Cannabis: Pro Or Anti-metabolic?

[boris]

A few years ago I was using weed oil for relaxation. I found one bottle that was over a year old and after taking a couple drops I felt little effect so I thought it had lost its potency. After some time I just decided to drink up the whole bottle. Felt hardly anything for a couple hours before it hit me hard. The next five or six hours were the scariest of my life. My heartrate went up to 160+ and I could hardly talk or walk anymore. I also felt incredibly weird like nothing I've ever experienced before. I started having slurred speech and thought that was due to brain damage. So I called the emergency hotline as I was convinced I was dying. I had to crawl to the door to open it and they found me lying on the floor. They gave me an intravenous tranquillizer in an attempt to slow down my heart rate which didn't help. So I ended up at the ER because of cardiac arrhythmia. Luckily I turned out to be okay. Looking back, it's just a funny story (kind of like in the Wolf of Wall Street) but at the time it was the scariest thing I've ever experienced.

The good thing about this is that it made me immune to cannabis induced panic attacks ever since, and I've had numerous. That's because if there was ever a time I could die from it it would've been then. With smoking it's impossible to inhale the same amount I got from drinking it, it was a real cannabis overdose.

The typical edibles story .

A high dose of edibles is like a psychedelic/anesthetic mixture. It's not really pleasurable but it can be interesting, but if you fight to stay in reality you will have a really bad time. The extreme panic comes from the ego trying to fight it. If you want to gain something from the experience, just accept that this will last as long as it has to and accept you can't walk right now and trying to look straight makes you dizzy. You have to lay down and close your eyes to enjoy the trip.

 

[Peater Griffin]

It was always the increased heart rate that made me freak out because I was scared of getting a heart attack...

You can counter the pounding/racing heart with a few milligrams of lidocaine. (It's a "peaty" substance and accompanies cannabis very well.)

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Cannabis edibles aren't to be trifled with. I recommend avoiding them unless you're treating a chronic illness or you are buying them from a dispensary in a 10mg THC or less format. This is especially important if you are going to be medicated in public. I got screwed over by a hot spot in a batch of edibles once. I took one dose during a long flight with a layover connection and it hit me with unbelievable intensity. It took all I had to keep from panicking when it came time to navigate through the airport to make my connection.

High doses will make you hallucinate snowflake-like patterns on surfaces and maybe you'll see a hexagonal filament overlay that shifts colors. At the same time though you'll feel drunk or out of it and have trouble staying awake. If you're after that kind of effect the natural hallucinogens are a better option but I can't recommend those either.

Anyway, back on topic. I've read through a few other boards and from what I gather the majority of cannabis users who quit gain a significant amount of weight. This is strange to me since I feel that THC has palpable anti-metabolic effects (slowed digestion, decreased body temperature, lethargy). So far, my weight has dropped since quiting but I will report back with an update next week.

 

[Jib]

I avoid edibles for this reason.

However, metabolism aside, it is a powerful spiritual tool. I keep my tolerance very low (only get high once every few weeks, or as the mood takes me, but rarely more frequently than that), so I can get an almost psychedelic experience just from smoking.

Every single time it makes me feel like my emotions are "back online." And it's the only thing keeping me in touch with my emotions lately. I've become pretty heavily repressed out of self-protection. Cannabis helps keep me "human" in my opinion, reminds me that I still love the people I love, that I cherish life and how short and beautiful it is, etc.

I've closed the floodgates on my emotions during my normal life. For a long time now. Cannabis helps undo that temporarily and reminds me I still have these things within me. In that sense I have a lot of respect for this plant and treat it very seriously.

High amounts, enough to cause a panic attack, can be interesting. It is true about the ego fighting for control and struggling to let go. It's for that same reason that panic attacks can be consciously stopped with the right mindset. I feel like with cannabis, this is manageable.

I've only ever done small amounts of mushrooms. Not enough to completely trip. I'm still afraid of taking a "full dose" of either shrooms or LSD because I don't trust that I'll remain in control like I do with weed. I've had some pretty scary experiences with weed being way, way too high (like my very first time where I did 5-6 hits of hash...no one told me what to do or guided me and I had no experience with the drug or how to use it, they told me to smoke that much.....smoking hash for your first time, and that much of it, was absolutely insane).

