcome to the forum.

 

[pboy]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

at the end of the day, you have to use your own logic and intuition...and then experiment and pay attention. You can get a lot of nice insight from Ray Peats work

1: carbs, enough....not excessive, probably a good 60% of diet...I think this is a nice amount, you could go a little over or under but not much or you wont feel optimum

2: starch, I eat occasional tuber starch, it digest so much easier than grain starch and is an occasional nice fiber to remove old biliary toxins. I don't like raw carrots, I prefer just to cook peeled roots really well, boiled. They do seem to take more time in preparing, cleaning, and eating...but on occasion they are a useful tool for rapid glycogen refilling and if you've been drinking too much plain water they can bring you back into balance. I prefer sugars mostly though, and grains give me quite strange reactions...I went without any starch for a long time, then after some experimenting realized theres quite a big difference between grain starch and tuber starch. Basically it seems like an allergy, and its to any grain starch...because I went so long without em im sensitive and quite aware or things. Breath gets tighter, voice pitch goes up, slight gaba almost sedative effect, yet a hint hyperactive in lower body...dunno, its subtle but coupled with the fact grains are an imbalanced weak source of nutrition, and a time waster...I don't even mess with them. Beans either for the same reasons + gas. They might have a role in certain situations for people...but I think they are a way less than ideal, back up, back up, plan...and then, you should use one of the techniques to make them easier to digest...which I haven't gotten really into

3: really lean on raw food HCLF vegan...because they don't eat a lot of salt, or polyunsaturated or added fats...that's basically it, anyone would have the same thing happen. The reason its not ideal is because generally you are always pushing having a watered down metabolism with just enough (or too low) protein, takes most of your day finding prepping and chewing food, and you pretty much have variable violent to just uncomfortable digestion all the time (I know, ive eaten similar in the past)

4: benefit to IF or regular calories...regular calories, unless life demands you have to go without for a bit. Times and situations are unpredictable, so its better to eat when you can in a comfortable setting, not rushing...so when things do come up your generally pretty prepared or can handle it. IF really is a silly weight loss technique trying to manipulate hormones, but really it just slows down your metabolism over time, then you have to cram in food because of the shorter eating window an that's generally uncomfortable, or you eat so fast you don't chew and it creates gas and what not...or you just get incapacitatedly full, or end up not getting enough calories...I think you should save fasting time for when you sleep and if the day throws you a curve ball

5: importance of macros and calories...for sure important, but not like something to glorify or make a story about...its situational to which combos of foods you are
eating, your lifestyle, and size I suppose...its best to find how many calories you need to get through a day comfortably, then don't go beyond that...not because of weight reasons, but because why would you want to spend more time on food, money on food than you need? Figure out which combos digest well for you, about how much you need and that doesn't take a lot of time, and roll with that. Don't trip on this

6: exercise: its a bad idea and ineffective for weight loss. If you are doing it for fun, or to grow in an area...like become better at a sport, increase times, get stronger...its all good, but only if you treat it like a real athlete would...ie, go into it with good glycogen store, rehydrate and fill glycogen properly right after exercise (or soon after), recover, good sleep, don't exercise when injured...stuff like that. If you do it when not feeling it, against your will, and don't eat properly, it damages your metabolism and eventually body (and your mood will be off)

7: sugar is definitely not the cause of the obesity, though it can be an irritant in other ways...like as a heavy osmol agent. It takes a certain amount of potassium to absorb sugar and usher it into cells to burn, which is why fruit never causes sugar issues, beans, root vegetables...because they all have plenty of potassium, yet grains and sweeteners can cause sugar issues if you don't balance them heavily with other things that have potassium, or just use a really small amount. Sugar itself is huge for mood, metabolism, and all that...but you have to be mindful of the minerals its coming with...just eating candy, soda, or straight sugar, baked goods will really slow your metabolism and increase stress hormones, but adding a spoon of sugar to coffee, a couple, or to milk...or having a dark chocolate with a little sugar, theres enough potassium to metabolise it. Be smart about it basically

theres too much for me to say about what ive tried... pretty much everything...except meathead stuff. Ill just answer any specific questions like above rather than try to spell it all out.

