Frustrated

J

j.

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Haha, jag, you should've mentioned stuff about tumors only AFTER she showed you high results, which probably wasn't even going to happen.
 

NooMoahk

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leo said:
When many of you say "I can't handle" or "I don't do well" or whatever when talking about foods...you are referring to digestion? Gas? Bloating? My problem is I can eat anything and not get a bad reaction so I cannot say if something is doing me service or not. The only thing that has ever caused me diarrhea was eating a huge mango in one sitting. And now on peat I have off on constipation which I never had in my life so I'm figuring due to low fibre. I don't eat now...but used to eat starches and also did not get digestive reactions.

Pretty much, yes. With the protein for example I just can't eat that much and have any volume left in the day for juice, milk, watermelon, whatever. It just doesn't digest fast enough to support my caloric needs. Not to mention, when I drink a lot of liquids it hinders my ability to digest enough protein or starch to satisfy. With lots(practically any amount of raw greens) of fiber I can hardly eat anything without feeling painful fullness due to trapped gasses and intestinal cramping making my stomach refuse to empty in a timely manner. This is a double whammy because gluten intolerance gave me some painful stomach irritation, wherein, excessive amounts of acids can cause pain when the stomach is too stretched. Too bad protein needs the sulfuric acid, huh? I just can't digest enough calories without sugar or starch and with starch it complicates things a bit more not to mention it doesn't fulfill my needs for b-vitamins and stuff.

There just aren't a lot of options for me until I can eat more fiber or cure my stomach irritation(another thread another day). Peat eating keeps my thyroid working better than I can even remember in childhood and it's the easiest on my digestion. I worship the poop gods, long forsaken as I have been. Without pooping I simply deteriorate.
 

NooMoahk

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j. said:
leo said:
ITOO MUCH PROTEIN. Yes....and not followed by enough sugar!!

I think it's more important for protein to be preceded, not followed, by sugar. Glycogen stores (sugar stores in the liver) should be full when you consume protein, otherwise the protein will be wasted as energy. That's why RP advises one glass of orange juice (fructose) and of milk (lactose) about 15 minutes before eating an egg.

Often, when I consume fruit juices or milk, a few minutes later I'm craving an egg. I think that's because the glycogen stores are full and my body is ready to process that egg.

My experience exactly. If I eat egg before any carbs it's a losing battle and I'm in low blood sugar hell for awhile. Basically exactly how Peat explains requiring a few glasses of OJ to balance it, but it works so much better if my metabolism is already cranking since burning protein for glucose apparently sucks in my body. It's all relative to your needs! My lifelong issues are lack of bowel movements, low blood sugar, fatigue, coldness, etc. Classic thyroid stuff it seems so I'm damn glad I found Dr. Peat. I'm also SUPER thankful that I didn't have problems with boatloads of animal lactations. Used to get a stuffed nose and post nasal drip from store bought milk before peating. Couldn't say if it's the higher quality milk or lessening of allergenic symptoms from being healthier.
 

frustrated

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leo said:
Frustrated is an understatement.

Is there one soul out there that continues to eat in this way and not inflate like a balloon??

I cannot continue to gain weight like this. Fundamentally anything that causes this much weight gain cannot be healthy....I cannot accept that I have to get fat to get high temps. And what has me second guessing this is that I considered myself very healthy prior to peating. It is only now, that I get flagged labs. Only now high blood sugar. Only now that I had issues with bp. Only now that I am constipated. My only improvement to how I was prior to peaking is better sleep and better energy.

My greater problem however, is after having read Peat and wanting to believe it is the better path, and then now having to return to a lesser path. I wanted peating to work...but I cannot go back to being overweight. I do not understand the people here who are doing so well and not gaining weight? The minute I try to space more time between meals, or try to reduce portion sizes, my temps plummet. I am so tempted to throw that damned thermometer away and never even give a flip about my temperatures! I feel I am missing out on life...trying to get this perfected. My friends are out lunching and I am at home counting macronutrients.

