Frustrated

[leo]

Noo Moahk...may I ask what are extremely high doses for you? I take turmeric for the occasional back flare up due to a fall several years ago. Do you take it in capsule form or on your food? I take mine with milk....some recommend black pepper but Peat says pepper is not good.

 

[jaguar43]

Jag: You are correct. I am not immersed in Ray Peat's work. I am only beginning to learn and as far as I know, that is allowed... correct? Or should I leave now because I am not as smart as you?

Right here is why I feel Peat is such a great educator. When does he ever try to make someone feel badly about themselves because they don't get it like he does. He has humility, and that is the most attractive quality a man can have.

No hostility....maybe sarcasm. I just felt that with the symptoms I was describing, your suggestions were overreactive. Like telling a doctor you have a recent headache and him suggesting exploratory surgery of the brain.

Not really good advice for a newbie and j. called you on it.

Its hard to tell on the internet whether its sarcasm.

If you are just beginning to learn about ray peat than you should exhaust most of his resources. Their are many interviews, articles, interpretations online. You say in your OP that Ray Peat and this forum is vague but thats not really true. Many threads and articles have been made are about weight loss when using his recommendations. Ray Peat is a scientist above anything else, he tries to explain within context. If he gave you a diet plan, their would be many factors involved. Thats why he generalizes.

No actually like I said before a pituitary tumor is very common and barely has sides. But its easy to treat. bromocriptine and cabergoline are extremely successful in treating pituitary tumors. You could have searched in the search bar "pituitary tumor" and you would have ran into a lady post whos daughter tumor disappeared within five days taking bromocriptine.

I don't think my post was rude.

 

[BingDing]

Leo- sugar is one of the biggest changes to get used to with Peat. As he says in this article there is a cult of "sugar is bad". And not only is sugar healthy, fructose is, too. I'll try to find some threads that explain it in plainer language than RP does:

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml

 

[NooMoahk]

Noo Moahk...may I ask what are extremely high doses for you? I take turmeric for the occasional back flare up due to a fall several years ago. Do you take it in capsule form or on your food? I take mine with milk....some recommend black pepper but Peat says pepper is not good.

I considered extreme to be a few tablespoons 3 times a day for a few days.

 

[NooMoahk]

Noo Moahk...may I ask what are extremely high doses for you? I take turmeric for the occasional back flare up due to a fall several years ago. Do you take it in capsule form or on your food? I take mine with milk....some recommend black pepper but Peat says pepper is not good.

I considered extreme to be a few tablespoons 3 times a day for a few days.

EDIT: Almost forgot. I took it straight, with sips of water but I agree that a fatty liquid is better. I've taken it with milk since then for a wrist injury and it was effective using much less than when I didn't use milk.

 

[leo]

Jag: In order to not appear tunnel visioned, I googled symptoms of pituitary tumor and I do not have even one of the symptoms listed. Therefore I do not wish to continue the discussion of tumors... but thank you anyway.

BingDing: I am coming around to changing my view on table sugar. Guess my problem is that it is refined and things are added/subtracted and I formed part of the cult in thinking that it was not healthy. Thanks for the link....I have read it several times in the past, but I find that I have to do that with most of Peat's articles. It is hard for me to retain all of the information, but I have no problems with referencing often.

NooMauhk: I take much less...but good to know in case I ever have a flare up....I will try more. thnx

 

[sara n.]

I have had a history of allergies and very serious chronic sinus infections. I took prednisone tapers 3 times in my life, 2 for acute serious skin reactions and 1 for a sinus infection that was becoming dangerous. The infections and reactions got worse every time and this is the when i developed the more serious stomach irritation as well. That last serious infection I just said no more to Pred and I have never had allergies that serious ever again(also largely because I avoid gluten now). I would only take an immune system inhibiting corticosteroid if it meant life or death after my experiences. Extremely high doses of turmeric saved me from steroids after that decision.

