If dairy is so good, why do a lot of people do better without dairy?

[akgrrrl]

raw goat's milk is an ELIXIR

This.

 

[akgrrrl]

Unfortunately, it isn't always the case that conventional dairy=bad and raw grassfed dairy=good. I had terrible reactions to both raw goat's milk AND raw cow's milk (A2, grassfed Amish stuff) when i was at my most sensitive. I still don't feel great on dairy, but I eat it from time to time.

There is a theory that people dealing with Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome or mold illness struggle with dairy (makes them massively depressed, myself included) because something about one of the proteins is similar to some mold toxin or byproduct. Idk, I can't recall exactly (big brain fog). But it definitely aligned with my experience. If you have an immune issue, even raw organic grassfed dairy can cause problems.

There was also a theory that some vaccines contain a dairy protein, and some people become sensitized to it/allergic after vaccination. Same with eggs.

I agree, it is known about the vaccines. To my point for the OP, this is also little-known to the bulk of humans; there is little discernment of "milk" content or production values. Even my grocery in Alaska has 30some variaties, most pick the cheapest with nary a question, then wonder why depression and gastro difficulties ensue.

 

[akgrrrl]

I can very clearly tell if the ground beef is of poor quality; it tastes gamey and slightly upsets my stomach.

Totally agree. I would never have had the opportunity to discern this if I had never lived here, eating clean moose meat and deepcold water salmon. Even though I know they use h2o2 to kill the smells before wrapping meat for display, the cooking reveals all, and it is nasty.

 

[Apple]

vaccines angle is over exaggerated

New research carried out by over 100 scientists and published in the journal Nature found that ancient Europeans were consuming milk as adults despite the fact that they did not yet have the ability to properly digest it, and drinking it likely caused them horrible gas and cramps.
Just 5,000 years ago, even though it was a part of their diet, virtually no adult humans could properly digest milk. But in the blink of an evolutionary eye northern Europeans began inheriting a genetic mutation that enabled them to do so.

Also most animals are lactose intolerant.
Mammals produce lactase so they can have their mother's milk. But most mammals become lactose intolerant after weaning. That means they lose the ability to digest lactose as they grow older because their body stops making the enzyme lactase.
In general, cats and dogs are lactose intolerant.

 

[akgrrrl]

vaccines angle is over exaggerated

New research carried out by over 100 scientists and published in the journal Nature found that ancient Europeans were consuming milk as adults despite the fact that they did not yet have the ability to properly digest it, and drinking it likely caused them horrible gas and cramps.
Just 5,000 years ago, even though it was a part of their diet, virtually no adult humans could properly digest milk. But in the blink of an evolutionary eye northern Europeans began inheriting a genetic mutation that enabled them to do so.

Also most animals are lactose intolerant.
Mammals produce lactase so they can have their mother's milk. But most mammals become lactose intolerant after weaning. That means they lose the ability to digest lactose as they grow older because their body stops making the enzyme lactase.
In general, cats and dogs are lactose intolerant.

Interesting pov as I watched adult cats and dogs slurp it up for 35 years
Lol@ "drinking it likely caused..."

 

[peter88]

vaccines angle is over exaggerated

New research carried out by over 100 scientists and published in the journal Nature found that ancient Europeans were consuming milk as adults despite the fact that they did not yet have the ability to properly digest it, and drinking it likely caused them horrible gas and cramps.
Just 5,000 years ago, even though it was a part of their diet, virtually no adult humans could properly digest milk. But in the blink of an evolutionary eye northern Europeans began inheriting a genetic mutation that enabled them to do so.

Also most animals are lactose intolerant.
Mammals produce lactase so they can have their mother's milk. But most mammals become lactose intolerant after weaning. That means they lose the ability to digest lactose as they grow older because their body stops making the enzyme lactase.
In general, cats and dogs are lactose intolerant.

You keep talking about lactose but not about the ability to break down casein. People who cannot breakdown casein don’t just have minor gut discomfort and gas like people with “lactose intolerance”.

