I Have Started And Stopped Starch Like 50 Times And The End Result Is Always The Same

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Okinawans eat a high carb plant based diet with sweet potatoes as their staple and have the longest life expectancy of anyone on the planet. They eat a 10:1 carb to protein ratio with 11% less calories than most countries. They also value community far more than Americans. They'd probably think we are all insane here arguing about whether starch is healthy or not.
A high-carb diet may explain why Okinawans live so long

Kitavans are another very healthy traditional people group that also eat high carb starch based diet. (yam, sweet potato and taro).
Well interestingly the Okinawa people's top cause of death is starch related Alzheimer's. Yayyy they live to be 100 not remembering anything, no thanks. I have a father doing that right now.
 

Jerkboy

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I am eating a shitload of starch at the moment. Three meals a day with meat.

God bless.

My serotonin is through the roof. Notice my authoritarian stance on topics.
 
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I am eating a shitload of starch at the moment. Three meals a day with meat.

God bless.

My serotonin is through the roof. Notice my authoritarian stance on topics.
Ha! Ha! Ha! I love it! I have been taking some croissant shortcuts myself lately.
 

InChristAlone

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Well interestingly the Okinawa people's top cause of death is starch related Alzheimer's. Yayyy they live to be 100 not remembering anything, no thanks. I have a father doing that right now.
The traditional Okinawa diet gave them protection from most diseases that plagued the western world. They eat differently now than they did a hundred yrs ago. They eat more calories and foods they never ate before. And yet they still suffer less dementias than Americans. Indians also suffer way less dementias and they owe it to turmeric.

No idea where the idea that starch increases Alzheimer's came from. I presume because Peat believes the starch particles are absorbed intact and block capillaries, but there's no proof this is the cause of disease. I don't see too many healthy fruitarians which are eating practically zero starch, they should be the healthiest on the planet. Also we should be seeing the world's healthiest people on this forum who consume very little starch and loads of fruit sugar, but I'd argue it's the direct opposite unfortunately even if there are people doing wonderfully without starch.

A dude I knew in the Ray Peat facebook world in the last yr or two nearly died of a heart attack, he had extremely blocked arteries. So much for sugar and high protein protecting your arteries. He's the dude who sold the Aminos. Also another dude named Kevin who was a prominent figure died suddenly and left behind multiple children. I presume heart attack or stroke as his wife was hush hush about it after. Then there was the trainer Zachariah Salazar who had kidney failure, never came out saying what caused it but he was doing the Ray Peat stuff to a 'T' and then some. I'd love to believe fructose, sugar, and lactose (and also high protein) vs starch for fuel is healthy but I'm just not seeing it too often.
 
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Progress888

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I agree. I feel dramatically better when I’m eating jasmine rice (amylopectin) compared to basmati (amylose). Amylopectin starches are essential pure sugar and shouldn’t feed bacteria/cause endotoxins isssues
Would parboiled rice fall into this category?
 

Apple

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Would parboiled rice fall into this category?
RP considers plain white rice better option than parboiled.

I agree. I feel dramatically better when I’m eating jasmine rice (amylopectin) compared to basmati (amylose). Amylopectin starches are essential pure sugar and shouldn’t feed bacteria/cause endotoxins isssues
Some people disagree. Amylopectin competes with glycogen since they have a very similar structure but amylopectin is easily deposited in tissue causing lots of troubles.
I also read that Japanese high amylopectin rice is blamed for diabetes.
 
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The traditional Okinawa diet gave them protection from most diseases that plagued the western world. They eat differently now than they did a hundred yrs ago. They eat more calories and foods they never ate before. And yet they still suffer less dementias than Americans. Indians also suffer way less dementias and they owe it to turmeric.

No idea where the idea that starch increases Alzheimer's came from. I presume because Peat believes the starch particles are absorbed intact and block capillaries, but there's no proof this is the cause of disease. I don't see too many healthy fruitarians which are eating practically zero starch, they should be the healthiest on the planet. Also we should be seeing the world's healthiest people on this forum who consume very little starch and loads of fruit sugar, but I'd argue it's the direct opposite unfortunately even if there are people doing wonderfully without starch.

