Is It Really Possible To Ditch The Starch?

[Amazoniac]

People tend to top starches with foods that balance them. Examples would be toast with peanut butter and jelly, pasta with tomato sauce, etc. Many people here already commented how some of them taste bland without salt..
Without doubt non-grain starches are preferable.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Good for them!

 

[Dizzryda]

i swapped Starch for saturated fat, Best dietary decision yet.

Zachs, would you mind sharing what a typical daily diet would consist of, incorporating your new ideas about sf and sugar?

 

[Zachs]

i swapped Starch for saturated fat, Best dietary decision yet.

I'm definitely a friend of butter and coconut oil as it is, but this is something i've been thinking about. Are those your main sources? How do you use them without starch?

The majority of my calories is full fat dairy from milk, cheese, butter, yogurt, ice cream. Those are easy enough to consume without starch. Then some form of meat and or eggs daily and a bit of well cooked veg cooked in butter.

 

[Zachs]

I would say one should get most of their carbs from lactose and other simple sugars. Fruit after that, getting the bulk of your calories from fruit can be problematic, I'm starting to think the majority of fruit is a net negative on health.

What other simple sugars besides lactose and then fruits? sugar(sucrose) ? It's like you saying sugar(sucrose) > potatoes for example..? lol

I wouldn't consider whole fruit a simple sugar since It comes with a ton of fiber. I'm talking honey, tBl3 suger, maple syrup, etc. pulp free fruit juice is helpful as well. Yes I think sucrose is better than a potato.

 

[Zachs]

i swapped Starch for saturated fat, Best dietary decision yet.

Zachs, would you mind sharing what a typical daily diet would consist of, incorporating your new ideas about sf and sugar?

I have completely refined my diet these last four weeks. i no longer take supplements except glycine.

Typical day would be..

16oz pineapple juice
2-3 egg yolks fried in butter, w 3-6oz meat and or greens
1-2oz cream w coffee + sugar

32oz whole milk
2-3oz cheese
1 cup berries or melon

Carrot

32oz whole milk
6-12oz meat w or w/o greens cooked in butter

16oz pineapple juice
1/2- 1 pint ice cream

Everything liberally salted. That's it.

 

[jyb]

I'm sorry if this is an unnecessary thread. I suppose i would just like to hear more about peoples experiences about the possible withdrawal, or has it just been a walk in the park to quit eating starch.
Yeah jyb i don't really like to torture myself, if i crave the starch(or whatever) i will eat it. :)

I dropped all starches at once a few years ago, except for occasional experiments with extra cooked potatoes, first replacing by a lot of OJ or sucrose, then by fat and stayed on it as it worked a whole lot better. However I think good quality whole milk goes a long way already, it gives flexibility for the rest.

 

[YuraCZ]

Heh another cycle. So I'm going to zero starch again. I hate you guys, but I know that it's a good for me.. But it will be suck due to my histamine intolerance..

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Is is possible to ditch the starch? Yes.

If you have been consuming it often, there will be a transition phase once you stop that may last a month or so as your digestion bacteria either die off or switch to the other fuel sources. This will sometimes feel like you are not full even though you just ate a meal, and sometimes it will be a strong craving for the starch. Feeding these gut bacteria starch has an effect similar to opium, so it's understandable the feeling you are experiencing.

If not eating starch is stressing you out, the best bet would be to continue to eat it while you fix other possible problem areas.

If you want to make the no starch process easier, maybe trying something that will remove/kill off some of the bacteria. things like pau d'arco, flower of sulfur, carrots if you tolerate, etc.

Here are 116 quotes by Ray Peat on endotoxin:

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/1 ... endotoxin/

Out of 116 quotes, only 2 mention starch.

“Bacteria thrive on starches that aren’t quickly digested, and the bacteria convert the energy into bulk, and stimulate the intestine. (But at the same time, they are making the toxins that affect the hormones.)” - RP

Other quotes:

"Thyroid hormone increases digestive activity, including stomach acid and peristalsis, and both thyroid and progesterone increase the ability of the intestine to absorb sugars quickly; their deficiency can permit bacteria to live on sugars as well as starches.” - RP

Notice the "sugars" part as well?

"Besides avoiding foods containing fermentable fibers and starches that resist quick digestion, eating fibrous foods that contain antibacterial chemicals, such as bamboo shoots or raw carrots, helps to reduce endotoxin and serotonin.” - RP

Notice the "resist quick digestion" part?

