How Can People Be Healthy Even When They Don't Eat A Healthy Diet?

[Amazoniac]

prenatal imprinting.

childhood environment

it takes time for the damage to accumulate.

 

[Dean]

Fewer and fewer people are able to get away with eating whatever they want. The biggest factor to me is the absolute corruption of our food supply and food production process. The deranged reverence we have for the profit motive as the highest good has turned us into Pavlovian dogs for poison. I mean look how saturated fats were demonized and replaced because you can't patent butter or grow coconuts in the developed world. Look at how much time and money you have to have in order to fill your diet with ethically and nutritionally healthy animal products. Can you really call the injected crap at Walmart or the pressed sludge at fast food places meat? I used to love ice cream as a comfort food, but I can't stomach it anymore. With all the cheap fillers, they all have a disgusting chemical, artificial aftertaste to me. Look at how inedible most fruit is because of how underripe it is when it's picked.

In my travels in the 3rd world, I'd catch myself feeling envious of their food choices. They eat what's available. It's fresh and it's real. They don't have to overthink it. They don't have to think about it at all. Of course, that's not the whole story. The food is cheap, but I saw plenty of people (and got to know a few) who have to spend far too much time thinking and worrying about money that day to be able to feed their kids that night. We know though, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that hunger is an issue of societal/structural will, not production scarcity.

We do this to ourselves. We truly pick poison out of sheer allegiance to a warped and perverse value system. Let us eat: crap!

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sure you can think of some examples of people who don't eat a healthy diet but still have better health somehow.

Some people would say that these healthy people have good genetics, but what are those genetics actually doing that is producing the good health?

Or, simply think of your own youthful health. I know for sure that I was not eating a healthy diet when I was younger but I had better health, energy, full head o' hair, etc.

It obviously wasn't diet that was the source of my good health, so what was? Is it just youthful hormones?

What is it about the youthful biological state that promotes health and vitality so robustly?

What is a healthy diet? There is none. The focus of Rays work is increasing the metabolic rate. So for some that may be a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. For others that may be a salad. Just because these foods are not optimal by the standards around here doesn't mean they can't improve metabolism. you could spend years following the "ray peat Diet" to a T and you could still see little to no improvement if you are in an extremely weak and depressed state. Meanwhile you could be vegan and thrive because you live a fufilling life and you believe you are eating the best diet in the world. When you are young you experience great health because you've only had a limited amount of time for damage to accumulate. Also you inherit metabolism from your mother so you may be more tolerant to insults to the body if your mother was in good health.

 

[halken]

Maybe later very bad diet will wear anyone out.

Well that's it. These so called healthy people who do not eat healthy might look fine on the outside but wear and tear (without change) is still wear and tear.

As per usual, everything must be accounted for. Everything.

Diet matters.

Psychology matters.

Community matters.

Creativity matters.

It's all about integrating yourself into the environment harmoniously.

Everything is regenerative.

Some of the longest living people have gone through hell and back and manage to live past the triple digits.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

I believe state of mind has lot to do with it

Ya they're probably not constantly stressing about the details - including diet. So they recover faster and have less stress.

I think that psychology can have an effect on health, but I don't think that mental state is the cause of declining health.

If being oblivious caused good health virtually everyone would have good health.

I think it's the other way around. Declining health causes stress and worry because people don't want their health to decline and they want to do what they can to reverse it.

In other words, if everyone was lean and fit and energetic and healthy, very few people would still want to research and implement the ideal diet. Probably the only people left would be those concerned about the ethical and environmental effects of certain diets.

I know if I wasn't trying to improve my health via diet, I would just eat whatever I wanted and not think about it. And I bet that would be true of most people.

Nope, worry and mental stress can easy (and often are) the originators of declining health, decision-making, and lives. How else would love, death, and passions cause such chaos?

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

Let me point out here that "healthy people eating unhealthy diets" is a "very Peat" concept. He talks about adaptability of various diets (i.e. eskimo) often.

JRMoney15's post above is right on the money. I'd like to hear more from you around here, my friend!

 

[schultz]

I think there is something to be said for enjoying life, enjoying food, not worrying about your diet, being easy going and stress free. I'm going to paraphrase this, but someone once asked Ray on some podcast if being nice and kind to people could improve metabolism or something along those lines. Ray said "yes, I think so" in such a way as to indicate he didn't really have proof but just believed it.

A lot of the people who visit this forum may have a long history of trying different restrictive diets where they need to avoid foods and potentially, therefore, certain social situations. In some ways the standard SAD diet may be better than some of the supposedly healthy and trendy diets. People who follow the SAD diet may follow their instincts to a degree whereas someone who is "informed" may go against their own instincts because they have "knowledge" that contradicts those instincts. Avoidance of sugar and salt is something that comes to mind.

I suppose the trick is to find a happy medium between being neurotic and being relaxed about things. (being at least a little bit neurotic may be a necessary evil in this day and age)

I hope that made sense.