...thought I was dreaming, that my friend was an alien or had been taken over by some kind of other entity, or that I had been hospitalized in the mental hospital again and was experiencing all of this as a dream while sedated. Or something like that. It was a 3+ hour panic attack. That was awful. I think it being my first time, and not knowing what to expect, made it especially overwhelming; and that I was surrounded by strangers, except for my friend.

It does seem to take a toll on sleep and overall well being for me. It's like a spiritual drug; you get a lot of experience, wisdom and insight from it, but overdo it and you can burn out. That's what I think, and what's been my experience. I'd believe that it's anti-metabolic just based on my experience. But I don't think it's a problem unless use is daily or very frequent.

Lower doses however, I could believe they could even be pro-metabolic. I always get stoned when I smoke. It's possible that "the dose makes the poison," and small amounts where you barely notice that you're high may even be beneficial. However I think of cannabis as a spiritual/sacred plant and use and treat it as such, for personal growth and insight.

 

[ebs]

The typical edibles story .

A high dose of edibles is like a psychedelic/anesthetic mixture. It's not really pleasurable but it can be interesting, but if you fight to stay in reality you will have a really bad time. The extreme panic comes from the ego trying to fight it. If you want to gain something from the experience, just accept that this will last as long as it has to and accept you can't walk right now and trying to look straight makes you dizzy. You have to lay down and close your eyes to enjoy the trip.

I know, it's indeed wanting to "control" it aka fighting it that makes it worse, but high adrenaline does that...

 

[ebs]

You can counter the pounding/racing heart with a few milligrams of lidocaine. (It's a "peaty" substance and accompanies cannabis very well.)

Do I need a prescription for that?

 

[Jessie]

You can counter the pounding/racing heart with a few milligrams of lidocaine. (It's a "peaty" substance and accompanies cannabis very well.)

Where has Peat mentioned lidocaine before, just curious.

Also how would one exactly go about getting it. I'm pretty sure it's a schedule controlled substance is it not?

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Another short update: down another 3lbs/1.4kg this morning. That's 8lbs/3.6kg total in two days. My weight was stable at 150lbs/68kg before I quit cold turkey. Incredible to think that weed was making me hold that much water. At least I have to assume it was the weed since nothing else has changed.

 

[milkboi]

Cannabis, for me, is pro-metabolic. No doubt about that.

 

[laleto12]

Cannabis, for me, is pro-metabolic. No doubt about that.

Can you elaborate? How often/How mıuch do you smoke? How does it benefit your metabolism etc.

 

[boris]

Where has Peat mentioned lidocaine before, just curious.

Also how would one exactly go about getting it. I'm pretty sure it's a schedule controlled substance is it not?

In germany you can get it pure as 1% solution in water over the counter. You can order online too. It is usually used to inject into the skin to numb it for further procedure.

I think Peat mentionend it as brain protective, anti-cancer, and anti-inflammatory (gut and skin) in small amounts.

 

[rei]

I appreciate the suggestions and well wishes. The story is a long one but in short I had a serious mold issue in my home's ac system which I had remediated. It was causing some very disturbing symptoms, first in my dog and then myself. I thought I'd be able stay inside after remediation but I was sleeping poorly and waking up with bloody sinuses. So, I've been sleeping in my truck which is both hot and uncomfortable hence the need for a sleep aid. I managed to sell the house which is due to close at the end of the month so I just need to persevere a bit longer.

Does the buyer know it is moldy? From the way you put it sounds like you might committing fraud.

 

[Jessie]

In germany you can get it pure as 1% solution in water over the counter. You can order online too. It is usually used to inject into the skin to numb it for further procedure.

I think Peat mentionend it as brain protective, anti-cancer, and anti-inflammatory (gut and skin) in small amounts.

Interesting, thanks for this info. Upon further investigation, I realize lidocaine isn't a controlled substance here in the U.S either. It is RXed, meaning prescription only, however if it's not a controlled substance then it should technically be obtainable for "lab purposes" without much hassle.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Does the buyer know it is moldy? From the way you put it sounds like you might committing fraud.