Not a Peat view, but on the topic of starch Ari Whitten points out many cultures living off of starch:

"The Tukisenta tribe in New Guinea: According to Trowell and Burkitt in their book Western Diseases, the Tukisenta ate a diet consisting mostly of sweet potatoes, which was a whopping 94% carbohydrate. The men ate about 2,300 calories each day and the women ate about 1,770 calories each day. The scientists who went to study this tribe found them to be fit, lean, and muscular.

Kitava: Up until very recently—the 1990s—the people of the South Pacific island of Kitava had not been influenced by the Western diet and had continued eating the traditional diet that they’d eaten for centuries. Dr. Staffan Lindeberg researched this population heavily during the 1990s and found that their diet consisted mostly of taro, sweet potatoes, cassava, fruit, coconut, and seafood. They ate about 50g a day of unrefined sugar from fruit. Their diet came in at a whopping 69% carbohydrate. Lindeberg found that there were literally no cases of overweight or obesity on the entire island! The lone individual who was slightly overweight had left the island for several years to go live in the city. You may also be interested to know that their fasting insulin level (a measure of insulin resistance and diabetes) was extremely low, and that diabetes and heart disease were unheard of on the island. A diet that is 69% carbohydrates and not a single person on the island has diabetes, and not a single person was even overweight, let alone obese. Lindeberg’s excellent research on the Kitavans makes it very clear that large consumption of carbohydrates does not cause overweight and obesity. 127

The Okinawans: They eat a diet made up of a whopping 85% carbohydrates (9% protein, 6% fat), mainly from starchy sweet potatoes, and had minimal incidence of diabetes prior to Westernization.226"

Whitten, Ari; Smith MD, Wade (2015-02-05). The Low Carb Myth: Free Yourself from Carb Myths, and Discover the Secret Keys That Really Determine Your Health and Fat Loss Destiny (Kindle Locations 2373-2390). Archangel Ink. Kindle Edition.

 

[mt_dreams]

Here are 116 quotes by Ray Peat on endotoxin:

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/1 ... endotoxin/


"Besides avoiding foods containing fermentable fibers and starches that resist quick digestion, eating fibrous foods that contain antibacterial chemicals, such as bamboo shoots or raw carrots, helps to reduce endotoxin and serotonin.” - RP

Notice the "resist quick digestion" part?


Not a Peat view, but on the topic of starch Ari Whitten points out many cultures living off of starch:
"The Tukisenta tribe in New Guinea
Kitava
The Okinawans

Hey Westside,
I've read over that blog post before, great material.

I see no problem in someone trying 'no starch' to see if they function better. There's a definate transistion phase, and it's good to know of some of the things that might take place, as well as things you could take to possibly lessen the negative reactions during the transition.

I'm not at zero starch as I have too many presures from family & friends, so I give in from time to time when white rice or potatoes are offered. For 2-3 days after eating starch, my anus gets itchy (usually at night), so there is definately something bacteria related that is taking place within my body. This might be b/c as you wrote, they 'resist quick digestion', which might lead to fuel being available deeper into the colon than sugar would allow for. but this is a wild guess on my part.

Yes blue zone inhibitants live a nice long life on massive amounts of starch. Most of these communities (at least the people used in the studies) are living an old way of life, with lots of time spend outdoors, clean air, moving, spending most of the day with friends & family, eating local, high sbo's, and so on. It's tough to determine just how someone who's being rung through the daily grinder, not sleeping enough, being bombared with competeing emf signatures, staring into a screen for a large part of the day, living in a concrete jungle, etc, would react. It would be nice to see some studies on some early baby boomers who have been eating like this, while going through the school/work system for 65 years, while living with the pollution caused by a major city.

 

[pboy]

yea its like that...what mt said. Most of those cultures...have a much more natural lifestyle, clean air, no toxins, and are in a consistent 24 hour pattern and live with natural light, no alarm clock or news, ect...if you took them and gave them a peat diet they'd live probably just as long or longer...
when I was vegan there was a period where id eat like half starch half fruit and I was doing really well, so its very possible to still develop the pancreas to efficiently utilize fresh cooked starch (I ate everything fresh which helps a lot). I still have to give the edge to if you can manage no starch, its better

 

[Shredder2]

Those healthier-than-westerners starch eating cultures are/were inadvertently practising calorie restriction. The Okinawans ate less than 2000 calories a day. CRON is partially based on these starch eating cultures.

