Frustrated

Discussion in 'Diet, Recipes' started by leo, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. leo

    leo Member

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    Frustrated is an understatement.

    Is there one soul out there that continues to eat in this way and not inflate like a balloon??

    I cannot continue to gain weight like this. Fundamentally anything that causes this much weight gain cannot be healthy....I cannot accept that I have to get fat to get high temps. And what has me second guessing this is that I considered myself very healthy prior to peating. It is only now, that I get flagged labs. Only now high blood sugar. Only now that I had issues with bp. Only now that I am constipated. My only improvement to how I was prior to peaking is better sleep and better energy.

    My greater problem however, is after having read Peat and wanting to believe it is the better path, and then now having to return to a lesser path. I wanted peating to work...but I cannot go back to being overweight. I do not understand the people here who are doing so well and not gaining weight? The minute I try to space more time between meals, or try to reduce portion sizes, my temps plummet. I am so tempted to throw that damned thermometer away and never even give a flip about my temperatures! I feel I am missing out on life...trying to get this perfected. My friends are out lunching and I am at home counting macronutrients.

    Sorry to rant. I really had high hopes. I love sleeping better. I love eating fruit again as well as milk. There are things about this I truly appreciate more than my other way of eating. But for all the hype about how unhealthy low carbing is, no one can deny it is the best tool to lose weight. I lost over 35 lbs and have kept it off effortlessly for over 4 years. Only now have I begun to gain....had I stayed at it I believe I would have been a success story and not a yo -yoer.

    I also feel lost of this forum. I'm not complaining....only frustrated at not having what I need when I need it.....I like to have a plan always. I know everyone is busy....everyone is finding their own way. But there are not a lot of answers for me. It is as vague as Peat himself. Try this...maybe that...give it time. If I give it time I may be overweight (not healthy) again very soon. So many of you are young....and male.....and that makes it all the more easy. I am 61 yr old female....it takes a lot more for me to lose a pound. I think Peat has always been one of those skinnie minnies who doesn't gain a pound ever with that amount of milk he drinks...unbelievable. I have to be very careful not to enter my senior years with excess weight and flagged lab tests. I do not want to undo all the good I've done over these past few years when I finally got into taking care of my own health.

    So you see I am on the fence and frustrated. I fundamentally believe in Peat, yet theoretically it is not working for me. If there were a way to fine tune this for my needs, but I haven't been able to find it. Lowering calories lowers temps...it's a plain as that. Lowering sugar lowers temps. How to lose weight without lowering temps?

    Million dollar question.
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    I think I am gaining weight due to estrogen rising. And probably a little too much ice cream. lol When the hormones are fixed and regulated I think the weight fixes itself.
     
  3. Rolan

    Rolan Member

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    Leo, I have to ask - if you were very healthy BEFORE Peating, then why did you change in the first place?

    And FWIW, I have been Peating for 4-5 months now. I haven't gained weight at all, but I am 34 yrs younger. My point being that everyone is different because while we're all human we all come from different metabolic derangements and backgrounds and hereditary and ages and the list goes on.

    Not to mention, there is NO such thing as a perfect diet, and these are simply guidelines. i hoenstly don't think RP intended for people to read his work and spend the rest of their lives drinking Milk, OJ, Coke and eating cheese and Ice Cream, at least not exclusively. I'm having some issues myself, although only cosmetic ones at the moment - like poor skin. Other things have improved massively though. Stomach feels content 24/7, body feels relaxed and my energy is good etc, so it's a matter of tweaking within your parameters.

    People here can only give advice, not fix anything for you. They're all still learning just as you are and don't have all the answers.
     
  4. Rolan

    Rolan Member

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    Yeah, low carb is great for weight loss. It's also a wonderful way to permanently damage your digestive system and gut flora.

    :woo
     
  5. j.

    j. Guest

    How long have you been avoiding significant sources of PUFAs? Did you eat a lot of vegetable oils or chicken or pork before starting Peat?
     
  6. jyb

    jyb Member

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    A lot of milk yes...but not necessarily full fat milk if you're gaining weight.
     
  7. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    Rolan: Thanks for responding. I used to exchange emails with Peat years ago re thyroid issues, especially my daughters. During this time I began to read his articles sporadically which eventually led me to this and another forum In reading the member's posts, I was intrigued that some were saying that milk/sugar/honey combo at night was like a sleeping pill. At that time, that was my ONLY issue in life. So I tried it and it worked. As I read more here I began experimenting with the entire plan and noticed my temps did rise, so I thought man, these people are on to something and I jumped in. Then the problems started for me. I am not dishing it...I am not looking for perfection....I am just looking to not gain weight. It may sound vain to some, but it is an important and emotional issue for me. I also do not want flagged labs when I had perfect labs before. So my issue is trying to find how to remedy these things before just giving up and going back to the way I was before. I do realize most people here are still trying to find their way....but then therein lies my frustration.....I'm not finding many success stories.