We each have to do what we feel is best according to our ideas about meds, the amount of pain we are in, as well as reactions to any personal N=1 experiments. Unluckily for me not taking prednisone when I needed it, and not taking antihistamines when needed produces nothing but extreme pain and suffering. I once refused to take anything while suffering through an entire 14 months of severe hives and angioedema, with incredible itching and burning pain. LOL, I finally tracked the trigger, stopped it, and it gradually got better (meaning reactions haven't been that bad or anywhere near that constant since). But for years afterwards I went into actual embarrassing hysterics at ANY twinge of an itch. That year seems to have used up my entire supply of pain tolerance. Now, I take what I need as and when I need it. "what I need" being defined as what works to stop the skin reactions as much as possible. I do have a whole protocol of ramping up so that I don't continually overdose, but only take as much as is required to produce results. I have read good things about turmeric, but cannot personally take it as it makes me worse. But that got me thinking, I do use a homemade seasoning salt mix, and I need to check if it contains turmeric, and make some without if it does.

 

[freal]

I gotta be careful on the Ray Peat diet, I know you can be tempted to base your diet on chocolate and cheap juices and canned tuna or something like that.

-chocolate is extremely high in lead- that probably messes you up and constipates you, not too mention chocolate i already naturally constipating
-cheap juices- high in pesticides, apple juice has has heavy metal content- the legal limit for it is 50ng/ml of lead, imagine that
-canned tuna is a no no, only once in a while
-dont be paranoid about gluten, have it once every 3 days
- dont eat canned fruits and sodas, only a little

You gotta plan you meals.

 

[leo]

freal thank you.

I really don't do anything that you listed above. Only eat canned things when the other option is not available, ie, oysters. Used to love chocolate, but have not had any since Peating, other than a chocolate hagaan daz. Other than that....pretty clean.

And I've always avoided gluten so no need to add it in now.

I agree....a lot of meal planning!

 

[NooMoahk]

I have had a history of allergies and very serious chronic sinus infections. I took prednisone tapers 3 times in my life, 2 for acute serious skin reactions and 1 for a sinus infection that was becoming dangerous. The infections and reactions got worse every time and this is the when i developed the more serious stomach irritation as well. That last serious infection I just said no more to Pred and I have never had allergies that serious ever again(also largely because I avoid gluten now). I would only take an immune system inhibiting corticosteroid if it meant life or death after my experiences. Extremely high doses of turmeric saved me from steroids after that decision.

We each have to do what we feel is best according to our ideas about meds, the amount of pain we are in, as well as reactions to any personal N=1 experiments. Unluckily for me not taking prednisone when I needed it, and not taking antihistamines when needed produces nothing but extreme pain and suffering. I once refused to take anything while suffering through an entire 14 months of severe hives and angioedema, with incredible itching and burning pain. LOL, I finally tracked the trigger, stopped it, and it gradually got better (meaning reactions haven't been that bad or anywhere near that constant since). But for years afterwards I went into actual embarrassing hysterics at ANY twinge of an itch. That year seems to have used up my entire supply of pain tolerance. Now, I take what I need as and when I need it. "what I need" being defined as what works to stop the skin reactions as much as possible. I do have a whole protocol of ramping up so that I don't continually overdose, but only take as much as is required to produce results. I have read good things about turmeric, but cannot personally take it as it makes me worse. But that got me thinking, I do use a homemade seasoning salt mix, and I need to check if it contains turmeric, and make some without if it does.

14 months... I can't even fathom. I might even consider that life threatening purely due to stress related degeneration.

 

[sara n.]

14 months... I can't even fathom. I might even consider that life threatening purely due to stress related degeneration.

I am on a chronic urticarial list, and believe it or not, there are people who have been in that horrible state for years on end. On that list, 14 months is nothing.

 

[freal]

freal thank you.

I really don't do anything that you listed above. Only eat canned things when the other option is not available, ie, oysters. Used to love chocolate, but have not had any since Peating, other than a chocolate hagaan daz. Other than that....pretty clean.

And I've always avoided gluten so no need to add it in now.

I agree....a lot of meal planning!

Well I dont know, I have no doubt there are few holes in the Ray Peat world or his theories. It is constipating, but the carrots fix this problem in my case, I thinks so. Then there is the acid reflux problem.

But then again I would not base my diet on fish, even lower on the food chain there is still a lot of heavy metals and toxins. I would eat those only occasionally. The far north of the Pacific was still extremely clean and fishes like Alaskan salmon (probably still is but is expensive) or pollock when tested very extremely low in toxins. Until Fukushima. but all fish are high in those long chain unsaturated fatty acids which are the worst kind.