 

[animalcule]

You keep talking about lactose but not about the ability to break down casein. People who cannot breakdown casein don’t just have minor gut discomfort and gas like people with “lactose intolerance”.

Exactly.

-“ Achksully studies show that most people and animals are lactose intolerant, even the people whose societies eat a dairy heavy diet!”

-“Ok but I’m not just lactose intolerant, even lactose-free dairy causes me issues, such as suicidal depression and grotesque skin issue and —“

-“The issue is overblown! People just don’t realize that our ancestors might have been a little gassy, too! Look at the studies!”


I can’t with the dairy debate sometimes. I think it’s a great, nutritious food! If your body can digest is well enough to not cause serious issues. People love dairy so much that even those who can’t really handle it are always looking for ways to be able to digest it, at least on this forum. Raw, A2, goats, kefir, yogurt, whatever. It’s odd, isn’t it, that even pristine dairy products can cause serious problems for ppl with gut or immune issues. And it’s not about the lactose.

 

[arcadia11]

Perhaps because few humans can distinguish a difference between WHICH milk. The natural milk from a cow that actually eats grass and utilizes its 4 stomachs to create a rich nutritious product, or cows locked in a 3ft cage with a hole to put their head slurping up a grain slurry to stay alive, heavily vaccinated with growth hormones, antibiotics God knows what, standing in 3feet of their own pee and poop with a milking machine attached, only released to go to the "rape cage", and only living a scant 4 years with such inhumane treatment instead of 25 yrs in a peaceful field with a normal herd with social order.

thank you

 

[golder]

I used to not be able to drink milk. Once i got rid of my SIBO things worked much better. Check your system see if it is working correctly.

Dude my intuition tells me this is exactly what I need to do. How did you get rid of SIBO?

 

[akgrrrl]

thank you

*curtseys*

 

[arcadia11]

*curtseys*

how delightfully elegant, a.

 

[food fortunato]

The timing of dairy makes all the difference for me. Drinking warm milk (98-99 degrees) 2 hours after dinner gives me a buffer. It’s delicious, helps me sleep better, gives me good energy the next day, honestly gives me a little buzz, and makes me feel like i have a great posture with no effort. I’ve gotten a few other milk sensitive people to try this approach, and they reported the same things on their own. Milk also has gotten me through various sick feelings and reactions.
I am an athlete and milk also helps me recover from workouts. I’m rarely sore or stiff. Sometimes i drink it in the morning before sports. I perform at my best this way, and notice i am at my most limber (although my body does prefer milk at night overall).
I drink it the night before boxing day.. however: i do not like it the night before a tennis day. It makes me too spaced out during the match.. but i feel fine before and after the match. I get spaced out about 6 games into the match, when my body starts to get a little tired. I think it’s the endurance aspect of tennis that causes this effect. I also get spaced out during the match if i eat or drink fruit or coffee beforehand. I can drink coffee after the match, but i cannot eat or drink fruits before or after a match. I think typically the body prefers starch for endurance.. but i don’t tolerate most starch.. so i rely on meat and low carb veggies the night before and day of a tennis match.
Also, i discard any leftover milk on the 4th day after opening. My body only likes fresh milk. Actually, I rarely discard it bc i always finish it on the 3rd day
The milk that works best for me is Kalona full-fat, vat-pasteurized, non-homogenized. I don’t like any other grocery store milk. And raw milk is hit and miss for me (but i’ve only tried it from one farm).

And i only eat curd (in the form of cottage cheese, with Kalamata olives and dill pickle) right before lunch. And only eat cheese as a late afternoon snack (typically after eating grapes).

