Eat your way to destruction

XPlus

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I come across these ideas and products, everyday, along with people who make a life quest of trying to convince me that sugar is the devil's feast (well, "everybody knows that") and cholesterol is a synonym for a heart blast. After all, it is all scientifically proven, documented, with consensus that such substances wreck havoc on your life system. In the same fashion show, there are a bunch of MDs, Phds who made a career claiming that Nitric oxide is going to put you in heat and studying your genetic disposition to some sort of generic cancers.


Never mind the rant, today I came across some this stuff.

http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CF ... 13-SDy.pdf

Some of the most "profound" ideas of this book
Figure 1. World Class Fitness in 100 Words.
• Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some
fruit, little starch, and no sugar. Keep intake to
levels that will support exercise but not body fat.
• Practice and train major lifts: Deadlift, clean,
squat, presses, C&J (clean and jerk), and snatch.
Similarly, master the basics of gymnastics:
pull-ups, dips, rope climb, push-ups, sit-ups,
presses to handstand, pirouettes, flips, splits, and
holds. Bike, run, swim, row, etc., hard and fast.
• Five or six days per week mix these elements in as
many combinations and patterns as creativity
will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts
short and intense.
• Regularly learn and play new sports.

https://progenexusa.com/shop/cocoon/
A world class product that utilized the miracle health benefits of tryptophan (along with whey)

I stopped for a minute this time and started thinking.
The amount of resources, time, effort, logic and reasoning put into junk is astonishingly amazing. It might not be wrong thinking that there's an ulterior motive behind such systematic persistence. The many books and products that are marketed as the pinnacle of science, and that are supposedly based on cutting edge research and the most functionally unconventional, they are the same books and products that lead to the mass destruction of health.

Now you've a bunch of hit-and-run polygamists who claim that Peat's quacks haven't helped them with their ED. Well, it maybe too early for me into Peat to come and trash others ideologies but after only one week of "Peating" I could tell where this is going. Almost 6 Months and I'm a different human being. Neither Paleo, Atkins, Mercola, Jillian Michaels, Mark Sisson nor Matt Stone have a system of sustained thoughts and ideas that is as consistent, elegant, comprehensive, historically-rich, and coherent as Peat's. Actually, to be fair to Peat, if I should take advice from anyone who opposes Peat, they should be at least as equally, knowledgeably and intellectually capable.
And for those who make a religion of Peat's ideas, they haven't understood what he's really about. So good luck finding that Peat diet.

"That culture is coherent and self-validating, and escape from it has to be equally systematic to be able to persist."
 

Xisca

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XPlus said:
I come across these ideas and products, everyday, along with people who make a life quest of trying to convince me that sugar is the devil's feast (well, "everybody knows that")

YES, that is why I always prepare arguments to reply!
- "How can we have a natural taste for sweet food if it is bad for us?"
- "Yes you are right, too much sugar is bad, but there is more sugar in starch than in sweet food."
Then I say that the best is to choose between starch and sugar, and that I made my choice.... And so I eat less sugar than a bread eater!
- "How much sugar can yu eat before reaching a "no more" point? Not that much. Same for fat. Or else try to eat some sugar cubes, or pure butter.... Then, can you easily reach this "no more" point with bread? ... you are more likely to over eat when you eat starch. Our instinct can regulate apetite much better with sugar and fat.

Then, I find it more difficult to explain the difference between the 2 sorts of fats. The % in mother's milk is a good help. Then I explain that saturated means stable, and unsaturated unstable, because carbons are not saturated with hydrogen. I also tell about food industry and paints, and the change for petrol products, and the new market then had to find...

Not so easy to see who is the culprit in food...
Actually, here people eat a lot of sugar, there is a high level of cancer, diabetis... So it looks like sugar is to be blamed. People used to be healthy and slim 30 years ago, as the new foods came late.
More over, spanish people use olive oil almost exclusively.
Cereals were traditional, also potatoes, and the island produces almonds....

So, their former diet promoted health though rich in starch and some PUFA... There might be starch and starch... and also a "burning life style", as people had a hard life and needed a lot of muscle use. So I guess that glucose was all burned.

Nowadays, they also eat ready made industrialized food, UHT cow milk, imported white flour for bread etc, and their animals have changed food! They eat OGM corn etc. They know that goats live half as long as before.... But they produce a more abundant fatter milk... I got confirmation that pig's fat that you can buy now is whiter and more liquid than before (it used to be more yellow and more solid 30 years ago).
 

tara

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XPlus said:
Neither Paleo, Atkins, Mercola, Jillian Michaels, Mark Sisson nor Matt Stone have a system of sustained thoughts and ideas that is as consistent, elegant, comprehensive, historically-rich, and coherent as Peat's.
...
And for those who make a religion of Peat's ideas, they haven't understood what he's really about. So good luck finding that Peat diet.

XPlus said:
"That culture is coherent and self-validating, and escape from it has to be equally systematic to be able to persist."
:D
 

narouz

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XPlus said:
And for those who make a religion of Peat's ideas, they haven't understood what he's really about. So good luck finding that Peat diet.

Those who like to "make a religion of Peat's ideas"
are amongst those who declare "There is no Peat diet!"
Like outlawing the naming of God or The Prophet.

Is it really so tough?