Sorry to rant. I really had high hopes. I love sleeping better. I love eating fruit again as well as milk. There are things about this I truly appreciate more than my other way of eating. But for all the hype about how unhealthy low carbing is, no one can deny it is the best tool to lose weight. I lost over 35 lbs and have kept it off effortlessly for over 4 years. Only now have I begun to gain....had I stayed at it I believe I would have been a success story and not a yo -yoer.

I also feel lost of this forum. I'm not complaining....only frustrated at not having what I need when I need it.....I like to have a plan always. I know everyone is busy....everyone is finding their own way. But there are not a lot of answers for me. It is as vague as Peat himself. Try this...maybe that...give it time. If I give it time I may be overweight (not healthy) again very soon. So many of you are young....and male.....and that makes it all the more easy. I am 61 yr old female....it takes a lot more for me to lose a pound. I think Peat has always been one of those skinnie minnies who doesn't gain a pound ever with that amount of milk he drinks...unbelievable. I have to be very careful not to enter my senior years with excess weight and flagged lab tests. I do not want to undo all the good I've done over these past few years when I finally got into taking care of my own health.

So you see I am on the fence and frustrated. I fundamentally believe in Peat, yet theoretically it is not working for me. If there were a way to fine tune this for my needs, but I haven't been able to find it. Lowering calories lowers temps...it's a plain as that. Lowering sugar lowers temps. How to lose weight without lowering temps?

Million dollar question.

A lot of people freak out when they gain weight. However it usually comes predominantly from muscle and bone. That said...if you are actually gaining a lot of fat, that's quite unhealthy.

My suggestions to you would be
1) Start a weight lifting program
2) Ditch refined sugar
3) Focus on fruit,milk, starches (starches are perfectly fine if you don't have symptoms)
4) Start learning how to count your caloric intake accurately, so you can lower total calories accordingly if need be. You may only need to consume 100-200 calories less per day to prevent weight gain.
 
J

j.

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frustrated said:
3) Focus on fruit,milk, starches (starches are perfectly fine if you don't have symptoms)

According to Peat, starch makes you fat more easily than simple sugars. Having more weight than you want is a symptom in this context.
 
OP
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leo

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If I ditch refined sugar how do I sweeten the coffee? What do you all put in your coffee so you can have it first thing in the a.m? I really prefer my coffee with no sugar...but I've been adding it in order to make it more a.m friendly on an empty stomach. I don't use sugar the rest of the day and rely on fruits and honey in my milk at bedtime.

I prefer to hold back on the starches for now. And I guess I could try some light arm exercises with weights. Lower back is iffy right now so I've just initiated walking.

Yes to learning to gauge calories. I confess part of my problem might be portion control. I have begun weighing my food and see I was definitely overeating. According to some website I don't remember, for my age, weight and activity level I need to consume 1175 calories a day to lose one lb per week. I find that low and know that I was previously probably consuming double or triple that number.

Another off topic question; In the interview I listened to last night, Peat talks about silica and some other ingredient in supplements and says "if you ingest these, weight gain is the least of your problems" or something to that effect. I off/on take vitamins: a, b, c, d, k, b-12, msm, coq10, tumeric, theanine. I checked them last night and they all have silica. Is the silica the capsule casing? Does anyone know why Peat says this is so dangerous? Should I stop taking....the only ones Peat approved are the vitamin a nutrisorb and the thorne k which just arrived yesterday.

thnx
 
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leo

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Another question: arghh I know I'm wearing out my welcome here lol but I'm really trying to learn!

IF protein causes a spike in insulin, then why when I was on a high protein/low carb diet, did I not get symptoms of this? I had a very flat abdomen. Now it is pudgy and gooey and last night we were thinking it could be the insulin spikes (=abdominal fat) from too much protein or protein not preceded by sugar/fruit. But on low carbing you do not have the sugar/fruit but do not have these symptoms?

