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"When A Turk's Bowels Move Less Than Three Times A Day, He Consults A Physician."

Runenight201

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It's hard to deny the impact our gut has on our health, and the importance of eating food that produces a happy, healthy gut, with beneficial bacteria, vs eating food that produces a negative effect.

Healthy Western individuals have been reported to obtain 2.8 kcal/g of fiber via microbial fermentation (Behall & Howe 1996), yielding up to 10% of a person’s daily calories (McNeil 1984).

So it seems like fiber isn't just mass for our bowel movements, but that we can actually obtain energy for it through our bacteria fermenting it. Most primates obtain a substantial amount of their energy this way I believe.

"However, it should be noted that the gut microbiota regulate food intake to meet their carbohydrate requirement, and a diet deficient in fiber leads to overeating as well".


I've noticed that while consuming very low fiberous foods, it's very hard to meet satiety, even though my stomach was physically full. I can rationally explain this with two mechanisms either:

1)the food I consumed wasn't nutritionally complete enough (which occurs if I were to just eat white rice for instance)
2)my gut bacteria were still hungry for their fermentable carbohydrates, triggering hunger signals and leading me to overeat. I think this could be useful for people who struggle with weight while Peating, as I certainly have.

The PUFA discussing is interesting, especially the antimicrobial effects. PUFA's are impossible to avoid unless one eats a diet of simple sugars, so it may be best to eat a diet that tends towards a better ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. While supplementing probably doesn't make sense, avoiding foods with gross ratios and the inclusion of seafood which tends to have more omega 3's could be a rational conclusion. Heme iron can certainly be avoided eating this way, and oysters provide plenty of zinc.

They certainly seem to have a heavy plant based bias, but I have noticed personally that ruminant and avian meat causes bloat, inflammation, and weight gain. Perhaps my body struggles to deal with the ammonia produced, and supporting mechanisms (would fiber help with this? Are fiber and fermentable carbohydrates synonymous?) that clear ammonia allow for tolerable digestion of animal flesh.

I agree with the simple sugars and small intestinal overgrowth, as I just made the connection for my body yesterday. Consuming orange juice on its own led to an inflammatory reaction. The bacteria were probably multiplying like crazy in my small intestine, creating endotoxemia and systemic inflammation. I don't get quite the same reaction when consuming fruit juice with starches (at least I think...but maybe its present and just attenuated).

I think I may try upping my fiber intake and drastically reduce fruit juice consumption. Perhaps some experimentation with whole grains are in order??? Legumes positively impact my stools, but I'm not sure if I'm quite ready for whole grain wheat and rice o_O
 

Amazoniac

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I have the impression that the less sedentary you are, the more you can tolerate roughage in the diet. For someone who doesn't exercise at all or is constipated, I suspect that leaning towards the opposite is preferable (or at least paying attention to it).

I don't know if pulverizing such fibers could have an effect, it's worth investigating. As an example, it should much more taxing to move pieces than a fine powder:

upload_2019-4-16_8-37-13.png
upload_2019-4-16_8-37-18.png

This is an exaggeration, but it's more subtle in practice. You could have pieces of raw beetroots, carrots, parsnips, brans, coconuts, tough leaves and herbs (because dried products often include unwanted pieces), aspargus, celeries, cucumbers, and so on; ending up with plenty of roughage that can be impacting or interfere with nutrient absorption.
 

klein164

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Jul 15, 2019
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Does anyone know the difference between mineral oil and paraffin? They seem to be used somewhat interchangeably in the studies I've read.
 
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Extremely useful information, @Amazoniac! Thank you kindly for taking the time and effort to comb through the info in the original post. Shed a lot of light on the putrefaction quandary for me.
 

Vileplume

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Just read this thread and loved it! It got me thinking about bowel movement frequency and stool consistency. I just posted about this in the milk forum, but curious what you all think. What would be preferable between constipation and diarrhea? Since Kellogg goes into depth about the dangers of stasis in the digestive tract, and he says that 3x (or more) bowel movements a day is ideal, what if I have 5-6 bowel movements a day, which are all diarrhea? Food is passing through my digestive tract quicker, at least, so would this be viewed as an improvement over constipation, perhaps eventually settling into multi-day normal BMs?
 