It is annoying all the info out there...but the only true way out of it is to have such intimate experience in a diverse range of things yourself that you can laugh at things and see other people for what, where they really are. It took me 6years to reach this place...and I made it an every day, all day effort...so basically I don't think many people ever know entirely by the end of their life. Most people have something that kinda works, but isn't conclusive at all...or doesn't work at all, or theyre kinda lucky about some things and others are off...or theyre hanging on by a thread...most of it is just marketing and money based, even health professionals and alternative medicine people don't have a clue...some ideas and directions, but honestly ive yet to see or read many people (less than a handful...and they still have their flaws or incompletions) who really have a decent grasp and get it. A true master can make things clear and simple...other people mystify or don't tie it all together...hence they don't have a good grasp. I have a good grasp of what I know...but im still getting more expansive and encompassing, and at the same time simplifying

 

[Velve921]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

I just want to add in a quick note about IF...I would strongly discourage anyone to try IF. At first it feels fine but after 4 months I developed an excessive urination issue that has gone on for 3.5 years now. I have seen over 10 specialists my issue is absolutely unheard of in the medical and hollistic community. Pboy is right...leave the fasting for bed time. I am not saying this will happen to everybody but my case makes sense with exactly everything Ray Peat is talking about with damage to the body from the release of fatty acids, break down of tissue, and high adrenaline.

 

[taylor108]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

Thank you for your responses everyone!

I have implemented many of Peat's recommendations into my daily life over a long period of time. I feel better-I didn't have any major health problems beforehand, but overall I feel they are helping me. Before Peat, I was doing a Warrior Diet style of eating where I would only have black coffee before 5 or so and then eat a larger meal. I was also doing the 5:2 diet where I ate below 500 calories twice a week. Just was doing a lot of crazy things to lose weight, like implementing zero carb days where I would run 5 miles, etc. Terrible for me. I lost a good amount weight, but I was always tired, moody, and energy levels were way, way down. It was exhausting just climbing stairs sometimes. I definitely do not want to go back to this way of living, but I have gained some weight since then and miss the leanness. I know weight loss is far more about vanity and aesthetics, but like many people who come to the WOE, it is hard to mentally resolve. Have any of you seen improved body composition with this WOE(tired question, I know, sorry)? What diet is the most effective for increasing metabolic function?

In addition-I know now that low carb is not the way to go. But for every person advocating a higher carb diet, there's a fear mongerer who shouts the words of Taubes, saying we will die from obesity if we eat too much fruit. What, in your guys' opinion, causes obesity?

Do any of you believe there is truth to low-palatibility diets being effective for lowering weight set points(ie, SLD diet, potato diet, etc.)?

 

[BingDing]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

Welcome to the forum! Everybody here is fed up and frustrated with the conflicting information, LOL.

There are no black and white answers about macronutrients, the question is incomplete. For me, getting adequate protein resolved it all, carbs and fats come to a certain level on any given day and it works.

Ray's central thesis is that thyroid is the main regulator of metabolism and a strong metabolism is the essence of good health. Everything he says supports that thesis.

That was my buy in point once I understood it; there is no other thesis that is so sane, so fundamentally sound, or so broadly applicable.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

What, in your guys' opinion, causes obesity?

Said in simple words although generalizing a bit. The increased stimulus for fat formation and a lower capacity of the metabolism. Caused by mainly: Environmental toxins, PUFA, stress, grains, followed by altered flora and lowered metabolism, this creates a vicious cycle of stress, gut permeability and systemic low grade inflammation, influx of internal toxins, exhausted hormonal system and ultimately a completely shut down metabolism.

