Why Is Consuming Lot Of Milk Result To Fat Gain By Lot Of People?

Discussion in 'Dairy, Eggs' started by berk, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. berk

    berk Member

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    After I learnt that ray peat is a fan of milk becease of al the health benefits from it i was expecting a lot of GOMAD fans here, but I cant find one topic about it haha.

    Then I was searching how people react when they are consuming a lot of milk in there diet.
    I Found 99% of people (weightlifters) that have follows GOMAD are telling they have gain strength and WEIGHT. Most of this weight is FAT.
    If you read Ray’s milk articles you would’t expect this.
    Especially when you hear RP telling that starch are fattening and milk isnt, that calcium have a anti-obesity effect o and when people that or not consume dairy (like in the Slavic countries) were fat versus people that are consuming lot of dairy.
    Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths

    i know that if you consume more kcal than you burn its get stored as bodyfat, but al this negatieve experiences are from weightlifters so i guess i know what they are doing. (dont overboard with to much kcal)

    Also a article from Lyle mcdonald says:
    Milk consumption acutely increases muscle protein synthesis, leading to an improved net muscle protein balance. Furthermore, when post-exercise milk consumption is combined with resistance training (12 weeks minimum), greater increases in muscle hypertrophy and lean mass have been observed
    Milk The New Sports Drink? A Review


    Still a lot of people are complaining about constipation, skin problems, gastrointestinal problems and mostly FAT GAIN.
    I cant find some good experience story about muscle growth or getting leaner from consuming lot of milk.
    There are a lot of negatief story found on populair bb boards
    Search Results - Bodybuilding.com Forums
    reddit.com: search results - gomad
    Search Results for Query: gomad | Sherdog Forums | UFC, MMA & Boxing Discussion

    I wondering why this is.
     
  2. Inaut

    Inaut Member

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    I sound like a broken record but I think fixing the liver makes all the difference. My skin has recently cleared up and I drink a lot of milk... I think it’s partially due to red light I use on my body but also liver cleansing herb
     
  3. OP
    berk

    berk Member

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    Every-time someone mention "red light" i dont know where he is talking about and always think about A red-light district of prostitution in the Netherlands.
     
  4. GreekDemiGod

    GreekDemiGod Member

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    Dairy powerfully stimulates insulin / IGF-1
     
  5. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    Dairy contains opiate peptides in the casein fraction that increase prolactin and decrease dopamine. This can downregulate sex steroid production and also induce weight gain. Milk also can contain high levels of endogenous steroid hormones that might possibly effect sensitive individuals. However, I think the opiate effect is the more likely culprit.
     
  6. schultz

    schultz Member

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    From a calorie perspective, and not anything to do with the unique characteristics of milk, I would think it depends on the type of milk a person is drinking.

    3.25% GOMAD diet = 2,381 calories + 127g of fat and 7.6g of PUFA
    Skim GOMAD diet = 1,333 calories + 3.1g of fat and 0.1g of PUFA

    The fat will be stored for someone who is trying to "bulk" and consuming mixed macros.

    You could easily lose fat consuming the gallon of skim and a few extra low fat food items like orange juice.

    I think the important thing is the calcium : phosphorus ratio. It has been studied quite a bit and is considered to be pretty important, though I never really hear any mainstream nutrition people talk about it.

    In the paper I've linked to below they say, "Reduced calcium intake and increased phosphorus intake, which are implied in a low Ca:P ratio, is a subject of concern worldwide..." Funny, because the only person (other than pubmed papers) I've heard/seen address this is Ray.

    Milk is unique as it has high quality protein and a good calcium : phosphorus ratio. Leaves have a good ratio, but not if you want protein, and meat has good protein but not if you want a good calcium to phosphorus ratio. Combining meat and leaves might work, but you'd have to ensure you're eating enough cooked greens. Milk makes it simple.

    Association between obesity and calcium:phosphorus ratio in the habitual diets of adults in a city of Northeastern Brazil: an epidemiological study. - PubMed - NCBI
    "Therefore, higher Ca:P ratios contributed to a lower prevalence of central obesity."

    It is just an epidemiological study (I don't care for them all that much personally) but there are several other papers on pubmed that talk about calcium and fat loss as well as the importance of the calcium : phosphorus ratio. Generally, a ratio of 1 : 1 calcium to phosphorus or higher is considered ideal. Generic cows milk gives a ratio of 1.3 : 1 in favour of calcium. It's a pretty slick way to get 120g of protein as well as many other nutrients, while maintaining a good ratio of calcium to phosphorus.
     
