Marijuana May Cause Psychosis/schizophrenia By Increasing Serotonin Signalling

[managing]

Thank you. Never had edibles so will try that in the very low dose.
Curious, why only TCH and no CBD emphasized?

Thanks again!

REally just so I was clear on what the product was that I had a good experience with. But my understanding is that CBD negates many of the desirable effects of THC. I think the whole "medical marijuana" legacy really emphasized CBD because it doesn't make you high but has lots of very good benefits for pain control and inflammation.

I am interested in CBD only in the future, but it seems to me that one is for "fun" and one is therapeutic. That may be an oversimplification, but if I want to get stoned, I think I'll omit the CBD .

 

[anqele]

Good to know

 

[rei]

When you increase the activity or sensitivity of a serotonin receptor you end up reducing the overall serotonin load on the body. Since the signal goes through with less signalling. Essentially it means that 2A serotonin effect is enhanced while others are proportionally diminished.

 

[Lyall]

This tends to be caused by verbal overload - i.e. too much reading or talking. I have experienced it myself and find that not using any computer or watching TV or avoiding spending hours talking about pointless stuff helps a lot. I try to have that non-verbal experience one day of the week. Peat also mentioned this and said his method is not talking at all for one day of the week and just painting. Small children, who dwarf adults in terms of intelligence, do not talk much. They just observe and learn. This state of mind is what the philosophical field of Phenomenology tries to induce purposefully - i.e. the return to the pure "experiential" state of consciousness that children have. The technique the phenomenologists have to achieve this is called "epoche". Google it for more info...but after you spend a day away from computers

@haidut

This is so fascinating and was alluded to briefly in the one generative energy podcast. Is there a separate thread that goes into more detail about this? Possibly the scientific rationale and justification?

 

[managing]

When you increase the activity or sensitivity of a serotonin receptor you end up reducing the overall serotonin load on the body. Since the signal goes through with less signalling. Essentially it means that 2A serotonin effect is enhanced while others are proportionally diminished.

I've often wondered how to interpret "increases sensitivity" or "blocks receptor". Thanks, very enlightening.

 

[anqele]

So if I take serotoin supplement with weed I won’t go crazy, but rather enjoy a nice high?

 

[CarbAppreciator]

Fascinating, and it lines up nicely with my perception of drug addicts and their apparent inability to deal with reality, even mundane realities that children can handle, like performing reciprocal favors for a friend, or empathizing with another who is feeling a complex emotion. I'm picturing their frontal cortex being clouded with fantasies, which displaces cost benefit analysis and calculating futures etc.

 

[rei]

So many replies i do not really understand, but instead of drilling into them one-by-one let me clarify what i said: If one serotonin receptor subtype is sensitized then if it has any general negative feedback then all other subtypes are dampened by definition.

The question is: do you want an active HT2A over other subtypes or not? I don't know enough to say anything about this specific issue, but this is the fundamental issue at hand. Looking at it as increased serotonin signalling is simplified if not outright wrong.

 

[Spokey]

I had a friend that would have psychotic/violent episodes whenever he smoked weed, so this thread doesn't surprise me and I've always been a bit leery of it since then.

 

[managing]

I had a friend that would have psychotic/violent episodes whenever he smoked weed, so this thread doesn't surprise me and I've always been a bit leery of it since then.

I think your friends weed may have been laced with something. Wasn't terribly uncommon. QC is an upside to legalization.

Marijuana does not make anybody violent. I am sure I avoided a severe ****-kicking once due to being high when I was attacked by several gang members. Sober i would have fought back. Instead I started talking and got out of it literally with a tiny scratch.

 

[Frankdee20]

isn't high dopamine one of the causes of Schizophrenia ?

This postulation may have emerged during the mid twentieth century. Amphetamine psychosis exhibits virtually identical symptoms as paranoid schizophrenia. New antipsychotics now target 5ht2a, or have mixed affinity for Serotonin. Perhaps this target emerged from identitying how psychedelics agonize 2A.

 

[Frankdee20]

I've often wondered how to interpret "increases sensitivity" or "blocks receptor". Thanks, very enlightening.

Increased sensitivity also is different from upregulation

 

[ImprovingDaily]

I think your friends weed may have been laced with something. Wasn't terribly uncommon. QC is an upside to legalization.

Marijuana does not make anybody violent. I am sure I avoided a severe ****-kicking once due to being high when I was attacked by several gang members. Sober i would have fought back. Instead I started talking and got out of it literally with a tiny scratch.

I've smoked all kinds of weed, illegal ***t grown by dealers and top shelf medicinal. I've felt paranoid and schizo type moods from all types of quality buds. Just because your physiology doesn't incline you to feel that way doesn't mean it's not true for a lot of other people.

 

[LUH 3417]

I've smoked all kinds of weed, illegal ***t grown by dealers and top shelf medicinal. I've felt paranoid and schizo type moods from all types of quality buds. Just because your physiology doesn't incline you to feel that way doesn't mean it's not true for a lot of other people.