Toxins from our external and internal environment cause our body to make 'dirty' fat to lessen the toxicity. Stress from external and internal sources increases your cortisol which makes you store the fat as belly fat, and also cause you to eat more in general (when this is acute this offsets stress, if this is prolonged it simply makes you fat). All these things go hand in hand and also lower our ability to oxidize fats and expecially sugars even more.

All the other aspects of calories, exercise is neatly said by Pboy. Depending on your state reverting the situation by just removing the original burden can be enough. Only thing I want to add that, I think is important to recognize, sugar can indeed be a major toxin if small intestinal overgrowth is present, however In case this overgrowth is present basically everything you eat is a toxin!! Just fat can't be converted into D-lactid acid, while sugar can. In that case people should normalize their thyroid asap and follow the feeling of their body to create strategies, for example when or in which food combinations you can tolerate sugar the best. Even then sugar is absolutely protective when you learned how to use it.

 

[Amazoniac]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

1. To a certain degree, our body tries to regulate the delivery of macronutrients according to demand. So, in my opinion, every extreme will be compensated in attempt to reach balance.. I would try to consume the minimal of each one for optimal function.
A good place to start is the composition of milk.

2. According to what I witness in this forum, most people here are not a big fan of starch mainly due to endotoxins and glucose to fructose intake ratio.
I prefer the consumption of starch for carbohydrate but only if you don't have any digestive problems. But I have to agree with Ray Peat that, if someone has any gastrointestinal problems, starch should be zero.

3. A lot of people claiming improvements from these extremes come from bad diets. They immediately notice the positive effects but in the long term they create new problems. It's not rare to find testimonials like 'why I'm not 100% raw anymore' or 'why I'm not a vegan anymore'.
It depends on where they come from.

4. Stress only becomes a real problem if it's chronic. Fasting is stressful but in my opinion is beneficial if done once in a while as a hormetic stressor. Restricting your food intake to a closer window on the other hand is beneficial if you don't feel like a burden. Since food takes some time to be digested, with these restricted windows you can create a cycle of digesting and giving a break.

5. Calories are important but their quality is even more important simply because ingesting empty calories will deplete you little by little. On the other hand, if you follow a nutrient dense diet, eating processed foods once in a while is not a problem at all!

6. The standard: move frequently at a slow pace (which is the most important and cannot be compensated by short bursts once in while), sprint and lifting heavy weights once in a while for stimulative stress.

7. Sugar, just like everything, is toxic in high doses or if you aren't nourished enough to deal with it. Also gut microbiota plays an important role on your reaction to sugar intake.

As far as advice, consider what someone says but doubt it. The majority of us are still struggling with different issues and preaching guidelines. Research will put you on the right track and experimentation will leave you hints about your sweet spots.

 

[arien]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

What, in your guys' opinion, causes obesity?

Growth and the synthesis of mass are primitive biological functions. A high rate of metabolism, of which greater neurological innervation is a natural concomitant, will suppress these functions in order to permit more differentiated development. If the metabolic rate is impeded, the organism's outward structure will necessarily reflect this retrogression, in accordance with the availability of structural substrate. In the west, where food of a certain quality is abundant, we experience obesity. In other cultures, cells can't even manage that.

There are powerful forces in this world striving to effect such metabolic impediment upon the general populace. The chosen physical means are the widespread proliferation of dietary polyunsaturated fats, bombardment with electromagnetic radiation, environmental oestrogens and numerous other factors which systematically raise the structural temperature of water. Swelling, cell division and the synthesis of mass follow increased wetness, inasmuch as the availability of nutrients permits.

At the conscious level, we are indoctrinated by the Prussian education system into our particular echelon within Plato's Great Chain of Being. We are explicitly and implicitly inculcated with an understanding of an eternal, divine authoritarian structure and the associated view of living substance. Thus, you learn that your physical structure is nothing more than the operation of a genetic algorithm, the function of which may only be changed by an act of God, the random mutation, the consequences of which are most probably negative. Any conscious orientation toward improvement of oneself and the social structure in which one finds himself is therefore futile and must be relinquished. Consequently, we are consciously trained from infancy to de-innervate our tissues. Within a certain environment, obesity is a particular result thereof.