    Digestion: Since I have (had) great digestion, I did not suffer from low carbing in that sense. And I don't feel low carbing can "permanently" destroy gut flora otherwise a lot of people here would not even be trying with Peat if they were "permanently damaged". But I do instinctively feel eating fruit is healthy so that was my only issue with low carbing.

    J. No I did not at all. I have been using coconut oil for over 25 yrs (I live in tropics) and I do not eat pork. I USED to eat a lot of chicken when younger but gave that up as well years ago as I got a little disgusted with the antibiotic/hormone issues in poultry and no access to organic here. I eat mostly seafood/lowfat fish, imported lamb and beef. What I did do was eat a lot of nuts....mostly macadamia and walnuts.
    And of course leafy greens. So those were my main pufa's.


    I appreciate the responders.....I apologize if I sound whiney. I realize some people see weight issues as only aesthetics, but I have a deep rooted and emotional aversion to being overweight. If people say "well health is more important" I would fully agree, but like I said, I felt fine before and had great labs and was on no medications for anything serious...just a bit of Cytomel.
     
  8. j.

    j. Guest

    Do you consume low-fat milk? I think typically Peaters avoid starches and full-fat dairy when trying to lose weight.

    Finding what works for a person might take a while in some cases. Also, maybe cynoplus is better than cynomel?
     
  9. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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  10. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    j. Thank you for responding.

    I consume 1% organic valley milk.(no raw milk here) I dumped the Hagaan Daz after the first week or so. I've only had overly boiled potatoes twice since I started. My fruits are super ripe local tropical ones. No starches. I feel I really made a concerted effort to do this right. I was not one of those who "slips" in a pizza or bread or anything. The only area where I was not 100% was due to those foods not being available to me...such as fresh sweet oranges for juicing. The only thing I was hesitant to do was add the hormones....pregnenolone and progest e, due to past bad experiences. I am on CyTOmel.

    I rode it out through the high bp which really scared me. I am willing to wait and see if blood sugars stabilize. I am willing to deal with the on again off again constipation. And I gave it 10lbs worth. I am NOT willing to go above the 10 lb limit I put on myself. It just is what it is.

    I think my problem is in order to reach and sustain high temps, I have to practically have a baby bottle with sugared milk in my mouth all day. LOL I have to eat approx every 2 hrs and it is just too many damned calories! I know they've debunked the calories/in calories/out theories but I can't completely dismiss that is a sh**load of food in order to maintain temps. I've stretched out my eating to 3-4 hrs and my temps go back down in the 97's. If I eat non stop I can maintain them at 98.8-98.9 . Also I've tried portion control, say like eating half of what I normally do every few hrs. and temps go down as well.

    Sooo do I want high temps and to blubber up, or go back to being slim and forget about the temps, like everyone I know does, and don't seem to suffer the wear. My husband says I should go back to low carbing and just try the milk/honey before bed, since that was my only issue. Maybe I will....I'm just reluctant to make that move. I'm still waiting for someone to fall out of the sky with some answers.
     
  11. j.

    j. Guest

    Maybe trying 0% milk would help? Also, cytomel I think is just T3. Is there any reason to not take something with both T3 and T4 as most people here do?
     
  12. loess

    loess Member

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    leo, have you listened to the KMUD interview with Ray Peat on weight gain? There is a lot of useful information in there, especially in the first 30 minutes. You might also want to take a look at this discussion on peatarian.com.

    Are you doing any exercise? If not, you might try doing a bit of light strength resistance training each day (a few squats, some movements with small 5 or 10 lb dumbbells). Building and maintaining lean muscle in a safe way is a key part of the pathway toward repairing the metabolism, and given the proper context, will encourage the body to burn fat when it is at rest.
     
  13. loess

    loess Member

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    Frequent meals and being certain to eat enough sugar + protein while minimizing fat intake generally has a profound effect on body composition, but you have to get things dialed in. Losing weight via calorie restriction "works", but in the process you are releasing PUFA and ramping up production of stress hormones and ultimately shooting yourself in the foot. Like Rolan said there are so many variables to consider since everyone is coming from a unique set of circumstances...I understand how frustrating it can be to try and dial everything in while dealing with the emotional challenges of weight gain!
     
  14. NooMoahk

    NooMoahk Member

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    How long have you been eating like this? I have always been skinny(low carbing turns me into a skeleton) and yet I was FINALLY able to gain weight by eating peaty. After a couple weeks I gained 15 pounds! Never experienced anything like it, but then I lost it all in the span of 2-3 months or so. And during that time I was still increasing calories! I have never had blood work so for all I know labs might look bad. I think I ate a half gallon of ice cream one night last week, which is unfortunate because I am below the federal poverty limit.

