Aging Associated With A Loss Of Ability To Metabolize Glucose

haidut

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Ray has written about this phenomenon so many times, and it also underscores the futility of the attempt to cure diabetes by making people oxidize fat more. According to this study, with aging the human mitochondria progressively lose the ability to oxidize glucose. They can oxidize fat just fine, but when challenged with glucose the aging cells acts like a type II diabetic - i.e. they are "insulin resistant" and cannot properly switch from oxidizing fat to oxidizing glucose. So, keeping them at oxidizing fat through frugs like metformin is a stupid way of actually avoiding the problem - i.e. since glucose oxidation is a problem let's focus on oxidizing fat and wreak even more havoc on the system while avoiding glucose at all costs. This makes cells even less able to oxidize glucose in the long run. Ray says that instead we should be providing more glucose to inhibit the Randle effect. However, simply providing more glucose may not be sufficient - i.e. the cells may have damage already and are unable to oxidize glucose. I actually wrote about this in one of my "rants" - i.e. just loading up on glucose may not do the trick since damaged cells have reduced ability to oxidize the glucose anyways. What is needed are agents that "force" the damaged / aging cell to oxidize glucose again. Two such excellent agents are caffeine and thyroid, with aspirin also showing some effectiveness.
Finally, as you can see from the study the phenomenon "insulin resistance" is a misnomer. Insulin release and uptake was the same in both aging and young people. There is instead "glucose oxidation resistance", so the glucose lingers around in the bloodstream. The good news is that it seems for most people insulin release does not decrease with age, so the issue is likely due exclusively to mitochondrial dysfunction, which can be reverses with proper supplementation. In practical terms, to restore proper glucose oxidation, one could take 200mg caffeine with every meal or 1 grain of thyroid. These are the doses shown to maintain glucose oxidation following a large meal.

medicalxpress.com/news/2015-09-mitochondrial-function-age.html

"...First, Petersen et al. did an oral glucose test and checked the subject's IMCL content. After fasting, elderly subjects had higher plasma glucose concentrations than the younger subjects, but other factors, such as insulin concentration, were the same for both. After ingestion of glucose, the concentration of glucose and insulin in plasma were found to be significantly higher in the elderly subjects. Proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy showed that IMCL content was 73% higher in elderly subjects."

"...After assessing the subject's glucose tolerance and IMCL content, Petersen, et al. then examined the subject's response to increased plasma insulin levels utilizing hyperglycemic-euglycemic clamp studies combined with stable isotopes of glucose. Both the young and elderly groups' insulin levels were increased while their glucose levels were kept the same by a variable infusion of glucose. Under these conditions of matched plasma glucose and increased plasma insulin concentrations elderly subjects metabolized glucose at a rate that was 25% slower than the younger subjects. This reduced rate of insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism could be attributed to reduced rates of nonoxidative glucose disposal due to reduced activity of ATK2, an important insulin signaling protein."

"...These results indicate that after insulin stimulation, the younger group switched from lipid oxidation to glucose oxidation, while this switch did not occur in the elderly group. This points to a problem in insulin signaling in the muscle associated with aging and may be a contributing factor to the higher incidence of type 2 diabetes and glucose intolerance in elderly people."
 

narouz

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Could eating a low fat diet while supplying plenty of sucrose (and protein)
encourage the shift from fat-burning to carb-burning...?
 
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narouz said:
post 98695 Could eating a low fat diet while supplying plenty of sucrose (and protein)
encourage the shift from fat-burning to carb-burning...?

I attempted to do just that but even at a caloric deficit and maintenance, I gained fat and worsened my health (I want from lean/athletic to overweight). Sugar per se is not damaging but taking it when one's cells cannot oxidise it accelerates the degenerative processes (especially at a caloric surplus) -- it's what the study above shows and I confirmed it through my experience.

Besides, haidut's already addressed this:

haidut said:
post 98607

...
I actually wrote about this in one of my "rants" - i.e. just loading up on glucose may not do the trick since damaged cells have reduced ability to oxidize the glucose anyways. What is needed are agents that "force" the damaged / aging cell to oxidize glucose again. Two such excellent agents are caffeine and thyroid, with aspirin also showing some effectiveness.
...

I think 'forcing' sugar oxidation should be coupled with 'forcing' a reduction in stress hormones. So in practise using caffeine or thyroid as well as pregnenolone and DHEA and perhaps cyproheptadine. 
 