A dude I knew in the Ray Peat facebook world in the last yr or two nearly died of a heart attack, he had extremely blocked arteries. So much for sugar and high protein protecting your arteries. He's the dude who sold the Aminos. Also another dude named Kevin who was a prominent figure died suddenly and left behind multiple children. I presume heart attack or stroke as his wife was hush hush about it after. Then there was the trainer Zachariah Salazar who had kidney failure, never came out saying what caused it but he was doing the Ray Peat stuff to a 'T' and then some. I'd love to believe fructose, sugar, and lactose (and also high protein) vs starch for fuel is healthy but I'm just not seeing it too often.
Even Ray Peat says white sugar is to be used when fruit and honey are not available. There are many book about the brain destroying properties of starches, and wheat especially. I have written about my own father's Alzheimer's being triggered by grains, especially wheat when he is an otherwise normal person. Every health forum all agree grains "are not optimal". It doesn't mean if a person is healthy, like myself, that something bad is going to happen if I eat starches. Unfortunately most people that are ill should avoid them, they are splurges for the youthful and very healthy. I try to keep my splurges at a minimum for my continued good dental health. Oats are the worst for that.

"Grain Brain: The Surprising Truth about Wheat, Carbs, and Sugar--Your Brain's Silent Killers
Book by David Perlmutter and Kristin Loberg"

"Recent studies seem to show that gluten, most commonly found in wheat, rye and barley, may have a profound affect the brain and nervous system in many people. Researchers have found that eating gluten can potentially increase the risk of memory loss, dementia symptoms and Alzheimer's. Jun 28, 2019"
 

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sladerunner69

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In my experience, I had a major Herxheimer response about 3 days after quitting starch. It was severe, would have gone to the ER but my boyfriend at the time said he it could be a 'healing crisis' and sure enough, I was better by morning and the stomach pain never came back until I attempted to reintroduce a small amount of starch (won't be doing that again). I have dealt with extreme and debilitating gut inflammation for most of my life though, and a bacterial overflowth infection that was unresponsive to antibiotics so I suppose I was an extreme case.
Basically, quitting starch was essential for me. I think for people like me it's easy to continue to keep it out of the diet because adding it back in would be so much more painful. Necessity sparks creativity and I've found lots of foods to replace the need for starch. Drawing upon my HCLF fat, I eat lots of over-ripe bananas and dates to calories up and dried carrot sticks for when I want a crunchy texture.

I guess you wait until the bananas are very generously flecked with brown spots? Because unripe bananas are very starchy. Dates too have a lot of fiber and I know some people get serotonin reactions from them. I love both, especially with some milk and ice in a shake.
 

sladerunner69

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Even Ray Peat says white sugar is to be used when fruit and honey are not available. There are many book about the brain destroying properties of starches, and wheat especially. I have written about my own father's Alzheimer's being triggered by grains, especially wheat when he is an otherwise normal person. Every health forum all agree grains "are not optimal". It doesn't mean if a person is healthy, like myself, that something bad is going to happen if I eat starches. Unfortunately most people that are ill should avoid them, they are splurges for the youthful and very healthy. I try to keep my splurges at a minimum for my continued good dental health. Oats are the worst for that.

"Grain Brain: The Surprising Truth about Wheat, Carbs, and Sugar--Your Brain's Silent Killers
Book by David Perlmutter and Kristin Loberg"

"Recent studies seem to show that gluten, most commonly found in wheat, rye and barley, may have a profound affect the brain and nervous system in many people. Researchers have found that eating gluten can potentially increase the risk of memory loss, dementia symptoms and Alzheimer's. Jun 28, 2019"

This book also includes carbs in general and even sugar as brain killers... Have you read through it? The brain absolutely requires glucose to function and is the most sugar-hungry organ of any at rest.
 
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This book also includes carbs in general and even sugar as brain killers... Have you read through it? The brain absolutely requires glucose to function and is the most sugar-hungry organ of any at rest.
I have read Wheat Belly, but there are plenty of other books, addressing your comment about never hearing it is a culprit in metal diseases. Between Wbeat Belly and my father's Alzheimer's grain triggers I am convinced that grains are problematic. Maybe they weren't always that way, but between poor soil and their altered genetics I have seen several people's personalities.change eating them. You gotta have a really good gut to eat them regularly and then if you do eat them regularly then there goes the good gut, and teeth. I have nothing against sugar, except it has no nutrition. I never EVER ate it until 5 years ago.
 
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The traditional Okinawa diet gave them protection from most diseases that plagued the western world. They eat differently now than they did a hundred yrs ago. They eat more calories and foods they never ate before. And yet they still suffer less dementias than Americans. Indians also suffer way less dementias and they owe it to turmeric.