TheSir

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Jan 6, 2019
Messages
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Extremely useful information, @Amazoniac! Thank you kindly for taking the time and effort to comb through the info in the original post. Shed a lot of light on the putrefaction quandary for me.
I don't remember in which thread our previous discussion resides, so I'll reply to you here since it's more on-topic here.

So I decided not to challenge my lactose intolerance with the lactose milch diet. Instead I modified it a bit: due to raw starch being almost equal to lactose in slowness of digestion, I chose to combine lactose-free milk with potato starch. I'm going to take 10 grams of potato starch with 2 dl of milk every 30 mins. This should, with the help of the amylolytic colon bacteria, result in production of sugar in amounts that are sufficient for changing the gut bacteria.

There are two potential pitfalls to this strategy that I foresee:

1) The starch is going to unfavourably interact with the milk, or lead to constipation, ruining the purpose of the regimen.

2) The pre-digested lactose in the milk is going to feed the harmful bacteria in the small intestines to a point where I have to stop the experiment.

I will give you an update later.
 

SonOfEurope

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Jul 10, 2016
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573
What about rice with bell of the peppers? They tend to be safe

I Luuuuvvv rice with the bell of the peppers, when it comes to the potato, would you suggest not cooking in through entirety or adding something else to have that but of fiber in there?
 

Inaut

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Nov 29, 2017
Messages
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I don't remember in which thread our previous discussion resides, so I'll reply to you here since it's more on-topic here.

So I decided not to challenge my lactose intolerance with the lactose milch diet. Instead I modified it a bit: due to raw starch being almost equal to lactose in slowness of digestion, I chose to combine lactose-free milk with potato starch. I'm going to take 10 grams of potato starch with 2 dl of milk every 30 mins. This should, with the help of the amylolytic colon bacteria, result in production of sugar in amounts that are sufficient for changing the gut bacteria.

There are two potential pitfalls to this strategy that I foresee:

1) The starch is going to unfavourably interact with the milk, or lead to constipation, ruining the purpose of the regimen.

2) The pre-digested lactose in the milk is going to feed the harmful bacteria in the small intestines to a point where I have to stop the experiment.

I will give you an update later.

I’m doing something similar with potato starch 3 times a day. I’m actually liking the effects so far. I don’t have desire to take many supplements now (very strange for me).
 

Hgreen56

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Apr 8, 2020
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So after reading this topic I am confused

So this book is telling that people need fruit, vegetables, RAW milk and some wheat fiber that contains fiber and cellulose for increasing bowel movement.

Than halfway this topic people come to conclusion that god hate us and that all these fiber sources are more harmful than beneficial for our health.
fiber are good food for bacteria, and bacterial endotoxin is usually the basic problem causing hormone imbalance, by being a chronic burden for the liver

But luckily mother earth makes one healthy fiber source for humans and we called them bamboo shoots.
Have anticancer, antibacterial, and antiviral activity. Has beneficial effects on lipid profile and bowel function.

So after reading this whole topic, the final conclusion is:

People are constipated when poop then less 3 times a day
To increase bowel movement you need to eat more fiber and the only healthy fiber source is bamboo shoots
Don't forget avoid starch and muscle meat because all this lowers bowel movements
and you can only drink RAW milk because
its not been sterilized by boiling.
Pasteurized milk is likely to develop within a short time more bacteria and bacteria of a more dangerous type than are found in ordinary raw milk.

And when someone not want to avoid starch then you need to consume some sugar with the starch?
"Carrots may be advantageously used in a regimen that has for its purpose the changing of intestinal flora. Bertrand found that when rabbits were fed on potatoes, the urine contained indican, while the urine was free from indican when the animals were fed on carrots. The colon bacilli were more numerous in the colons of potato-fed rabbits. Bertrand thought that the greater amount of putrefaction in the potato-fed rabbits was due to the fact that there was less acid fermentation because less sugar was present. I was also noted that starch-digesting bacteria were present in smaller quantities in the stools of potato-fed rabbits.
This experiment shows the value of raw starch as found in green vegetables in reforming the intestinal flora."

