UK Health Advice Now In Complete Chaos (but Now Going Full Circle And Slowly Rays Way!)

[cantstoppeating]

Fat can make you fat. Carbs can make you fat. An excess of either one can make you fat.

Glycogen storage capacity and de novo lipogenesis during massive carbohydrate overfeeding in man.


If the carbs are all from glucose, it's virtually impossible to gain weight assuming proper insulin sensitivity. Fructose isn't converted to glycogen well by the muscles, so assuming 100g glycogen capacity of the liver, and depleted glycogen in the morning, you can eat over 50 teaspoons of sugar per day without gaining any fat. This also assumes that the muscles store all the glucose from ingested sugar, while the liver stores all the fructose.

I've read that same study. Are you telling me that excess carbohydrates don't make you fat? I bolded the key line of my post that you might have missed.

 

[lvysaur]

No, I'm just stating that "excess" is pretty hard to hit.

 

[Peater Piper]

Excess becomes a lot easier to achieve as you start adding fat. The more carbs you're eating, the less fat that's needed before you reach a tipping point, and a very low fat diet probably isn't appealing to the average person.

Also, regarding ketosis, I've found it doesn't take very much sugar/starch at all for me to stay out of ketosis, 50-100 grams a day. I've been messing around with more fat (saturated) and fewer carbs, and I haven't noticed any cortisol symptoms. Temp is the same as when I was high carb, but I feel warmer and actually less stressed. Now, that likely means my carb metabolism was not working right when they were my primary source of energy, but I still question if saturated fat oxidation can't be healthy so long as adrenaline and cortisol are minimized, which I think they can be.

 

[Spokey]

This article is just another example on how to monopolize science and medecine using controlled opposition groups.

Englishmen have made it an art.

As an Englishman I'm horrified that I don't have knowledge of what is clearly birthright. :)

Do you have any good books or docs on this subject to recommend?

 

[burtlancast]

About medical and financial monopoles, there's no better than G Edward Griffin's " World without cancer" and "The Creature from Jekyll Island".

And pretty much everything he ever wrote.
:)

 

[jyb]

Excess becomes a lot easier to achieve as you start adding fat.

I rarely go below 200g sat fat per day. If I'm not completely sedentary, I go well beyond 300g. Excessive? Weight is constant, been a few years now. But then I didn't gain much when I was high carb low fat, so I'm not a good example when it comes to weight issues. It would be excessive if I wasn't using it obviously, but since I am...

but I still question if saturated fat oxidation can't be healthy so long as adrenaline and cortisol are minimized, which I think they can be

That is one key assumption that is rarely questioned on here. It was also mine when a few years ago, after some failed paleo diets. But then you have to wonder...why would stress hormones rise if your cells succeed in deriving energy they need from what you eat? It should be pretty clear from symptoms whether your fat metabolism is working or not. However, in diabetes and old age, it is often the fat metabolism that breaks first and from my perspective is harder to heal than glucose metabolism due to the composition of conventional diets.

 

[Spokey]

About medical and financial monopoles, there's no better than G Edward Griffin's " World without cancer" and "The Creature from Jekyll Island".

And pretty much everything he ever wrote.
:)

Excellent. I'll be monopolizing medicine in no time, thanks.

 

[EIRE24]

I rarely go below 200g sat fat per day. If I'm not completely sedentary, I go well beyond 300g. Excessive? Weight is constant, been a few years now. But then I didn't gain much when I was high carb low fat, so I'm not a good example when it comes to weight issues. It would be excessive if I wasn't using it obviously, but since I am...



That is one key assumption that is rarely questioned on here. It was also mine when a few years ago, after some failed paleo diets. But then you have to wonder...why would stress hormones rise if your cells succeed in deriving energy they need from what you eat? It should be pretty clear from symptoms whether your fat metabolism is working or not. However, in diabetes and old age, it is often the fat metabolism that breaks first and from my perspective is harder to heal than glucose metabolism due to the composition of conventional diets.

Wow, 200 grams of fat a day? Do you also eat a lot of carbs or is your diet mostly centred around fat?

 

[Peater Piper]

I rarely go below 200g sat fat per day. If I'm not completely sedentary, I go well beyond 300g. Excessive? Weight is constant, been a few years now. But then I didn't gain much when I was high carb low fat, so I'm not a good example when it comes to weight issues. It would be excessive if I wasn't using it obviously, but since I am...

I'm definitely not saying one can't have quite a bit of both carbs and fat in the diet, especially with a healthy metabolism, just that it may be hard to eat carbohydrates to the point of weight gain if dietary fat is kept very low, but that can change quickly with just moderate dietary fat consumption. Dietary fat kills my insulin sensitivity, so I kind of need to focus on one or the other, and honestly I think I do better with more fat.

That is one key assumption that is rarely questioned on here. It was also mine when a few years ago, after some failed paleo diets. But then you have to wonder...why would stress hormones rise if your cells succeed in deriving energy they need from what you eat? It should be pretty clear from symptoms whether your fat metabolism is working or not. However, in diabetes and old age, it is often the fat metabolism that breaks first and from my perspective is harder to heal than glucose metabolism due to the composition of conventional diets.

How would you focus on healing broken fat metabolism?

 

[Such_Saturation]

in diabetes and old age, it is often the fat metabolism that breaks

 

[Stryker]

I've read that same study. Are you telling me that excess carbohydrates don't make you fat? I bolded the key line of my post that you might have missed.

i think once you go over the glycogen capacity of your muscles and your liver only 20% of carbs ingested over that threshold end up as fatty acids

No, I'm just stating that "excess" is pretty hard to hit.

damn hard..

 

[Peater Piper]

There's evidence pointing to fat metabolism breaking down, leading to insulin resistance, leading to diabetes. It seems to be a different perspective than Peat, whose focus is the deterioration of glucose metabolism, but perhaps the two ideas aren't contradictory for someone wise enough to consolidate the information.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/56/8/2046
Fatty Acid Oxidation and Insulin Action | Diabetes

 

[Such_Saturation]

There's evidence pointing to fat metabolism breaking down, leading to insulin resistance, leading to diabetes. It seems to be a different perspective than Peat, whose focus is the deterioration of glucose metabolism, but perhaps the two ideas aren't contradictory for someone wise enough to consolidate the information.

Impaired Fat Oxidation After a Single High-Fat Meal in Insulin-Sensitive Nondiabetic Individuals With a Family History of Type 2 Diabetes | Diabetes
Fatty Acid Oxidation and Insulin Action | Diabetes