 

[akgrrrl]

The timing of dairy makes all the difference for me. Drinking warm milk (98-99 degrees) 2 hours after dinner gives me a buffer. It’s delicious, helps me sleep better, gives me good energy the next day, honestly gives me a little buzz, and makes me feel like i have a great posture with no effort. I’ve gotten a few other milk sensitive people to try this approach, and they reported the same things on their own. Milk also has gotten me through various sick feelings and reactions.
I am an athlete and milk also helps me recover from workouts. I’m rarely sore or stiff. Sometimes i drink it in the morning before sports. I perform at my best this way, and notice i am at my most limber (although my body does prefer milk at night overall).
I drink it the night before boxing day.. however: i do not like it the night before a tennis day. It makes me too spaced out during the match.. but i feel fine before and after the match. I get spaced out about 6 games into the match, when my body starts to get a little tired. I think it’s the endurance aspect of tennis that causes this effect. I also get spaced out during the match if i eat or drink fruit or coffee beforehand. I can drink coffee after the match, but i cannot eat or drink fruits before or after a match. I think typically the body prefers starch for endurance.. but i don’t tolerate most starch.. so i rely on meat and low carb veggies the night before and day of a tennis match.
Also, i discard any leftover milk on the 4th day after opening. My body only likes fresh milk. Actually, I rarely discard it bc i always finish it on the 3rd day
The milk that works best for me is Kalona full-fat, vat-pasteurized, non-homogenized. I don’t like any other grocery store milk. And raw milk is hit and miss for me (but i’ve only tried it from one farm).

And i only eat curd (in the form of cottage cheese, with Kalamata olives and dill pickle) right before lunch. And only eat cheese as a late afternoon snack (typically after eating grapes).

That is a lovely testimony on method. And so I offer this suggest to you as an athlete (from a former athlete). Try your milk daytimes iced and a bit watered down, with a TB of genuine-from-a-tree grade B (or Robust) Maple syrup.
While I am lucky to have fresh raw goatmilk delivered weekly, I put it in a bestquality plastic water bottle (we have a great bottler here serving up glacier water by the case in 16ozs) dilute by at least a 4th, the maple, shake then freeze, leaving room for expansion. Most times it is either defrosting or only partially frozen and is thick and absolutely hydrating and delicious. Keeps it fresh longer!

 

[jmparret]

Dude my intuition tells me this is exactly what I need to do. How did you get rid of SIBO?

I used enteric coated peppermint oil gels from NOW. It only took a few days to clear but there is a lot of other work that need to be done. You have to repopulate your gut/intestine biome. Super Gut by William Davis is a good place to start. He has you making yogurts, which do work. Mine started with a thyroid problem (hyperthyroid in a very bad way). This caused low stomach acid. Do not take the antibiotics that doctor will give you, it is only 50% effective.
The yogurts you make are good to eat plain. Davis even has a yogurt recipe for clearing up the flu and stuff, start with something called Yakult.

 

[mosaic01]

I used enteric coated peppermint oil gels from NOW.

The Natural Factors product with Peppermint + Oregano also works wonders.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Been following this thread, and yes, I am an avid drinker of fine HEALTHY milk. Actually I just received a present of a bottle of Raw organic milk today. mmmm which we do get sometimes. But we usually buy non homogenized milk from a nearby small dairy the grocery store. Slow pasteurized methinks.. . But I totally agree with @akgrrrl that in the normal Store Bought Milk, the amount of chemicals the cows eat makes for a bad product. Especially in the USA. Likely allergy producing. Hello people!!! The food the animals eat that produce milk, or meat, affect greatly the people who eat those products. Yes it's a thing. I have spent years only eating wild caught meat and fish, and it is as clean as is possible in this day and age. In Oregon in the 80's, and then Alaska throughout the 90's and 2000s... . I feel lucky that the beef and lamb here where I live (Australia) is all grass fed only, and roaming free more or less. Anyhow.... back to the thread.

Most people cannot tolerate lots of food because literally their intestinal lining is compromised, and they have an allergic reaction as molecules of milk, or whatnot, as these get inside the bloodstream and the body produces antibodies to these 'foreign proteins'. Hence the Reaction....... In my ACU school clinic in 1991 I saw a client who was a young Vietnamese woman, who had terrible issues, and turned out she was having an allergic reaction to rice. This was because one of the Teacher/Clinic Supervisors was also a Naturopath doctor with experience. All because of lack of integrity of her intestinal wall. So blaming food for issues when there is an inherent weakness in the body is something to watch out for.