Am I correct?
 
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Jennifer

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So after reading this topic I am confused

So this book is telling that people need fruit, vegetables, RAW milk and some wheat fiber that contains fiber and cellulose for increasing bowel movement.

Than halfway this topic people come to conclusion that god hate us and that all these fiber sources are more harmful than beneficial for our health.


But luckily mother earth makes one healthy fiber source for humans and we called them bamboo shoots.


So after reading this whole topic, the final conclusion is:

People are constipated when poop then less 3 times a day
You’re funny, Hgreen56! :) Amazoniac can probably answer these better but I’ll take a stab at it...

If a person consumes 3 or more meals a day or has incomplete evacuation, maybe? If a person consumes less than 3 meals a day and has complete evacuation, less than 3 times a day may be normal?
“Hgreen56” said:
To increase bowel movement you need to eat more fiber and the only healthy fiber source is bamboo shoots
Not necessarily. Some find thyroid, magnesium, coffee, and cascara help with transit. Just optimizing thyroid and adrenal function and switching from cow’s milk to goat’s milk (even pasteurized) has me going 3x a day without fiber in my diet.
“Hgreen56” said:
Don't forget avoid starch and muscle meat because all this lowers bowel movements
I think it’s dependent on many things such as a person’s thyroid and adrenal function, and enzyme and stomach acid production. Starch can be binding but it’s not a given that it will lessen bowel movements, and there may be less volume with meat but not necessarily less bowel movements. I know of people who eat a carnivore diet and go multiple times a day, and others on the same diet who only go every few days or longer. Personally, I never felt good eliminating that infrequently, but some say they do so it seems to depend on the person.
“Hgreen56” said:
and you can only drink RAW milk because
The best milk is going to be the one you tolerate best, IMO. Some do best on raw while others do best on pasteurized and even ultra-pasteurized. When I had SIBO, ultra-pasteurized or as Ray called it “sterile” milk was the only milk that didn’t exasperate the overgrowth. Raw had my face rashing out so bad I looked like a burn victim. For me, the only difference between raw and pasteurized goat’s milk has been with flavor. I’ve noticed that heated and older (7+ days in the fridge) goat’s milk can develop a musky flavor that the same milk raw and fresh doesn’t have, at least the one I get. Fiber and starch are my endotoxin triggers.
 
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M

metabolizm

Guest
So after reading this topic I am confused

So this book is telling that people need fruit, vegetables, RAW milk and some wheat fiber that contains fiber and cellulose for increasing bowel movement.

Than halfway this topic people come to conclusion that god hate us and that all these fiber sources are more harmful than beneficial for our health.


But luckily mother earth makes one healthy fiber source for humans and we called them bamboo shoots.


So after reading this whole topic, the final conclusion is:

People are constipated when poop then less 3 times a day
To increase bowel movement you need to eat more fiber and the only healthy fiber source is bamboo shoots
Don't forget avoid starch and muscle meat because all this lowers bowel movements
and you can only drink RAW milk because


And when someone not want to avoid starch then you need to consume some sugar with the starch?


Am I correct?

Fibre is not necessary for proper elimination. Not even raw carrot or bamboo shoots.
 

Vileplume

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You’re funny, Hgreen56! :) Amazoniac can probably answer these better but I’ll take a stab at it...

If a person consumes 3 or more meals a day or has incomplete evacuation, maybe? If a person consumes less than 3 meals a day and has complete evacuation, less than 3 times a day may be normal?
Not necessarily. Some find thyroid, magnesium, coffee, and cascara help with transit. Just optimizing thyroid and adrenal function and switching from cow’s milk to goat’s milk (even pasteurized) has me going 3x a day without fiber in my diet.