Then I should clarify. I wrote in the past tense. The mold is gone. The ac system has no visible mold and the air it circulates no longer smells musty. I spent quite a bit to have it remediated. I became overly sensitised to the mold so the spores and dead mold affect me still but to far lesser degree. I'm back sleeping in the house and the only issue is my sinuses in the morning. I think the remediation chemical, pure phenol, played some role in my bloody sinuses. The mold tests I had done did not reveal any stachybotrys toxic black mold so the issue was apparently me and my immune system.

Also, for what it's worth, the buyers are mostly interested in the land as that's where 80 percent of the property value is.

 

[Mattlebl]

Weed has become so strong and intense that many people don’t enjoy the effects anymore. CBD flower is a great alternative.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Cannabis, for me, is pro-metabolic. No doubt about that.

I also would love to hear you elaborate on this.

Weed has become so strong and intense that many people don’t enjoy the effects anymore. CBD flower is a great alternative.

I find the effects of CBD so subtle that it could almost be considered placebo. It's probably best used topically as a pain reliever or to lower inflammation.

 

[Peater Griffin]

Where has Peat mentioned lidocaine before, just curious.

Here are some Ray Peat quotes on lidocaine:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/ray-peat-phd-on-28278686

He thinks 50-100mg daily is safe. (I wouldn't necessarily recommend daily use due to its antihistamine actions and) I think 20mg or even less is sufficient for our purpose here. With that + smoking weed, you'll still get a high heart rate and feel that; but unpleasant heavy pounding and arrythmia should be eliminated by the lidocaine. And therefore I think it could possibly prevent cannabis induced panic attacks.

 

[Jessie]

Here are some Ray Peat quotes on lidocaine:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/ray-peat-phd-on-28278686

He thinks 50-100mg daily is safe. (I wouldn't necessarily recommend daily use due to its antihistamine actions and) I think 20mg or even less is sufficient for our purpose here. With that + smoking weed, you'll still get a high heart rate and feel that; but unpleasant heavy pounding and arrythmia should be eliminated by the lidocaine. And therefore I think it could possibly prevent cannabis induced panic attacks.

Thanks, I'm going to have to look into lidocaine more deeply some day. Sounds like it's reaction inside the organism is the polar opposite of cocaine, which I find wild because I always thought they were chemically similar. Guess I was wrong about that.

I've never really had panic attack from smoking weed. The edibles are a huge problem for me though. I think cyproheptadine has similar effects at blunting cannabis induced anxiety, at least for one of my friends who offered to be my guinea pig, lol.

 

[LA]

I am an old hippie and I look okay and feel good even though I have scleroderma. I do not smoke marijuana. I watched a lot of women who smoked weed age-rapidly before their time. My husband has been smoking weed for 55 (fifty-five) years. He is fine. He will only smoke natural home-grown with no additives rolled in natural paper. He never smokes blunts or any nicotine. He also does not drink alcohol. He has been in a lot of motorcycle wreaks and he was run over by a truck when he was a youngster of 6-years. The pot helps him sleep and ignore any aches and pains. I lived in Haight Asbury and also hippie communes and observed that the tougher guys do the best with weed otherwise it has a tendency to feminize men and make some fatter since they sit around eating too much. Rowdy guys should all be given weed to smoke; it is safer for everyone else. The healing solution for those on mind bending SSRIs due to post traumatic stress and etc, would be improved by having them smoke weed instead.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Thank you for sharing, L.A. I agree that cannabis would serve people a lot better than SSRIs and other pharmaceuticals like beta blockers and opioids, though it isn't without its own side effects, contrary to the opinion of some advocates. Smoking it, or any substance for that matter, is injurious. There are much better routes of administration like vaporisation, sublingual tinctures, or accurately dosed edibles.

it has a tendency to feminize men and make some fatter

This is what I find most concerning and the main reason why I quit weed last week. Anything that feminizes men is I think by definition anti-metabolic. I doubt weed has ever made a single male more masculine in the sense of muscularity, confidence, and drive. Based on what info we have, I believe it's prudent to use it sparingly unless one is using it to treat a medical condition.