 

[pboy]

there is no way. If someone isn't eating exactly what Ray Peat is, there is no way they can be happy. You even have to slick your hair back, or theres no chance. That's Ray peats secret, his hair is so cool it automatically generates dopamine and testosterone

 

[EIRE24]

I'm sure you can think of some examples of people who don't eat a healthy diet but still have better health somehow.

Some people would say that these healthy people have good genetics, but what are those genetics actually doing that is producing the good health?

Or, simply think of your own youthful health. I know for sure that I was not eating a healthy diet when I was younger but I had better health, energy, full head o' hair, etc.

It obviously wasn't diet that was the source of my good health, so what was? Is it just youthful hormones?

What is it about the youthful biological state that promotes health and vitality so robustly?

What is a healthy diet? There is none. The focus of Rays work is increasing the metabolic rate. So for some that may be a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. For others that may be a salad. Just because these foods are not optimal by the standards around here doesn't mean they can't improve metabolism. you could spend years following the "ray peat Diet" to a T and you could still see little to no improvement if you are in an extremely weak and depressed state. Meanwhile you could be vegan and thrive because you live a fufilling life and you believe you are eating the best diet in the world. When you are young you experience great health because you've only had a limited amount of time for damage to accumulate. Also you inherit metabolism from your mother so you may be more tolerant to insults to the body if your mother was in good health.

Spot on, what a statement! Take a bow

 

[Shredder2]

Who's healthy? The "anti-Orthorexia" crew set the standard for "good health" at very low levels.

 

[halken]

Your metabolism is a metaphysical motor.

 

[Peata]

What is a healthy diet? There is none. The focus of Rays work is increasing the metabolic rate. So for some that may be a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. For others that may be a salad. Just because these foods are not optimal by the standards around here doesn't mean they can't improve metabolism. you could spend years following the "ray peat Diet" to a T and you could still see little to no improvement if you are in an extremely weak and depressed state. Meanwhile you could be vegan and thrive because you live a fufilling life and you believe you are eating the best diet in the world. When you are young you experience great health because you've only had a limited amount of time for damage to accumulate. Also you inherit metabolism from your mother so you may be more tolerant to insults to the body if your mother was in good health.

 

[seeyeff]

What is a healthy diet? There is none.

Really? None?

Perhaps I need to clarify. When I say a "healthy diet" I mean that one that improves those factors we understand to be signs of good health like energy, libido, restful sleep, fertility, etc. and prevents those obviously bad conditions like apathy, anhedonia, sexual dysfunction, infertility, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, chronic pain, etc.

To be extra clear, I'm not defining a healthy diet in terms of what you consume — i.e. I'm not saying it's Peat, or vegan or WAPF or paleo or whatever — but by its affects on health and/or disease.

Meanwhile you could be vegan and thrive because you live a fufilling life and you believe you are eating the best diet in the world.

You don't think there is such a thing as a diet that promotes disease?

The food you eat doesn't matter. All that matters is your mental-emotional state.

So Veganism is just as good a diet as any other because as long as you believe in it and you are happy you will have good health?

That sounds like nonsense to me.

 

[Dutchie]

What is a healthy diet? There is none. The focus of Rays work is increasing the metabolic rate. So for some that may be a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. For others that may be a salad. Just because these foods are not optimal by the standards around here doesn't mean they can't improve metabolism. you could spend years following the "ray peat Diet" to a T and you could still see little to no improvement if you are in an extremely weak and depressed state. Meanwhile you could be vegan and thrive because you live a fufilling life and you believe you are eating the best diet in the world. When you are young you experience great health because you've only had a limited amount of time for damage to accumulate. Also you inherit metabolism from your mother so you may be more tolerant to insults to the body if your mother was in good health.

Actually,recently through Epigenetics they've discovered that you inherit metabolism (traits) from your mom AND dad. Your grandparents' are even a factor.

 

[halken]

Actually,recently through Epigenetics they've discovered that you inherit metabolism (traits) from your mom AND dad. Your grandparents' are even a factor.

It's inherently related to civilization. World War II has affected us all.

 

[Nicholas]

What is a healthy diet? There is none.

Really? None?

Perhaps I need to clarify. When I say a "healthy diet" I mean that one that improves those factors we understand to be signs of good health like energy, libido, restful sleep, fertility, etc. and prevents those obviously bad conditions like apathy, anhedonia, sexual dysfunction, infertility, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, chronic pain, etc.

To be extra clear, I'm not defining a healthy diet in terms of what you consume — i.e. I'm not saying it's Peat, or vegan or WAPF or paleo or whatever — but by its affects on health and/or disease.

Meanwhile you could be vegan and thrive because you live a fufilling life and you believe you are eating the best diet in the world.

You don't think there is such a thing as a diet that promotes disease?

The food you eat doesn't matter. All that matters is your mental-emotional state.

So Veganism is just as good a diet as any other because as long as you believe in it and you are happy you will have good health?