I do not feel it is bloating. I doubt it's all this muscle/bone from such little time. I feel it is actual fat gain...and solely in the abdomen. I know cortisol causes abdominal fat too, but I feel the chillest I've ever felt in my life now....I KNOW what high cortisol and high estrogen feels like from past experience. In sleeping better now I feel my stress hormones are more under control. So....wondering about the protein/insulin theory.
 

BingDing

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The only difference between fruit, honey and white sugar is the micronutrients, which are irrelevant in this context. Eat as much white sugar as you want. RP has used 400g/day of sugar without problems.

x calories to lose y pounds per week is a formula for failure. Millions of people have failed to get healthy that way. Getting the thyroid/oxidative metabolism system working right should be the highest priority, everything follows from that.

Silica is akin to endotoxins if the lining of the small intestine is compromised. Particles can pass through the lining without going through the normal digestive process. Silica can lodge in different parts of the body and cause problems. From what you've written, it doesn't seem likely to be a big deal. It's just good practice to avoid silica along with all the other excipients in food and supplements as a precaution.
 
J

j.

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leo said:
If I ditch refined sugar how do I sweeten the coffee?

Favoring starches over sugar is a good way to promote obesity according to Peat.
 

sara n.

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I have been "peating" as best I can, which isn't very well due to my allergies, for over 2 years now, and have gained a total of over 30 lbs. I was a believer in the calories don't count silly idea. Having been researching this intently recently, reading Anthony Colpo and several others, I no longer can believe calories do not count. It was a nice idea, but false.
I used to be a low carber, but can no longer follow that as my allergies have worsened and the diet is so extremely narrow for me I just can't deal with it.
In addition to weight gain from eating too many calories on my modified Peat, my biggest disappointment is that aside from being able now to drink goat milk and eat well cooked peeled potatoes, overall my allergies have actually worsened. I am now more sensitive and cannot eat several things I could eat 2 + years ago. It is entirely possible that I am in constant low level allergen insult from the milk and potatoes, causing me to react to levels of allergens that were formerly not causing overt reactions. So now trying to decide if potatoes and milk are worth it.
My labs have improved. I no longer have high or borderline high liver values for example.
I am 67, total hysterectomy nearly 30 years ago.
Like you, I am frustrated, and getting increasingly so as time goes on. I was overweight already when I began to try Peat's diet ideas, and being this obese now is uncomfortable on many levels. However, an experiment with the HCG diet completely trashed me. It took me many, many long months to recover from that. So while I won't do any extreme dieting again, especially any kind of diet that results in huge release of stored estrogen and PUFA (my idea of what happened), I am beginning to take a fresh look at ratios and calories.
sara n.
 
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leo

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Sara thank you,...finally someone more similar to my situation in that you are not male, and not under 30! I get very frustrated reading other forums on the net that seem to be inhabited by only young males looking to get ripped. They even take t3 for aesthetic purposes. Not much information out there for older women.

Sorry about your allergies and having to restrict so much. I understand you must be very frustrated indeed. Fortunately I do not have allergies, nor other digestive issues. It is a blessing for my health, but it is also a hindrance as to trying to find which foods work best for me, because barring weight, they all do!

I too believe that calories in calories out does indeed matter. Even Peat in the interview I heard last night alluded to this. Of course you cannot sit around and munch on cheese all day....it will add up. Maybe these youngsters can do it....as I once could when in my 20's and 30's. I ate ice cream by the buckets and was skinny as a rail. That all changed after childbirth and now I have to watch out. Luckily I don't have a lot of weight to lose....just these last 10 lbs I gained on Peat...and I'm still in my same clothes, but it is still frustrating, because I know if I let it be and "give it more time" or "wait to heal" blah blah, I am going to be at that 30 lb mark very quickly.