I think it’s dependent on many things such as a person’s thyroid and adrenal function, and enzyme and stomach acid production. Starch can be binding but it’s not a given that it will lessen bowel movements, and there may be less volume with meat but not necessarily less bowel movements. I know of people who eat a carnivore diet and go multiple times a day, and others on the same diet who only go every few days or longer. Personally, I never felt good eliminating that infrequently, but some say they do so it seems to depend on the person.

The best milk is going to be the one you tolerate best, IMO. Some do best on raw while others do best on pasteurized and even ultra-pasteurized. When I had SIBO, ultra-pasteurized or as Ray called it “sterile” milk was the only milk that didn’t exasperate the overgrowth. Raw had my face rashing out so bad I looked like a burn victim. For me, the only difference between raw and pasteurized goat’s milk has been with flavor. I’ve noticed that heated and older (7+ days in the fridge) goat’s milk can develop a musky flavor that the same milk raw and fresh doesn’t have, at least the one I get. Fiber and starch are my endotoxin triggers.

Hi Jennifer, I remember reading a past thread of yours where you mentioned eating a lot of fruit. Sounded delicious. When you say fiber triggers endotoxin, does this mean you are eating less whole fruit nowadays?
 

Jennifer

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Hi @Vileplume! Yes, I’m eating hardly any whole fruit these days. I juice all my fruit daily (at least 2 liters worth) so the only fiber I’m getting is the small amount of soluble fiber left over after I’ve strained the juice through a fine mesh, nut milk bag. I used to do a second straining through a coffee filter, but I can handle the fiber now without SIBO symptoms returning — rash, brain fog etc.
 
M

metabolizm

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I can't even remember the last time I sh-t three times in a single day .......... if ever.

Me too. But I think two times a day is fine. 99% of the time I only go once a day, but on the rare occasional I move my bowels twice I feel GREAT. Three times must be heaven.
 

ilhanxx

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Feb 26, 2019
Messages
270
I'm turk and got 2 or 3 times. But I've never heard to doctors visit. I would prefer one but full movement. I dont take breakfast, no pufa, no dairy, no gluten, moderate meat, moderate vegetable, no fiber, no starch, full coffee salt sugar sweet. When I take breakfast, morning movement cancel.
 

Vileplume

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Hi @Vileplume! Yes, I’m eating hardly any whole fruit these days. I juice all my fruit daily (at least 2 liters worth) so the only fiber I’m getting is the small amount of soluble fiber left over after I’ve strained the juice through a fine mesh, nut milk bag. I used to do a second straining through a coffee filter, but I can handle the fiber now without SIBO symptoms returning — rash, brain fog etc.

Thank you! I suspect I might have SIBO as well, but when I tried high orange juice (in addition to the 2 quarts of milk I already drink) I felt better for a few days and then began to feel worse. I thought I was drinking too many liquids. I imagine that increasing thyroid function might help me tolerate more liquids. I have a bottle of Tyromix so I will probably experiment with that.
 
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Jennifer

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Thank you! I suspect I might have SIBO as well, but when I tried high orange juice (in addition to the 2 quarts of milk I already drink) I felt better for a few days and then began to feel worse. I thought I was drinking too many liquids. I imagine that increasing thyroid function might help me tolerate more liquids. I have a bottle of Tyromix so I will probably experiment with that.
You’re welcome! :) Yeah, if your thyroid function is poor, I can see the OJ in addition to milk being a potential problem if you weren’t supplementing thyroid. I also wonder if it was potentially too much sugar for you to digest properly if you do have poor thyroid function? Prior to clearing the SIBO, I found that I had an issue with more than a certain amount of sugar (even simple sugar) due to poor sugar metabolism from being hypo, which is often a cause of SIBO. When I was overcoming the overgrowth, my diet was mainly seafood and fruit and only after I cleared it did I reintroduced milk into my diet because at that point, I was on NDT and had healed my gut so I thought I might have been producing the lactase enzyme efficiently enough to break down lactose.
 

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