Maybe if you worte what you daily meals consist of someone could see what is wrong. I think meals should be enjoyed, not just something put together. It has to be rounded with a little culinary touch.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Ari: thank you ....that is quite helpful information and something that I can use right away. I will try to be more in tune with the salt intake. Also, I know that my carb intake has not been higher than the protein, so that is something else I will adjust.

That alone might be a big part of your problem; too much protein to sugar ratio.
My understanding from the reading that I've done is that Peat recommends 70-100 grams of protein (according to activity level) and 180-250 grams of carbs (according to activity level) for the normal person. I would hazard a guess that you're probably on the lower end of those numbers.

Also, about the silica; you can get silica-free stuff from Pure Encapsulations. They make pretty clean stuff; you can read all the labels and order it online. The silica is not the capsule; those are usually made up of cellulose or gelatin; silica isn't necessary in any of those supplements.

 

[cbar09]

Piggybacking on Ari here, I think mineral balance (typically Mg, Na, K and Ca) is very important for the body to maintain efficient metabolism. It's quite easy to binge on any one of those minerals without ingesting much of the others. OJ is almost all potassium (with a bit of Mg), milk is mostly Ca, water has none and will completely dilute your blood, and eating a big meal of salted protein will usually be deficient in K, Ca, Mg or all three.

So it makes sense to drink OJ (K) paired with a salty snack (Na), or milk (Ca) along with coffee (Mg), salt (Na), and fruit (K) or what have you.

Recently, I've found drinking a combination of high-content mineral water with salted OJ will make me feel very good and usually raise temps and improve circulation. If you have access to Gerolsteiner mineral water, it has a very good Ca/Mg/CO2 content - http://www.scientificpsychic.com/health ... -label.jpg

Also a good quote from Linus Pauling whom I've seen Ray Peat reference in several articles:

"You can trace every sickness, every disease, and every ailment to a mineral deficiency." - Dr. Linus Pauling, two-time Nobel Prize winner

 

[loess]

Sounds good to me cbar09. What say we all take a swim in a nice big pool of chocolate milk? We can tote around goblets of salted OJ with little polka dot drink umbrellas, and then hike down to the beach for a dip in the ocean.

[thumbnail]http://i.imgur.com/uvPukD3.jpg[/thumbnail]

 

[Ari]

Piggybacking on Ari here, I think mineral balance (typically Mg, Na, K and Ca) is very important for the body to maintain efficient metabolism. It's quite easy to binge on any one of those minerals without ingesting much of the others. OJ is almost all potassium (with a bit of Mg), milk is mostly Ca, water has none and will completely dilute your blood, and eating a big meal of salted protein will usually be deficient in K, Ca, Mg or all three.

So it makes sense to drink OJ (K) paired with a salty snack (Na), or milk (Ca) along with coffee (Mg), salt (Na), and fruit (K) or what have you.

Recently, I've found drinking a combination of high-content mineral water with salted OJ will make me feel very good and usually raise temps and improve circulation. If you have access to Gerolsteiner mineral water, it has a very good Ca/Mg/CO2 content - http://www.scientificpsychic.com/health ... -label.jpg

Also a good quote from Linus Pauling whom I've seen Ray Peat reference in several articles:

"You can trace every sickness, every disease, and every ailment to a mineral deficiency." - Dr. Linus Pauling, two-time Nobel Prize winner

Great post. I actually noticed my dark chocolate consumption (Mg) going down when I started using Magnesium oil daily. That was the first time I started thinking in terms of minerals.

But about Gerolsteiner - it is definitely the best tasting mineral water i've ever gotten my hands on here in the states. Much better than San Pellegrino or Perrier (does perrier even count?). Wish I could find it again, might have to order it online.

 

[BingDing]

There is a thread here about adding minerals to distilled water and it evolves into how to make your own mineral water. There are some links toward the end for a guy who has recipes for different brands. Gerolsteiner is apparently one of the harder ones to make.

 

[Ari]

That thread was an interesting read... made me appreciate Gerolsteiner even more.. and made me want to buy it as well. Want to avoid getting it online though because i'm not sure if I will get a glass or plastic bottle.. gonna look for it out and about.