No idea where the idea that starch increases Alzheimer's came from. I presume because Peat believes the starch particles are absorbed intact and block capillaries, but there's no proof this is the cause of disease. I don't see too many healthy fruitarians which are eating practically zero starch, they should be the healthiest on the planet. Also we should be seeing the world's healthiest people on this forum who consume very little starch and loads of fruit sugar, but I'd argue it's the direct opposite unfortunately even if there are people doing wonderfully without starch.

A dude I knew in the Ray Peat facebook world in the last yr or two nearly died of a heart attack, he had extremely blocked arteries. So much for sugar and high protein protecting your arteries. He's the dude who sold the Aminos. Also another dude named Kevin who was a prominent figure died suddenly and left behind multiple children. I presume heart attack or stroke as his wife was hush hush about it after. Then there was the trainer Zachariah Salazar who had kidney failure, never came out saying what caused it but he was doing the Ray Peat stuff to a 'T' and then some. I'd love to believe fructose, sugar, and lactose (and also high protein) vs starch for fuel is healthy but I'm just not seeing it too often.
To you your sugar and high protein point, RP doesn't recommend high protein, 80 to 120 grams will do it for ordinary people, a little more for tge elderly or very active. hlHe doesn't recommend meat, so a bunch of pork, PUFA laden chicken, farmed seafood and conventional beef might kill anyone.. Ray Peat people are gonna die from vaccines, too much exercise, stress, suppliments and many other things.
 

InChristAlone

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Even Ray Peat says white sugar is to be used when fruit and honey are not available. There are many book about the brain destroying properties of starches, and wheat especially. I have written about my own father's Alzheimer's being triggered by grains, especially wheat when he is an otherwise normal person. Every health forum all agree grains "are not optimal". It doesn't mean if a person is healthy, like myself, that something bad is going to happen if I eat starches. Unfortunately most people that are ill should avoid them, they are splurges for the youthful and very healthy. I try to keep my splurges at a minimum for my continued good dental health. Oats are the worst for that.

"Grain Brain: The Surprising Truth about Wheat, Carbs, and Sugar--Your Brain's Silent Killers
Book by David Perlmutter and Kristin Loberg"

"Recent studies seem to show that gluten, most commonly found in wheat, rye and barley, may have a profound affect the brain and nervous system in many people. Researchers have found that eating gluten can potentially increase the risk of memory loss, dementia symptoms and Alzheimer's. Jun 28, 2019"
I thought you were referring to starches as a whole. Certainly grains are not the optimal food for humans but they are a large source of fuel for billions.

Also we shouldn't focus on one single thing in a diet as those who don't consume wheat still get dementia, there is no single solitary thing about a diet that makes you get dementia. This study found a correlation with junk food diets, high fat and high sugar, and less correlation with whole grain Mediterranean diets. And also, "A principal component analysis on nutrient intake patterns showed consumption of omega-3 fatty acids, zinc, vitamin B-12, and vitamin D was associated with decreased amyloid deposition" Dietary patterns and β-amyloid deposition in aging Australian women

This report says: "By increasing education in early life and addressing hearing loss, hypertension and obesity in midlife, the incidence of dementia could be reduced by as much as 20 percent, combined.

In late life, stopping smoking, treating depression, increasing physical activity, increasing social contact and managing diabetes could reduce the incidence of dementia by another 15 percent."

Sounds like just living an overall healthier lifestyle decreases your risk of dementia. High blood pressure, diabetes, strokes, depression and anxiety these all seem to be risk factors. Grains do not by themselves cause those things.
 
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I thought you were referring to starches as a whole. Certainly grains are not the optimal food for humans but they are a large source of fuel for billions.

Also we shouldn't focus on one single thing in a diet as those who don't consume wheat still get dementia, there is no single solitary thing about a diet that makes you get dementia. This study found a correlation with junk food diets, high fat and high sugar, and less correlation with whole grain Mediterranean diets. And also, "A principal component analysis on nutrient intake patterns showed consumption of omega-3 fatty acids, zinc, vitamin B-12, and vitamin D was associated with decreased amyloid deposition" Dietary patterns and β-amyloid deposition in aging Australian women

This report says: "By increasing education in early life and addressing hearing loss, hypertension and obesity in midlife, the incidence of dementia could be reduced by as much as 20 percent, combined.

In late life, stopping smoking, treating depression, increasing physical activity, increasing social contact and managing diabetes could reduce the incidence of dementia by another 15 percent."