Also, In my personal opinion, observation and experience, starch+animal food is a bad food combination, yet is the most common food pairing. I believe that lowering animal food consumption may be beneficial if you only ever eat animal foods paired with starch.

 

[tara]

I haven't been able to manage more than a day or two without starches in a row yet. I drink quite a lot of apple juice, and I wonder whether part of what I'm wanting is a bit more glucose to balance out the higher fructose ratio in AJ. I haven't ruled out trying no starch at some stage, but I'm not currently into totally overruling my cravings. I figure if I can get what I need other ways, I may lose the craving.

Potatoes seem to serve me much better than wheat, and probably better than other grains too. I only have a fairly small capacity for other starchy veges like sweet potatoes, pumpkin.

 

[Zachs]

Those cultures that eat a starch based diet have done so their entire lives without ever deviating with different foods or having their gut bacteria compromised.

Just think about that for a second, since birth we have been eating a massive mixture of foods from all around the world as well as artificial additives, refined foods, etc. In our lifetime you have probably eaten thousands of different substances. Not so for the starch eaters or any other culture that subsists only on their native diet. Maybe a total of several dozen foods, herbs and other spices ever in their entire lives.

 

[Peat's_Girl]

I found that if I eat lots of fat and sugar (especially from dairy) I have no cravings for starch.
I've been doing this lately and I can bypass the bread isle without hesitation, which is HUGE for someone like me (who loves to snack, especially on chips, tortilla chips, gluten free snacks, etc.).

 

[Nicholas]

i don't crave grains at all. i crave roots sometimes more noticeably than others and eat them regularly but it's not the same feeling as the feeling i would have in the past when i craved "starch" (i.e. grains). i think my craving for roots is largely based on some quality in the fiber. Like i sometimes have strong cravings for roots and zucchini (totally apart from cravings for fruit). I get plenty of potassium and other nutrients in my diet and eat fruit with every meal - so i think there must be something specific about the fiber of squash type foods and roots that my gut really desires right now. Also, i could bake a potato and eat it right out of the oven and feel really tired. If i were to roast a parsnip or turnip and eat it right out of the oven i don't get that reaction at all. even further - i don't get the tired reaction from potatoes if they cool overnight.

 

[signalguy]

i swapped Starch for saturated fat, Best dietary decision yet.

Zachs, would you mind sharing what a typical daily diet would consist of, incorporating your new ideas about sf and sugar?

I have completely refined my diet these last four weeks. i no longer take supplements except glycine.

Typical day would be..

16oz pineapple juice
2-3 egg yolks fried in butter, w 3-6oz meat and or greens
1-2oz cream w coffee + sugar

32oz whole milk
2-3oz cheese
1 cup berries or melon

Carrot

32oz whole milk
6-12oz meat w or w/o greens cooked in butter

16oz pineapple juice
1/2- 1 pint ice cream

Everything liberally salted. That's it.

That's about 5k calories a day, no?

 

[Zachs]

It could be! I havnt counted.

 

[signalguy]

It could be! I havnt counted.

That's what I get when I plug your diet into cronometer. Also, your macros are like 47F/34C/19P. Quite a change from your fat free days. Have you noticed any changes in mental state?

 

[Zachs]

Yes, and although I think I could never have lost the 40lbs or restored metabolism any other way, currently this high fat diet is much preferred to my no fat days.

The positives are more resilient to stress of all kinds, whether it be cold weather, child being sick, arguments, loss of sleep, etc my body and mind are more resilient.

My energy is also much more stable and in no longer need to eat for energy. Saturated fat alongside sugar seems to be preferences to sugar alongside starch.

Digestion is better as well. On the high carb (high fiber) I would need to go at least 2-3 times a day, sometimes with urgency. Now it's once a day and I no longer have any full or bloated, whatever you want to call it, feeling in the gut.

I enjoy this way of eating better as well. The foods are more satisfying and rarely do I crave starches. I actually havnt had any in over a month now.

The only negatives i have experienced have been a few episodes of heavy heart beat at night which is uncomfortable. Usually though this is after a meat based meal, I have never gotten it from dairy.