 

[Alive-n-Kicking]

Rolan:

So many of you are young....and male.....and that makes it all the more easy. I am 61 yr old female....it takes a lot more for me to lose a pound. I think Peat has always been one of those skinnie minnies who doesn't gain a pound ever with that amount of milk he drinks...unbelievable. I have to be very careful not to enter my senior years with excess weight and flagged lab tests. I do not want to undo all the good I've done over these past few years when I finally got into taking care of my own health.



I am not looking for perfection....I am just looking to not gain weight. It may sound vain to some, but it is an important and emotional issue for me. I also do not want flagged labs when I had perfect labs before. So my issue is trying to find how to remedy these things before just giving up and going back to the way I was before. I do realize most people here are still trying to find their way....but then therein lies my frustration.....I'm not finding many success stories.

Hi Leo,

I just found this form about 2 days ago and read your posts yesterday. Before reading your post, I was just going to lurk for awhile as I too have recently come to Peat (actually revisited after reading much of his articles about 2 years ago and deciding it wasn't for me just then). Anyway I'm coming out of hiding because I want you to know...

I GET you!

First a little about me. I'm in my mid 50's. I have excellent health - never get sick have good energy almost all the time and look pretty good. I lost about 30lbs a couple years ago by modifying my diet and resistance training. I am not super low carb - more a controlled carb (little grain, little refined sugar, plenty of fruit and veggies) also I take a carb refeed day once a week where anything goes so it's also a calorie spike day. Produce is organic and animal products only from properly raised animals. My big Peat offenders were PUFAs in nuts and avocados plus I eat a fair amount of greens and I don't consume much sugar other than the fruit. Anyway, that's been working for me except I've always had cold hands and feet and I would wake up during the night to pee. So the idea of warm hands and feet and sleeping through the night is something that intrigued me. Never occurred to me to take my temps (WOW they are low). I didn't think I had low metabolism because I maintain my weight and I take my calorie spike day.

So... for those of you who wonder why if I'm so healthy I'd consider a change, I see my path as one of constant adjustment based on continuously searching for the best truth for me and my body. Change is accepted. Any of you who have read through the work of Weston Price know he found many very healthy groups of people who ate significantly different diets so is there really just one narrow diet that works for everyone or is there a range of fluctuation given some standard rules?

Moreover, I argue that what Leo refers to as vanity is more than just vanity. There is age discrimination in US society and some others and if you can look younger than your chronological age and/or just exude a healthy aura, that's something to go after. On top of that, since you can't stop aging, getting older with the best possible health is deal for a long and productive life.

Leo, if you were really low carb, there is no way you could add in the carb levels in Peat and not gain weight for some time. I'm not going to assert I am in anyway medically trained but how the body reacts to significant carbs when having been deprived of them is fairly well documented. 10lbs is not that much as I'm guessing more than half of it is water weight. I didn't see (I apologize if I missed it) how long you have been at this but it would likely take some months before you'd see any change. First I'd think it would be some body recomp (especially if you workout with resistance training) and then as your metabolism comes up, a gradual drop of of some weight. Would you be OK if in the end, you weighed 5lbs more than you did when you started but looked as good or better?

I am post menopausal so Leo I get how you are likely to get concerned about the weight gain as our metabolisms become so much more difficult to fire up. And yes, any man has a higher metabolism and young men in their 30's don't really know now how 'easy' they have it. But keep your spirits up and if you want to PM me, go ahead. :)

Nancy

 

[leo]

Hi Nancy and thank you for that. I was beginning to think I was the only 'senior' in the group, and yes it can get frustrating. When you're young you think you will be that way forever...I never thought weight would be a 'thing' with me as both my parents were very slim. Something changed along the way and it became an issue and once you have been overweight and struggled, and then finally found the way to lose it, you become very testy about gaining again.

I have been making changes left and right, trying to find my balance. I was able to lose a few pounds, but gained them back due to eating out. This is my challenge as we eat out a lot.

I have been reading a guy whose theory for successful weight loss involves cycling of foods....doing low carb for a while and then high carb/sugar. This way the body ultimately is getting everything nature has to offer, but not in a way to cause weight gain.

The reason I began Peating was to help with sleep and it did initially....very well. Now I feel the milk/sugar combo is not working as well....so it may have to do with overall calories consumed in one day,. as before I was eating to limit, and now I am cutting back some.

I will continue to tweak here and there, and maybe take the plunge to do a 2 week low carb stint and test it.

Again thank you for your input.