That sounds like nonsense to me.

there are complexities to everyone that we will never understand. the same goes for our own bodies. all we can endeavor to care for, though, is our own body. just because one desires to be healthy does not automatically make them unhealthy, lol. it's just a part of your story to desire healthiness - while it may not be for others. if you don't believe in your approach then yes, i think your health would suffer. but there are also people who believe in their approach and it doesn't work for them. i think what it boils down to is that we can't prove anything about vitality by looking at others and thinking we understand the first thing about what's going on inside their body or mind or genetics. we are absolutely no different than anyone else in that we have our own story that we are living out moment by moment, outside of our absolute control. So for JRMoney15 to say that there is no healthy diet is false. (yet all the approvals?) diet and lifestyle are inextricably linked and inextricably individual to every person. The goal shouldn't be so much a "healthy diet" as being "in health" (i.e. perceiving, thinking, acting).....because your body's desires evolve - and your health evolves - and your cells are doing different things at different times....can anyone really say that they are eating THE healthy diet for them at every moment? no. it's a constant discovery. having all this info. from Peat makes this process a bit easier but it does not solve the process. there are many who generate oxidative metabolism and have never heard of Ray Peat just as there are many who have read Ray Peat and struggle to generate oxidative metabolism.

 

[gretchen]

Youthful hormones, genetics, childhood circumstances, diet etc. are all important, but may not be the critical factors for good health. Peat says red light is important:
http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=h ... e-heard%2F

“Penetrating red light is possibly the fundamental anti-stress factor for all organisms. The chronic deficiency of such light is, I think, the best explanation for the deterioration which occurs with aging.”

I would say I experienced problems from the about the 7th grade on after I stopped going outside in the morning for recess. I became depressed pretty much instantly. I always thought it was because of milk, but now am not sure, since I also drank it when I was younger. I was a vegan in my 20s, and think the daily walks to and from school in the mornings kept me healthy. Later, after I left school, is when I noticed changes (in digestion especially).

I probably didn't spend much if any time outside in the morning from then till now. I've walked a lot on the late afternoon/evening in recent years, but may have undone the benefits due to heavy duty cell phone use, ie, excessive blue light exposure. All other things being equal, I think avoiding the sun in my 30s and now constant blue light and EMFs is what's wrecked my health. That and living at an altitude.

PUFA could still be a factor, but I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get away with eating like absolute crap if you nuked yourself with red light for a few hours every day, turned off your cell phone and wore blue light blocker glasses.

Poor health may also be karmic. If you're meant to improve your health, you will. If your karma is bad and you can't make improvements, you might be able to do so later if it improves. Either way, none of us lives here forever, so we have to make the best of our circumstances. And certainly the obsession with the physical body is it's own source of problems.

 

[Steffi]

check out the book "Why your survival instinct is killing you" in which there are experiments mentioned where just and only thinking influenced physical changes dramatically. Makes you wonder if maybe it doesn't even matter what we eat if only thinking would be perfect.

 

[XPlus]

epigentic deterioration can possibly be carried out from one generation to the next, leaving the next generation even weaker.

Interesting. I wonder what the mechanism for this could be...

So if a child develops in sub-optimal circumstances (nutrition, environment, etc.) then it will effectively put a permanent limit on healthiness? In other words, the child of a malnourished mother is screwed, no matter the potential of his DNA.

So even if the future has nothing but Genetically-Modified Humans, with no more congenital disease or genetic health limitations, it would still be necessary to have good nutrition to enable good health? The body can grow and be healthy unless it has the raw materials, like a plant that cannot grow without soil, air and sunshine.

There seems to be a contradiction here though: can a robust genetics overcome poor nutrition, or will poor nutrition hamper the robust genetics. I guess both are true?

There’s a nice definition for epigenetic from the dictionary:

“relating to or arising from non-genetic influences on gene expression”.

The “epigenetic” idea makes more sense biologically when I think of variations in health. Rather than thinking of genes as fixed units of inheritance, they could be thought of as to have health of their own and therefore are affected by the overall state of health of the organism in which they exist.

This means that someone, who’s inherited stressed genes from their parents, could possibly live up to his potential and possibly improve upon it by living in an environment that eliminates stressors and provide the necessary resources.

For example, If we’d to take few seeds from the same piece of fruit and plant them in different environments, we’ll find that in some places the seeds thrive, in some other places they grow weak, in others they grow diseased and some places they won’t even grow at all. When the seeds grow to fruitful plants, you’ll find their produce to have notable variability in color, intensity of taste, sweetness, aroma, size, texture and water content. Some of those new offsprings could even taste better than and have more robust characteristics compared the original fruit.

After reading Peat for a while, I believe the damage induced by stress (i.e. epigenetic deterioration) is reversible but I doubt hat anyone knows really to what extent. For example, I don’t think someone who’s been completely bald for a long time, can go from zero hair to a full head of hair. The follicles, if dead, will not be part of the bodies’ list of things to maintain - just like a lost limb.

 

[Makrosky]

I agree to some degree with oxidation_is_normal and halken. We aren't robots.

However it's difficult to be creative, socialize, calm, etc. if you're feeling sick constantly.

It's a vicious circle. Acting on any of the two sides will improve the circle always.

A simple course of antibiotics+NSAID for 3 days for a dental abscess brought me from not wanting to socialize much to wanting to socialize A LOT. For instance.