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narouz

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Yeah, I haven't experimented with a lowfat Peat diet.
But I have tried adding more sugars than I really wanted,
and that didn't seem to accomplish anything good--just weight gain.
 

paymanz

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when i take one or two 300 mg thiamine tabs i really feel i can handle sugar lot better , even my appetite for carb is more on thiamine. niacinamide for sure can help.taurine , glycine , and t3 obviously can help it.
 

paymanz

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haidut said:
post 98607 In practical terms, to restore proper glucose oxidation, one could take 200mg caffeine with every meal or 1 grain of thyroid. These are the doses shown to maintain glucose oxidation following a large meal.
what about cytomel?
 
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narouz

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paymanz said:
post 98735
haidut said:
post 98607 In practical terms, to restore proper glucose oxidation, one could take 200mg caffeine with every meal or 1 grain of thyroid. These are the doses shown to maintain glucose oxidation following a large meal.
what about cytomel?

The notion about thyroid supp proximate to a meal...interesting.
I don't think I've ever come across that particular way of deploying thyroid.
It doesn't seem like it would work except with the T3 component
as the T4 wouldn't activate quickly enough to affect the digestion of the meal taken with...would it?
 
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haidut

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Tarmander said:
post 98693
lexis said:
How many drops of oxidal to get 200 mg of caffeine?

You may need a few bottles!

You don't need to get 200mg of caffeine from Oxidal to do the trick. I posted studies showing just a few mg of MB worked like thyroid in terms of glucose oxidation. So, I guess taking 2-5 drop of Oxidal with every meal should be enough. The caffeine in Oxidal is there for the uncoupling, not to give you a decent dose of caffeine on its own.
 
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haidut

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cantstoppeating said:
post 98727
narouz said:
post 98695 Could eating a low fat diet while supplying plenty of sucrose (and protein)
encourage the shift from fat-burning to carb-burning...?

I attempted to do just that but even at a caloric deficit and maintenance, I gained fat and worsened my health (I want from lean/athletic to overweight). Sugar per se is not damaging but taking it when one's cells cannot oxidise it accelerates the degenerative processes (especially at a caloric surplus) -- it's what the study above shows and I confirmed it through my experience.

Besides, haidut's already addressed this:

haidut said:
post 98607

...
I actually wrote about this in one of my "rants" - i.e. just loading up on glucose may not do the trick since damaged cells have reduced ability to oxidize the glucose anyways. What is needed are agents that "force" the damaged / aging cell to oxidize glucose again. Two such excellent agents are caffeine and thyroid, with aspirin also showing some effectiveness.
...

I think 'forcing' sugar oxidation should be coupled with 'forcing' a reduction in stress hormones. So in practise using caffeine or thyroid as well as pregnenolone and DHEA and perhaps cyproheptadine.

This. Also, maybe thiamine (B1) to help keep whatever glucose gets oxidized away from the lactate pathway. What I find remarkable about the above studies was that caffeine also reduced stress hormones (or at least the catecholamine portion of them). Pretty much what thyroid hormone does, but without the suppression of the gland.
 
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narouz

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haidut said:
post 98842
cantstoppeating said:
post 98727
narouz said:
post 98695 Could eating a low fat diet while supplying plenty of sucrose (and protein)
encourage the shift from fat-burning to carb-burning...?

I attempted to do just that but even at a caloric deficit and maintenance, I gained fat and worsened my health (I want from lean/athletic to overweight). Sugar per se is not damaging but taking it when one's cells cannot oxidise it accelerates the degenerative processes (especially at a caloric surplus) -- it's what the study above shows and I confirmed it through my experience.

Besides, haidut's already addressed this:

haidut said:
post 98607

...
I actually wrote about this in one of my "rants" - i.e. just loading up on glucose may not do the trick since damaged cells have reduced ability to oxidize the glucose anyways. What is needed are agents that "force" the damaged / aging cell to oxidize glucose again. Two such excellent agents are caffeine and thyroid, with aspirin also showing some effectiveness.
...

I think 'forcing' sugar oxidation should be coupled with 'forcing' a reduction in stress hormones. So in practise using caffeine or thyroid as well as pregnenolone and DHEA and perhaps cyproheptadine.