I guess I want my cake and want to eat it too...but in this case, I want my fruit milk. While low carbing I never thought about it, but now that I've added it to my diet, I love it and now it seems like it will be the forbidden fruit for me,if it causes so much weight gain.

To top it all off, there is not one day that I do not open my computer screen and see newsletters condemming sugar and talking about all the health consequences of too much fructose, whether natural as in fruits, or table sugar. It makes me wonder sometimes if I have not blindly (I confess to not reading all of the studies....I just read Peat's summation of them) followed Peat, as I have blindly followed other health/diet gurus out there. I was surprised to hear last night that he worked in a diet clinic at one point....that was sort of a turn off for me....credibility wise.

I agree to not go back to the puff and high estrogenic foods. And I am with you on taking a look at ratios and calories....that is exactly what I have spent the last two days working on.

Wish you well!

ps. years ago I developed bad rhinitis from living in tropics and many places being mold infested. A naturopath put me on lemon water and a combo of histamine 1 and 1 blockers. I had never heard there were different kinds. Most otc brands are 1, and zantac which is for acid reflux is a 2. The combo did wonders...it went away....and did not come back when I revisited the moldy places. I took atarax/zantac combo for 5 days. I know healing through nutrition is best, but when all else fails......
 

jaguar43

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leo said:
What??????

Tumor???

Well that settles that. I will NOT test for prolactin now thank you very much. I am not going to go looking for a tumor now, when all I'm feeling is frustration over gaining weight.

Jeez. I appreciate your time, but really. Tumor???


Ray Peat said that pituitary tumors are very common. His ideas about dopamine and the serotonin are related to weight gain. I don't understand.....the hostility.

I don't think you know much about ray peat work. Its possible that you get tunnel vision with nutrition, but ignore other subjects.
 

jaguar43

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j. said:
Haha, jag, you should've mentioned stuff about tumors only AFTER she showed you high results, which probably wasn't even going to happen.



What do you mean..wasn't going to happen.
 

Ari

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It sounds like your main goal is to do this:

Keep temps high, while keeping weight low.

The weight gain tells me that your calories are fine. It means you are getting at least enough to stay warm if all other major points are addressed.

The first question is that of salt intake compared to fluid intake. Without becoming overheated due to, or feeling a false warmth from dehydration, adding salt and reducing fluids until warm is one of the most important things to do on this diet. For example, I add 1/2 a teaspoon of salt to 2 cups of OJ as a drink. I also sprinkle salt liberally on my foods.

If the fluids (milk, juice, even fresh fruit which is mostly water) are high, and salt is low, it doesn't matter how much one eats as far as temps are concerned: you will wash yourself out. However, if one is super healthy, they can continue eating in this electrolytically unbalanced way without affecting their temperatures. I have seen that first hand, but I don't think it's healthy. I typically drink no water at all. My temps are very high always, and sometimes I don't get to eat as much as I would like. Contrast this with my friends mother (mid 40's) who is a workout freak that eats a low amount of calories per day, avoids all sodium, and drinks jugs of water at a time. She is very cold, so much so that she blasts the heater in the car no matter the weather.

The next question is that of sunlight/red light, and activity levels. Tons of warmth is provided by sunlight and movement. If someone aims to stay completely warm through metabolic activity alone, then they will probably gain weight. Instead try for a balance of warmth from food, warmth from sunlight, and warmth from activity (something as simple as walking works).

I wouldn't put too much blame on the diet if you feel healthy (which you sound like). A great way for helping others to help you further would be to keep track of a couple days worth of food on cronometer.com and the like.

Good luck
 

Ari

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I forgot to add that carbs should be much higher than protein and fat.
 

sara n.

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leo said:
ps. years ago I developed bad rhinitis from living in tropics and many places being mold infested. A naturopath put me on lemon water and a combo of histamine 1 and 1 blockers. I had never heard there were different kinds. Most otc brands are 1, and zantac which is for acid reflux is a 2. The combo did wonders...it went away....and did not come back when I revisited the moldy places. I took atarax/zantac combo for 5 days. I know healing through nutrition is best, but when all else fails......