    Think about cholesterol. The medical establishment would have you believe that higher cholesterol indicates you are doing something wrong. It may actually indicate the true state of damage your body must repair. I imagine you have more repairing to do than my 20 year old body, but who knows. If your hormones don't take a dive low carbing(my hands are like ice without sugar) then by all means enjoy. I loved eating fatty nuts, avocado, salads, more eggs, etc. but I was always cold and constipated. It's hormones, so I'd focus on doing WHATEVER improves hormonal levels/symptoms. I wish i could share info on my labs but I've never had any done and my blood pressure is affected by my life situations, caffeine consumption, sodium/potassium/magnesium, exercise, and number of hours I sleep rather than any calories or macronutrients.

    I consider my initial weight gain to be a result of past carbohydrate restriction. Before restricting carbs that never ever happened to me. As far as blood glucose, that's probably a result of low carbing as well. I bought a glucose meter at the start of my peat adventures and holy ***t did it scare me. Gradually though, after perhaps those 2-3 months, I could eat a potato or two without feeling the effects of high blood sugar. I haven't tested in many months since because I can feel it without the meter anyway. Predictably, starch raised my blood sugar WAY higher than eating twice the amount of sucrose or honey.

    As far as constipation goes, have you done the daily raw carrot(maybe 2)? It's tricky because your colon is likely to freak out with any major changes in bacteria. So no matter what foods you are eating, it just depends on what microbes you already have in my humble opinion and experience. Hopefully something I've said helps. I can totally understand the desire to avoid weight gain though, it's your life so live it however makes you happiest. Happiness always improves my health :)
     
  15. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    If you're willing to accept low temps, stick with Peat but eat less. If you can get 60g of protein from gelatin that gives you lots of leeway with other food, especially with 1% milk. Small 1/2 tsp sips of coconut oil through the day might keep temps up without adding too many calories.

    Is there any way to travel to a market, say once every two weeks, to get better food? Load up the car with coolers and ice packs and make a day of it?
     
  16. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    Wow thanks to everyone for the replies and suggestions.

    Mittir: I got a reply from you with no content lol. Can you resend?

    J. No organic 0% where I live. Do you think non organic 0% would be healthier than 1% organic? I think I would have a problem drinking non organic milk, knowing what is in there.

    Loess: I have not heard the interview but will listen right now after I finish posting. Thank you for that. As for exercise I began walking approx 40 minutes daily, not strolling, but not briskly enough to have to mouth breathe. I had not done anything prior to that but I was keen to offset the high caloric consumption with peating. I am eating very frequently...every 2-3 hrs and I always combine protein with fruit.

    NooMoahK: thank you for your suggestions. Wow you gained 15 lbs rather quickly....I am at 10 lb gain, but have put on the emergency brakes this week. Who is to say I would not go up 20-30 lbs? I cannot risk it. Yes, I eat the daily carrot...maybe missed it once or twice in the 6 weeks I've been peating.

    BingDing: thank you. I spent the better part of yesterday compiling a "sample menu" cutting calories but keeping everything peat. Suprisingly enough I got to 85 g of protein (I do a LOT of gelatin) and had fruit and milk but at a much lower consumption. My concern here is that I've read that sugar to protein has to be high....so I may not be getting the ratio I need to lose weight. On low carbing I used to eat high protein/mod fat/low carb. Now it's high protein/mod carb/low fat. We'll see what happens. I weighed in this a.m. and the scale went down a notch...not a lb...but one little line (I have a medical balance scale) so at least it didn't go up. Last night with half a glass of milk/gelatine I still slept like a rock...so apparently I do not need the entire 8oz glass. I will take these baby steps and see if I can halt the weight gain and not suffer to much in the process.

    Thanks to everyone...I really appreciate it. Am off to listen to the interview.
     
  17. Atalanta

    Atalanta Member

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    Leo,
    I am going to disagree with everyone here.

    I don't think you should continue to follow Peat if you are experiencing high blood pressure and other health problems. If it isn't working for you, it is not your fault or even Ray Peat's fault. It just isn't for you. There are lots of healthy, robust people who don't drink milk or drink only small amounts of milk, eat grains and sweet potatoes, and eat whatever else they want (not that I am suggesting you eat these things if you don't like them).

    Maybe your body simply cannot handle (or does not need) a lot of calcium, salt or liquids. Although 61 is not old :), you are not as young as many of the people here. Most of the people who are doing well are male and young, as you pointed out. I think we need to accept that there are important differences between males and females, especially younger males and older females. You may suffer more damage to your health from continuing than a young male, even if said male is not doing well following Peat. They are more resilient, in general.