This. Also, maybe thiamine (B1) to help keep whatever glucose gets oxidized away from the lactate pathway. What I find remarkable about the above studies was that caffeine also reduced stress hormones (or at least the catecholamine portion of them). Pretty much what thyroid hormone does, but without the suppression of the gland.

Thanks guys!
 
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This is painfully confusing!! Are you now actually telling me that inability to oxidize sugar comes with age and that getting fat from sugar is actually a natural thing.....that i can't fight by eating sugar?!?! But not eating sugar and eating fat is equally stupid, right? And while eating fat wont make me fat, eating it is bad, while eating sugar will make me fat, but i shouldn't eat it anyway.....unless...

Unless i get a load of various lab-made supplements, in hich case i should be fine? This is my first post, because honestly this is getting ridiculous.
 

Blossom

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Welcome Two Devided by Zero. This post is just about some ideas to help restore glucose metabolism. :welcome
We discuss the topic a lot here. Feel free to explore the forum and ask any questions that may arise. We have many helpful members who would probably be glad to discuss this further.
 

Brian

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Two Devided by Zero said:
post 105741 This is painfully confusing!! Are you now actually telling me that inability to oxidize sugar comes with age and that getting fat from sugar is actually a natural thing.....that i can't fight by eating sugar?!?! But not eating sugar and eating fat is equally stupid, right? And while eating fat wont make me fat, eating it is bad, while eating sugar will make me fat, but i shouldn't eat it anyway.....unless...

Unless i get a load of various lab-made supplements, in hich case i should be fine? This is my first post, because honestly this is getting ridiculous.

The "aging" is just insulin resistance, free fatty acids, and low thyroid hormone which all make the amount of energy obtained from carbs lower. This can be reversed multiple ways, but generally involves eating lower fat.

The no supplement way that can work for some people is to just lower fat intake, increase easily digestible carbs to a high level, and change your lifestyle to include lots of sunlight, movement, and some strength training. For many people this leads to big improvements in health and fat loss.

Denise Minger wrote a good article how this works. http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-def ... ht-part-1/
 
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Amazoniac

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…And not a darned thing else. Kempner summed up the details himself in a 1974 article, readable here:

A patient takes an average of 250 to 350 gm. of rice (dry weight) daily; any kind of rice may be used provided no sodium, chloride, milk, etc. has been added during its processing. … All fruit juices and fruits are allowed, with the exception of nuts, [highlight=yellow]dates[/highlight], avocados and any dried or canned fruit or fruit derivatives to which substances other than white sugar have been added. [highlight=yellow]Not more than one banana a day should be taken[/highlight]. White sugar and dextrose may be used ad libitum; on an average a patient takes about 100 grams daily, but, if necessary, as much as 500 grams daily should be used. [highlight=yellow]Tomato[/highlight] and vegetable juices are not allowed.
?
 

Brian

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Amazoniac said:
post 105760
…And not a darned thing else. Kempner summed up the details himself in a 1974 article, readable here:

A patient takes an average of 250 to 350 gm. of rice (dry weight) daily; any kind of rice may be used provided no sodium, chloride, milk, etc. has been added during its processing. … All fruit juices and fruits are allowed, with the exception of nuts, [highlight=yellow]dates[/highlight], avocados and any dried or canned fruit or fruit derivatives to which substances other than white sugar have been added. [highlight=yellow]Not more than one banana a day should be taken[/highlight]. White sugar and dextrose may be used ad libitum; on an average a patient takes about 100 grams daily, but, if necessary, as much as 500 grams daily should be used. [highlight=yellow]Tomato[/highlight] and vegetable juices are not allowed.
?

That's just one of the studies Denise presents as evidence showing that a high carb low fat diet can be very effective for improving glucose metabolism and insulin resistance. Dates and bananas may work for some people, but I think generally people do better on lower fiber carb sources when first attempting to improve metabolism unless the fruits are very ripe and maybe blended or cooked to increase digestibility.
 
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Brian

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Amazoniac said:
post 105771 But there are other fruits that are also high in fiber that were not excluded. Is there something special about the finer in dates?

I'm not sure what the researcher's reasoning was behind their exclusion list or if it had anything to do with fiber in this particular study. I just know for myself that the more easier digested the better when attempting to restore metabolism. Unless you are able to get very ripe fruit, in my experience you are usually better off cooking or blending it in order to get more net calories from it.
 
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