  7. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    They mean light in the red spectrum aimed at their body. There are actually quite a few benefits from red and infrared light, just look up "red light therapy."
     
  8. GreekDemiGod

    GreekDemiGod Member

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    Whaat? Tell me this is not true.:(
    Would this explain low motivation from high dairy diets?
     
  9. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    I disagree with this and my experience is counter to this.

    I think the calories make a marginal difference.

    I dont think the fat content makes any difference, if anything dairy fat makes people leaner in my experience. I personally eat 80g of butter (plus 40g of tallow and 40g of macadmia nut oil) a day currently and am sitting at 10% bodyfat for over a year. I have averaged between 120-200g of fat a day for a few years now in conjunction with 250-400g of sugar per day. I have been lean the entire time and have only gotten leaner as time has progressed. I highly doubt saturated fats cause weight gain. I also highly doubt that sugar, especially from fruits and juice causes weight gain.

    I dont think mixing macros makes any difference. I eat and have seen people eat high sugar diets and high saturated fat diets with both sugar and fat in every meal and remain very lean (and muscular) for years.

    I cant speak to the calcium: phosphorous ratio, but I havent experienced it making much difference for me. I think the consumption of PUFA is more important for determining obesity than the calcium to phosphorous ratio. The ratio may just be a proxy for dairy and/ or leafy green consumption over garbage food consumption.

    I think the opiate and subsequent hormonal effect explains the symptomatology people experience when drinking milk quite well. Constipation, low motivation, brain fog, low libido, weight gain, gyno, acne, hairloss and sinus issues can be linked to elevated prolactin and the effects of opiates. I mean if you look at the side effect profile of oxycodone on wikipedia it lines up nicely, plus there are studies comparing milk beta-casomorphin to morphine.

    It's possible man. I tried to make dairy work for 2 years. Just made me fat, stuffed sinuses, constipated, zero libido, low motivation, bacne, and I even started to develop mild gyno (thats was the last straw lol). I removed dairy and went on a high fat, high sugar diet from fruits/ juice, with adequate animal protein mainly from red meat and seafood and I lost 20lbs of water weight from the milk in 2weeks or so. I just pissed it out. Drinking milk I was 200-210lbs (I looked soft, but I was very strong), no milk 175lbs (very lean and muscular with standing visible abs, still strong). My temps also improved when I dropped milk. Currently I sit at 175lbs about 10% bodyfat. The only problem with my current protocol is its hard to put on weight and I eat alot of food so it can be expensive.

    Btw I tried all types of dairy; A1, A2, goat milk, raw cow milk, raw goat milk, camel milk, various cheeses, various yogurts, various kefirs, all types of brands, grass fed, conventional, homogenized, non-homegenized, UHT, etc. Couldnt get it to work for me. I have to say though out of all the things I tried goat milk, especially raw goat milk was the least problematic. Cow milk wrecked me the worst.
     
  10. GreekDemiGod

    GreekDemiGod Member

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    Wow, I tick all those symptoms, mildly.
    Only time I removed dairy was briefly during my Carnivore Diet. When I was a Carnivore, eating dairy would be a depression trigger in me.

    On Peat, the only recognizable symptom I get from milk is flatulence.
    I suppose you went on high fat / high protein. What's your macro split? How's mental health? Doesn't high protein make one serotonin-dominant? How many grams of carbs are you eating?
     
  11. OP
    berk

    berk Member

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    is it me or are this two the opposite.
     
  12. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    In my experience, symptoms can often develop overtime unnoticed, or occur at different times after eating a food so it can be hard to pinpoint the relationship.

    I eat high fat, adequate protein, high sugar: 150g of fat, 300-400g sugar, 140g of protein. Mental health is on point, high motivation, high drive. I don't think so, I don't worry about amino acid ratios; experimenting with those things never made a difference for me (I've been playing around with Peat's concepts for 5 years or more now).



    Butter doesn't contain dairy protein, only dairy fat. The issue is in the dairy protein. It can contain hormones, that may bother sensitive individuals but I've been ok with it.
     