Modulation of one's environment to support greater production of carbon dioxide and, as a necessary requisite, one's orientation to his environment, will tend one away from a vegetative equilibrium.

 

[gretchen]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

I'm a dogmatist; I think RP is right and just about everyone else is wrong. . But then, that's because a lot if not all Peat's ideas are highly researched and over many decades.

I would read other nutritionists and writers/ so called "experts" and also those who are Peatish to compare views. Also, your own experience has to count for something.....I'm amazed the longer I try Peat's ideas how true they seem to be, as opposed to most of the other advice I've gotten (low carbs, exercise, PUFAs, estrogen, fasting, green vegetables, juicing, etc.)

Ari Whitten, who is Peatish, explains obesity very well in his book Forever Fat Loss. The book is based on the ideas of Stephen Gueynet, actually. He says the main causes are

-Food variety (too many choices)
-Food palatability (high reward--food with strong flavors) and
-Circadian rhythms: poor sleep habits which result in inappropriate light exposure--blue light at night, not enough daylight during the day, which messes the brain up.

It's a good book; I recommend it.

I was semi-paleo (low carb with few grains, sugar and dairy) throughout the 2000s. As a result I have dental damage; part of one tooth on my lower teeth is chipped off. For a few years afterwards (2008-2012) I had no clue though that my way of eating/living was unhealthy and was shocked when I stepped on a scale and weighed 90 lbs. I was never hungry and of course there was nothing I could eat ever, except some protein, vegetables, one piece of fruit a day, dark chocolate or the occasional glass of wine or gluten-free toast.

I also did the Warrior Diet in 2011/2012 and started doing my own px90 style cardio routine, complete with burpees and a techno soundtrack. I did a lot of cardio as a teen so this felt good to me. I thought it was helping my body to detox estrogen .... As I got back in to it I convinced myself I was "born to run", like that book about the Taramuhara suggests. One day I actually ran indoors for a whole hour barefoot, from one end of my apartment to the other.

At the end of 2011 I got a photo ID that showed my neck as all swollen and literally blackish-blue. I wasn't sure what to do.... Maybe buy a scarf? I burned out on exercise so it decided based on the advice of a fitness guru named Bova that I'd try the Atkins butter fast. For 12 weeks in the spring of 2012 I lived on one stick of butter 4 days a week. On the weekends, I binged.

Sometime during all of this I had to argue down coffee on a girly skincare forum, and landed on a site with a ice cream cone and sombrero on it and a lot of articles. I was sooooo tired all I could do was book mark; I would get back to it later.

The day I did I paid my rent with a money order and didn't get a receipt and also gave the receipt to the order. That day I decided to read The Great Fish Oil Experiment. The next day, I started drinking milk again after 20 years of avoidance.

 

[taylor108]

Re: Exhausted and frustrated by contradicting health theorie

gretchen, I will definitely be checking that book out since I agree with those factors. Hyperpalatable foods especially-I can down thousands of calories worth of pizza and ice cream, but give me plain boiled potatoes and my appetite will be gone after a couple, no matter how hungry I am. Hyperpatability is never mentioned as a cause of obesity and overeating though.

I'm interested that you experienced binging tendencies on a butter fast, but not low carb. Low carb was definitely a binge-causing WOE for me. That, I think, is the main reason I believe Peat is a step in the right direction-I have never eaten a way that made me so perfectly content to just eat the recommended foods and nothing else, and I have no desire to eat "bad" foods or binge. No feelings of deprivation or even cravings. That means the most to me.

What does your diet and exercise look like now gretchen, if you don't mind me asking? Especially exercise-I have had points in my life of obsessive cardio to lose fat, and it's a hard mindset to move away from.

Totally agree with own experience. I have implemented Peat's ideas one by one basically over about a year. Mostly everything so far has been a positive change, and if it wasn't I wouldn't be here.