I had a bout of psychosis and was diagnosed as schizoaffective after a winter of heavy weed smoking. And it was medicinal weed from California and well grown and all that. I’m not sure if it was my lifestyle habits during the time or the weed. I was living in a moldy apt and not eating much and under a lot of emotional stress. I think for me the weed was def a contributing factor tho. My thought processes were severe and delusional and my paranoia just mounted until I had a complete break down. I wasn’t using any other drugs either.

 

[ImprovingDaily]

I had a bout of psychosis and was diagnosed as schizoaffective after a winter of heavy weed smoking. And it was medicinal weed from California and well grown and all that. I’m not sure if it was my lifestyle habits during the time or the weed. I was living in a moldy apt and not eating much and under a lot of emotional stress. I think for me the weed was def a contributing factor tho. My thought processes were severe and delusional and my paranoia just mounted until I had a complete break down. I wasn’t using any other drugs either.

I was never diagnosed as schizophrenic but I developed paranoia and I remember I'd write all types of weird thoughts in my phone that came up while high as if they were true or important. I think our physiology somehow leans towards schizo type personalities and weed can be the trigger to tip the scale.

 

[General Orange]

'The Bicameral Mind'
In 1976, psychologist and Princeton lecturer Julian Jaynes published The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, a radical detailing of mankind's ascension to a state of true consciousness.

According to Jaynes' daring hypothesis, man had no consciousness until 1000 BC. Before that time, language had developed slowly for a long period: commands from 40000 BC, nouns from 25000 BC, and names from 10 000 BC, at the time of the emergence of agriculture. Language, the speech areas, evolved in the left hemisphere (in right-handed) which, as Jaynes underlined, is a mystery since most human structures are bilateral and a neurological organisation necessary for language also exists in the right hemisphere, but with no observable function.

Jaynes proposes that the bicameral mind in man operated between 10 000 BC and 1000 BC. The left hemisphere was the site for speech, the right for hallucinations, which expressed voices and commands of gods and demons. The breakdown of the bicameral mind was according to Jaynes caused by “the weakening of the auditory by the advent of writing, the inherent fragility of hallucinating control, the unworkableness of gods in the chaos of historic upheaval, the positing of internal cause in the observation of differences in others… and a modicum of natural selection”. Then consciousness and self-awareness evolved-and (hopefully) still does.

Jaynes founded his theory on psycho-historical analysis and on such neurobiological knowledge that was available around 1970. As a psychologist, an important part of Jaynes' theories were based on observations of schizophrenic patients. Neuroimaging techniques of today have illuminated and confirmed the importance of Jaynes' hypothesis. Belinda Lennox and colleagues (Feb 20, p 644)3 used spatial and temporal mapping of neural activity in a right-handed schizophrenic patient to show that his auditory hallucinations occurred in various parts of his right hemisphere, but not in his left which “could explain why the activations are misinterpreted as alien”. Similar findings were reported by Dierks and co-workers.4 Thus Jaynes' bold hypothesis on schizophrenia has been revived. But, in a broader context, his theories might be important with regard to two questions. Can differences in the evolution and the transition of the unicameral to the bicameral mind to present man with consciousness explain the horrors of our civilizations? What will, as evolution inevitably proceeds, the fourth “camera” contain?

 

[LUH 3417]

I was never diagnosed as schizophrenic but I developed paranoia and I remember I'd write all types of weird thoughts in my phone that came up while high as if they were true or important. I think our physiology somehow leans towards schizo type personalities and weed can be the trigger to tip the scale.

Well maybe it’s better than trustanoia

“Paranoia is an irrational belief that powerful forces are trying to harm you. It's likely that at least as many people suffer from its opposite, ‘trustanoia,’ an irrational belief that those in power are working for your benefit.” Comments on Cancer Therapy by Ray Peat (2016)

 

[ImprovingDaily]

Well maybe it’s better than trustanoia

“Paranoia is an irrational belief that powerful forces are trying to harm you. It's likely that at least as many people suffer from its opposite, ‘trustanoia,’ an irrational belief that those in power are working for your benefit.” Comments on Cancer Therapy by Ray Peat (2016)

Oh yeah. I think a healthy dose of rational paranoia is better than trusting everyone for no reason. Doesn't make for a fun time at times, but I've been screwed over enough to know better now.

 

[managing]

I've smoked all kinds of weed, illegal ***t grown by dealers and top shelf medicinal. I've felt paranoid and schizo type moods from all types of quality buds. Just because your physiology doesn't incline you to feel that way doesn't mean it's not true for a lot of other people.

I was commenting specifically on violent tendencies. I was giving an example, not reasoning from n=1. I've never met a violent stoned person . . . unless the pot was laced with something. And frankly its a well known effectf (inhibition of aggression).

Paranoia is a well known effect but should not be equated with schizophrenia. Those are two very different things.

 

[squanch]

REally just so I was clear on what the product was that I had a good experience with. But my understanding is that CBD negates many of the desirable effects of THC.

It also negates most of the negative effects described in this thread.
A critical review of the antipsychotic effects of cannabidiol: 30 years of a translational investigation. - PubMed - NCBI

Modern cannabis strains have a completely unbalanced THC/CBD ratio.
Unfortunately many people view the borderline psychosis you get from smoking those strains as a sign of high quality, strong cannabis.