Sounds like just living an overall healthier lifestyle decreases your risk of dementia. High blood pressure, diabetes, strokes, depression and anxiety these all seem to be risk factors. Grains do not by themselves cause those things.
Aluminum in deodorant is a culprit for dementia too. I am on the no starch side for optimal health, because I have seen it in my dad and girlfriend, and from giving it up totally for several years after reading the Wheat Belly book. I enjoy it here and there as a shortcut, more lately, but I don't try and convince myself I am giving myself something nutritional. Like RP has said, and I agree, potatoes have some very good nutritional benefits and you can tell they are not "animal food" because they don't need help from butter or sugar to be palatable.
 

Vins7

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Well potatoes are a different breed because, despite the love they get here (from certain people), they are inflammatory to certain persons (allergenic compounds) and contain (non Peat approved) fibres. Try going on a fibre free diet. You will also notice a rise in mood and wellbeing. But if you get on fine with them, carry on!

If you don’t believe in Peat’s starch article then that’s cool. We do what works for our body. Personally, I notice benefits from eliminating ALL starches.
Do you think that going on a fibre free diet could help with mood and wellbeing? What would you eat mainly? Meat, milk, honey, eggs...?
Personally, I have been constipated when I have tried no Fibre in the past, but at the same time I know that now I'm bloated due to Fibre and sugars...
 

Tenacity

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They have an addictive quality and stimulate the opiod receptors in the brain.

"Exogenous opioid substances are called exorphins, as opposed to endorphines. Exorphins include opioid food peptides like Gluten exorphin and opioid food peptides and are mostly contained in cereals and animal milk. They mimic the actions of endorphines because they bind to the same opioid receptors in the brain.

These are the most common exorphins:

That might explain a return to wheat but not to starch as a whole.

I think part of the issue with some folk is they don't understand what it's like to be an individual with a very large calorie requirement (3000 kcal+). It's just not practical to consume all of your carbohydrates as just fruit and milk sugar, because of the liquid content. That means consuming either more fat (which Peat has been advising against recently, to minimise PUFA and promote glucose oxidation), consuming nutrient devoid white sugar or honey, or consuming more carbohydrate in the form of starch. To put it into perspective, 100 calories from orange juice is 196g of water consumed. 100 calories from a potato is 89g of water. That's a lot of water from one source and less from the other, and when you add other Peaty things like milk, it adds up.
 
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That might explain a return to wheat but not to starch as a whole.

I think part of the issue with some folk is they don't understand what it's like to be an individual with a very large calorie requirement (3000 kcal+). It's just not practical to consume all of your carbohydrates as just fruit and milk sugar, because of the liquid content. That means consuming either more fat (which Peat has been advising against recently, to minimise PUFA and promote glucose oxidation), consuming nutrient devoid white sugar or honey, or consuming more carbohydrate in the form of starch. To put it into perspective, 100 calories from orange juice is 196g of water consumed. 100 calories from a potato is 89g of water. That's a lot of water from one source and less from the other, and when you add other Peaty things like milk, it adds up.
It is hard to be grain free no doubt, especially for someone like me that doesn't care much for fruit or meat. When I was grain free I found it easy to be grain free until I ate starches again and then I would want more. Now that I am dabbling again I have no desire for protein.
 

Markr2d2

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Complete BS.
You can maintain just as much social interaction with even a carnivore diet.

I don't drink alcohol and I don't eat anything besides meat, eggs, cheese and milk, and I'm at my best socially.
Never been so eloquent with friends and liked by them, and go on a lot of successful dates with incredible confidence.
It's all in your head.
Do you only get carbs from milk then?
 

InChristAlone

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That might explain a return to wheat but not to starch as a whole.

I think part of the issue with some folk is they don't understand what it's like to be an individual with a very large calorie requirement (3000 kcal+). It's just not practical to consume all of your carbohydrates as just fruit and milk sugar, because of the liquid content. That means consuming either more fat (which Peat has been advising against recently, to minimise PUFA and promote glucose oxidation), consuming nutrient devoid white sugar or honey, or consuming more carbohydrate in the form of starch. To put it into perspective, 100 calories from orange juice is 196g of water consumed. 100 calories from a potato is 89g of water. That's a lot of water from one source and less from the other, and when you add other Peaty things like milk, it adds up.
Exactly, and I don't tolerate a high liquid diet very well. I know a dude on here who consumes only milk, some liver, some seafood and is doing great, but I think he's the exception because he has fructose intolerance and probably would rather consume lactose for sugar than all starch. And if you optimize milk digestion it can be a good diet, but extremely monotonous! And I just wonder how it works out over the course of a lifetime. Whether it is the perfect diet or not. I tried making milk work and felt awful. Too much liquid for my kidneys.
 

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