    You are right to not want to enter your later years with high blood pressure and other issues. I would never recommend that my mother follow Peat because there are too many problems that can arise while trying to customize a Peat eating plan. I don't think older women should experiment with their health and take chances the way younger ones do. My mother is fine, eats what she wants and does not take thyroid hormone. Her doctor tells her that she is healthier than most of his younger patients. Is it possible that my mother can become even healthier by changing her diet? Maybe yes because no one has perfect health. But I believe the pursuit of perfect health can be very dangerous and sometimes it is better to just leave well enough alone and enjoy life. Our days are numbered no matter how perfect out diet and health.

    Why not consider a medium carb diet? Just reform your old low carb diet to include a little more fruit, well cooked vegetables, low PUFA, and maybe a couple glasses of milk, if you like milk, or cheese. And use the sugary drink at bedtime only. If I had to live on skim milk in order to stay slim, I would never drink milk and choose being overweight. Food needs to be tasty to the person eating it. At your age, you will probably always experience weight gain following Peat.
     
  18. cbar09

    cbar09 Member

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    Can you post a typical day's worth of food and supplements?

    It took me about a year and a half switching from low carb paleo to peat-inspired eating before I could confidently say I've fixed most of my issues and gotten back down to my pre-peat weight/bodyfat %. I was feeling better and seeing improvements during this time but the weight came on all the same. I was never really good about keeping consistent temps until I really dialed down the exercise and focused on nose-breathing.

    I think cutting protein and fat in favor of carbs is the easiest way to move things in the right direction, weight-wise. Going from Low to high carb it's very easy to over-consume protein and fat especially if you don't change your meals much and just add in fruit/sugar. Your body's metabolism is probably already pretty messed up from low carb/excess pufa, so you're likely to gain weight if you can't use all those extra cals. My caloric intake was much much lower doing paleo (like 60%) than it is now. Ramping up the calories gradually and focusing on nutrient dense, low fat foods will probably help with the weight gain.

    Unfortunately peat eating/supplementing/living is a long process, and you need to re-adapt your body to use carbs effectively. Aspirin, Niacinamide, sugar, salt, red light, and thryoid are going to help in that vein. I've found high doses of aspirin (600mg 3-4 times daily and additional vit k) can keep me pretty warm even if my diet/stress isn't 100%. I'd say change things slowly, and reduce fat/protein substantially if you're upping carbs. My macros are close to 70/15/15 carb/pro/fat right now.
     
  19. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    Thank you Atalanta and cbar09

    Atalanta: wow...you have been listening inside my head. lol I have told myself all of those things. A few weeks ago with the high blood pressure thing, I had convinced myself that this was not for me and I went back to low carbing for a few days. I quickly shed some weight (probably water) and bp began to come down. Didn't really enjoy my food again...kept thinking of all the pufa in my greens. At that time I visited a cardiologist who surprisingly enough encouraged me to continue Peat saying something to the effect of "changing neurotransmitters" when switching diets from no sugar to high sugar. (he thought that might be cause of bp and would settle on its own...to keep watch) Bottom line...I didn't understand him nor delve more because in my mind I was already thinking how nice it was not to have to quit the peat diet. I do love my fruit and milk. So I have since been monitoring bp and it varies, but never gets as high as it was that one week where I was in "stroke" panic over it. I agree with you that the pursuit of health can sometimes be more detrimental than the health we actually have. This is why I monitor myself so much with labs etc...so as not to go overboard. I must say that my desire to continue with peat is due to the deep and restful sleep I am now enjoying. When I was low carbing, I did not have good sleep patterns and that in itself is unhealthy, so while I say I was healthy doing low carb, what I mean is that I did not feel horrible nor did I have bad lab results. I tried this woe thinking I would just improve my bad thing, not at all did I think I would add new bad things to the list. I have considered combining the two styles of eating but then I think that is what got me overweight to begin with years ago. I do better with a restrictive diet and I adjust pretty well...I am a good student and can be very disciplined about the way I eat...if I find ways to enjoy the foods. And I usually do. Thank you again for your frank opinion...it comforts me to know that this is not a fundamentalist view forum and that opposite opinions are welcome.

    cbar09: I will get around to getting it all down on paper soon. Problem is at the beginning I was switching things around a lot due to the new issues I was getting. So nothing has really been set yet for me. I do not feel I over consume fat...I am very aware of it. And I thought we were supposed to aim for high protein? I have been having approx 8 tbsp of gelatine a day to meet this need. Do you think that is the problem? How much should I cut back to?

    If you put on weight at the beginning and you are a young male, then I must have been a fool to think I could do this with no weight gain! After 60, you will see that you just LOOK at food and gain lol.

    I have a lot of thinking to do.
     
  20. OP
    leo

    leo Member

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    loess: do you happen to have a link to that interview? I got on the wrong one.

    Also peatarian.com is shut down? Cannot access that site today.

    thnx
     
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