  13. Inaut

    Inaut Member

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    Serum prolactin level as a biological marker of severity in liver cirrhosis

    Fawzy M Khalil1, Mohamed A Elassal1, Ahmed M Hussein1, Mahmoud Rizk1, Mohamed A Awadein2, Eman G Behiry3, Mahmoud M Abd El-Fadil Kelany1
    1 Gastroenterology and Hepatology Unit, Department of Internal Medicine, Faculty of Medicine, Benha University, Benha, Egypt
    2 Department of Internal Medicine, MUST University, Giza, Egypt
    3 Department of Clinical and Chemical Pathology, Faculty of Medicine, Benha University, Benha, Egypt

    Date of Submission 19-Mar-2017
    Date of Acceptance 10-Apr-2017
    Date of Web Publication 20-Nov-2017

    Abstract

    Background Cirrhosis of the liver is a chronic disease that involves the whole organ. In liver cirrhosis, the gonadal axis is affected. Hyperprolactinemia is often present in these patients as well as hyperestrogenemia, both are responsible for the clinical characteristics of feminization.
    Patients and methods We investigated 50 patients with cirrhosis. The diagnosis of cirrhosis was based on biochemical evidence and clinical diagnosis including ascites or encephalopathy. Moreover, prognostic indices (Child–Pugh) and prolactin (PRL) levels are assessed.
    Results Mean age was 51.94±5.99. Mean Child–Pugh score was 9.16±3.16. Mean PRL level was 18.76±9.14 ng/ml. Patients with hepatic encephalopathy compared with patients without encephalopathy had significantly higher levels of PRL. PRL levels were also significantly related to ascites degree. Mean PRL levels were 13.67 versus 20.05 versus 21.6 ng/ml in patients with first, second, and third degree of ascites, respectively. In regression analysis, PRL level was significantly dependent on Child–Pugh score.
    Conclusion PRL level increases significantly with severity of liver disease particularly in patients with ascites and hepatic encephalopathy. High PRL level could therefore be considered as a negative prognostic marker of liver cirrhosis.


    I think milk and certain foods are blamed for causing elevated prolactin in humans but in my unsubstantiated mind, it's partially due to a liver not doing its job properly...... @CLASH knows his stuff and i'm a fan boy but really like milk so I look for my own reasons why it's ok to drink... I'm probably wrong but
     
  14. Nebula

    Nebula Member

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    Commercial dairy is a tainted product. I would agree liver function should be very good. Estrogen can be significant in any milk though and a healthy liver is required to make sure it excretes estrogen correctly.
    I wonder if the tendency for milk to cause fat gain and other issues is metabolism related. I never had a problem with milk when I was younger and in more peak metabolic health. Maybe it requires excellent stomach acid and enzyme levels to ensure it’s thoroughly broken down. Since it is a very alkaline ph food it’s going to require very good acid levels to fully breakdown.

    I also think most people are very magnesium and zinc deficient and high calcium intake might exacerbate mitochondrial dysfunction from a lack of these other minerals, especially when hypothyroid and the absorption/retention of these minerals is not good.
     
  15. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    I didn't mean to imply that milk is bad for everyone. I think that there is an individual tolerance to it. My roommate who has been following similar nutrition concepts to myself has been drinking milk and eating cheese for years with no issue. I can't tolerate it all, neither can my dad, nor my sister or even my new baby half sister who is 1 years old. I think that there may be individual variations in the degredation of protien and the specific peptides produced by the proteins. I also think there may be individual tolerances to specific compounds like opiates. I'm a fan of milk for sure, as long as the person can tolerate it.
     
  16. OP
    berk

    berk Member

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    i found this on a bb forum. Not sure he is correct.
     
  17. Nebula

    Nebula Member

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    I’ve just noticed myself that as I’ve gotten older and my metabolism has worsened that milk causes a lot of issues, when before it didn’t at all. I could consume high amounts and stay very lean with a good mood, now I can’t. The only thing I can think that has changed is probably poor magnesium and zinc levels from a long time with poor thyroid function which also led to poor digestion and gut flora problems. I hope to get back to a much more robust digestion and gut health, because I do enjoy consuming milk.
     
  18. Gone Peating

    Gone Peating Member

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    Peat has claimed that in someone with normal digestion the opioid peptides in milk would be digested without them causing opioid effects.

    But in someone with bad digestion, or someone who digests milk poorly, they could have those effects
     
  19. Amarsh213

    Amarsh213 Member

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    People who drink alot of cows milk get fat. Particularly low fat cows milk. This is straight protein water that signals growth of 1,000 lbs animals.
    [​IMG]

    4x+ the protein, less lactose, and inadequate vitamin A.
     
  20. boris

    boris Member

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    .....it's a mammalian thing.

    Although other species like to join the party, too.
     
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