It can be very helpful and even necessary to take an H2 blocker like Zantac, and I do when the itching and formication get bad, but I think it is important to note that H2 blockers (and even all H1 blockers to a minor extent) reduce stomach acid. This can be really bad for someone like me with digestion and GI problems. After years of taking high dose Zantac, I developed a very nasty reflux problem. Now, when I take Zantac, I have to take Betaine HCL, or I get bad reflux again, which really complicates my need to reduce iron absorption. I also do take hydrocortisone in physiological dose daily, and also take prednisone as needed when in a bad flare. I try to avoid doing high dose pred tapers though, but have had to do many in the past, and will no doubt have to do them in the future. This also complicates my "peating" because when I push trying to incorporate allergen containing Peat foods too hard, I end up having to do higher doses of antihistamines, higher dose HC, and maybe even some pred doses or a full on pred taper. Which doesn't improve anything.
 
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leo

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Jag: You are correct. I am not immersed in Ray Peat's work. I am only beginning to learn and as far as I know, that is allowed... correct? Or should I leave now because I am not as smart as you?

Right here is why I feel Peat is such a great educator. When does he ever try to make someone feel badly about themselves because they don't get it like he does. He has humility, and that is the most attractive quality a man can have.

No hostility....maybe sarcasm. I just felt that with the symptoms I was describing, your suggestions were overreactive. Like telling a doctor you have a recent headache and him suggesting exploratory surgery of the brain.

Not really good advice for a newbie and j. called you on it.

Ari: thank you ....that is quite helpful information and something that I can use right away. I will try to be more in tune with the salt intake. Also, I know that my carb intake has not been higher than the protein, so that is something else I will adjust.

sara: I am sooo sorry for your troubles. You are definitely in tune with what works for you, and my suggestion was only meant to help. I know little of your situation, as I said, I do not often suffer from allergies, or health problems for that matter. I wish you well.
 

sara n.

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sara: I am sooo sorry for your troubles. You are definitely in tune with what works for you, and my suggestion was only meant to help. I know little of your situation, as I said, I do not often suffer from allergies, or health problems for that matter. I wish you well.

Actually I know you were just giving me information, I just wanted to point out the connection between H2 blockers and low stomach acid for people who may not know. I thank you for trying to help.
 

NooMoahk

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sara n. said:
It can be very helpful and even necessary to take an H2 blocker like Zantac, and I do when the itching and formication get bad, but I think it is important to note that H2 blockers (and even all H1 blockers to a minor extent) reduce stomach acid. This can be really bad for someone like me with digestion and GI problems. After years of taking high dose Zantac, I developed a very nasty reflux problem. Now, when I take Zantac, I have to take Betaine HCL, or I get bad reflux again, which really complicates my need to reduce iron absorption. I also do take hydrocortisone in physiological dose daily, and also take prednisone as needed when in a bad flare. I try to avoid doing high dose pred tapers though, but have had to do many in the past, and will no doubt have to do them in the future. This also complicates my "peating" because when I push trying to incorporate allergen containing Peat foods too hard, I end up having to do higher doses of antihistamines, higher dose HC, and maybe even some pred doses or a full on pred taper. Which doesn't improve anything.

I have had a history of allergies and very serious chronic sinus infections. I took prednisone tapers 3 times in my life, 2 for acute serious skin reactions and 1 for a sinus infection that was becoming dangerous. The infections and reactions got worse every time and this is the when i developed the more serious stomach irritation as well. That last serious infection I just said no more to Pred and I have never had allergies that serious ever again(also largely because I avoid gluten now). I would only take an immune system inhibiting corticosteroid if it meant life or death after my experiences. Extremely high doses of turmeric saved me from steroids after that decision.
 

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