A few years ago I had an organic Camel milk source. Not so tasty, but what the hell. A bit salty. Supposedly good for you. ? I can't remember the taste of raw goats milk, but I did have a source back in the 80's in Oregon. Makes a great tasting pumpkin pie. Over.

 

[Kyle970]

Have been thinking of getting some...

Donkey milk has a long history of medicinal and cosmetic uses. Hippocrates reportedly used it as a treatment for arthritis, coughs, and wounds. Cleopatra is said to have maintained her soft, smooth skin with donkey milk baths (2Trusted Source).

It has antimicrobial properties and is used as a folk medicine treatment for infections, including whooping cough, as well as viruses in parts of Africa and India (2Trusted Source).

Compared with milk from other dairy animals like cows, goats, sheep, buffalo, and camels, donkey milk most closely resembles human breast milk. In fact, it was first used in the 19th century to feed orphaned infants (3).

 

[teds]

To look around at the failing health of almost all people, and then say, yeah people can’t tolerate dairy is just like… well dah.
Hearing a human being can’t tolerate dairy to me is like hearing an apple tree can’t tolerate soil. Like sure, maybe there is something wrong with the soil, some kind of mineral deficiency, some kind poor quality lack of organic matter… too dry, too wet, too sandy.
All things that change the soil quality.
But to say the tree can’t tolerate soil, well. That’s just nonsense.

Literally every dairy product is a unique specific product. Hundreds of cheese products made in thousands of different locations with different packaging from millions of animals raised in deferent ways.
Almost all milk I see has gums and fillers added in them that are well documented to cause problems.

I suspect that this is US based knowledge. In Australia the majority of processed milk doesn’t contain gums or fillers- we do have some with added vitamins but they aren’t the majority. The cheeses here are getting harder to find with animal rennet I have noticed. We can get raw milk here (a milk for pets) and very large majority of organic milk here is grass fed etc. I’m still trying to understand the dairy stuff that happens. Especially with hormonal stuff. I have lots of patients who do better without dairy and it’s the PCOS and skin/asthma people who fit this group. There’s definitely something inflammatory going on.

 

[Peatress]

Today was supposed to be the day I eliminate milk to see if my digestion improves. 6½ years of drinking at least one liter of milk a day, sometimes much more. Anyway, it started off ok then I noticed I missed my morning bowel movement. At the supermarket to buy fruit, I looked at all the unripe fruits and decided to head for the milk aisle. Came away with a few liters of milk. How is it possible that I've forgotten what life was like before milk? For people who don't drink milk what does your diet look like?

 

[AlaskaJono]

I suspect that this is US based knowledge. In Australia the majority of processed milk doesn’t contain gums or fillers- we do have some with added vitamins but they aren’t the majority. The cheeses here are getting harder to find with animal rennet I have noticed. We can get raw milk here (a milk for pets) and very large majority of organic milk here is grass fed etc. I’m still trying to understand the dairy stuff that happens. Especially with hormonal stuff. I have lots of patients who do better without dairy and it’s the PCOS and skin/asthma people who fit this group. There’s definitely something inflammatory going on.

In Queensland one could get milk for your skin/bathing milk. NOT for Drinking. winky wink.... . Or know a farmer. Here in Tasmania it is also not so easy to get. In fact I heard one story of a case where a woman milked a cow and gave it to school kids on their day field trip, and she got busted for it! It was outside of a small town about 8 years ago. At least all over the country one can get Non-homogenized but pasteurized milk. Also there is a micro filtered milk Made by Cow using cold high pressure. It is also very good (my gut feeling.....).

Anyhow, regarding ingredients, I would suggest that some percentage of milk issues people have is due to the chemical factor for the various sprays on the pastures. Both here in Aus and in the USA. Those kind of farmers an organic farmer friend in USA calls "Chemical Hogs".