Peat Generalizing about Diet without Specific, Individual Context

1. “There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches.”-Ray Peat, “Glycemia, Starch, and Sugar in Context”

2. A daily intake of 100 grams of gelatin wouldn't seem unreasonable, and some people find that quantities in that range help to decrease fatigue. For a growing child, though, such a large amount of refined gelatin would tend to displace other important foods. The National Academy of Sciences recently reviewed the requirements for working adults (male and female soldiers, in particular), and suggested that 100 grams of balanced protein was needed for efficient work. For adults, a large part of that could be in the form of gelatin. –Ray Peat, “Gelatin, Stress, Longevity”

3. “I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption. In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements.”-Ray Peat, “Diabetes, Scleroderma, Oils and Hormones”

4. “It's better to take your protein during the day, sugar and fat in the evening. The powdered protein lacks most of the nutrients, so you probably need some fruit, eggs, and liver, for the other nutrients, including potassium and magnesium. .”-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

5. “Milk, cheese, and fruits provide a very good balance of nutrients. Fruits provide a significant amount of protein. Plain sugar is o.k. when the other nutrients are adequate. Roots, shoots, and tubers are, next to the fruits, a good carbohydrate source; potatoes are a source of good protein. Meat as the main protein can provide too much phosphorus in relation to calcium."-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

6. “Sugar helps the liver to make cholesterol, switching from starchy vegetables to sweet fruits will usually bring cholesterol levels up to normal. If the fat is mostly saturated, from milk, cheese, butter, beef, lamb or coconut oil, I think it's usually o.k. to get about 50% of the calories from fat, but since those natural fats typically contain around 2% polyunsaturated fats, I try to minimize my PUFA intake by having more fruit, and a little less fat, maybe 30 to 35%.”-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

7. “People can do well on high or low fat or carbohydrate, but when the carbohydrate is very low, some of the protein will be wasted as fuel, replacing the missing glucose.”-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

8. “A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress, but larger amounts of fruit juice, honey, or other sugars can protect against increased stress, and can reverse some of the established degenerative conditions..”-Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

9. Muscle meats (including the muscles of poultry and fish) contain large amounts of the amino acids that suppress the thyroid, and shouldn't be the only source of protein. It's a good idea to have a quart of milk (about 32 grams of protein) every day, besides a variety of other high quality proteins, including cheeses, eggs, shellfish, and potatoes. -Peat from http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.html

10. "Per calorie, sugar is less fattening than starch, partly because it stimulates less insulin, and, when it's used with a good diet, because it increases the activity of thyroid hormone.."-Ray Peat from http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

11. "Starch and glucose efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat."-Ray Peat, “Glycemia, Starch, and Sugar in Context”

12. “The starch-based diet, emphasizing grains, beans, nuts, and vegetables, has been promoted with a variety of justifications. When people are urged to reduce their fat and sugar consumption, they are told to eat more starch. Starch stimulates the appetite, promotes fat synthesis by stimulating insulin secretion, and sometimes increases the growth of bacteria that produce toxins..... Various studies have demonstrated that starch (composed of pure glucose) raises blood glucose more quickly than sucrose (half fructose, half glucose) does.”-Ray Peat, "Diabetes, Scleroderma, Oils and Hormones"
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/diabetes.shtml

13. "Protein deficiency creates an inflammatory state, and since stress causes tissue proteins to be destroyed and converted into sugars and fats, it's common to underestimate the amount of protein needed. One of the functions of sucrose in the diet is to reduce the production of cortisol, and so to spare protein."-From newsletter "Inflammation, Endotoxin, Estrogen, and Other Problems"

14. "Any carbohydrate...that is not sugar can potentially feed bacteria [in the intestines] that produce toxins and cause systemic stress."
-Dr. Ray Peat: Glycemia, Starch and SUGAR in Context!
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwesthe ... in-context
(Go to approximately the 29 minute mark of the interview.)
 

tara

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@ narouz, I agree you can generalise about diet according to the quotes you have so beautifully extracted for us. :) I think these generalisations are golden and can well be used for guidance.
You just can't know from the generalisations exactly what will work for a particular individual.
It is only when people start to get too specific about particular foods for everyone that I have a problem with it. That's what some people seem to try to do when they refer to 'the Peat Diet'. "I've been eating a strict Peat Diet for 2 mths and I keep getting sicker" doesn't make sense to me. To me, a Peat-inspired diet involves paying attention to what's happening and thinking about it and making course corrections - isn't that a key part of what Peat encourages? 'Perceive, think, act.' Not continuing to follow a rigid diet that isn't doing any good. That's the use of "the Peat Diet" that I object to.
 

narouz

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tara said:
@ narouz, I agree you can generalise about diet according to the quotes you have so beautifully extracted for us. :) I think these generalisations are golden and can well be used for guidance.
You just can't know from the generalisations exactly what will work for a particular individual.
It is only when people start to get too specific about particular foods for everyone that I have a problem with it. That's what some people seem to try to do when they refer to 'the Peat Diet'. "I've been eating a strict Peat Diet for 2 mths and I keep getting sicker" doesn't make sense to me. To me, a Peat-inspired diet involves paying attention to what's happening and thinking about it and making course corrections - isn't that a key part of what Peat encourages? 'Perceive, think, act.' Not continuing to follow a rigid diet that isn't doing any good. That's the use of "the Peat Diet" that I object to.

All very reasonable, tara,
except for the refusal to grant that it is still, simply, a diet.

di·et
ˈdīət/
noun
1.
the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.
"a vegetarian diet"


All reasonable diets are generally described
and have flexibility assumed
(a 90lb teen girl will not eat the same amount as a 275lb linebacker, etc).

There are many many many reasons people enjoy very very very much
announcing "There is no Peat diet!"
But one of the central ones is simply
that we would like to feel cooler and more mystical than everyone else.... :lol:
 
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Of course, we all know Ray Peat is all about esotericism... free articles what?? Lock them up in a cave in Romania I suggest.
 

uuy8778yyi

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mercola is the one I hate most

lives on salmon, raw kale (health foods apparently)

and whey shakes
 
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uuy8778yyi said:
whey shakes

Stone age blenders? Sounds paleo as hell.

 
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narouz

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tara said:
You just can't know from the generalisations exactly what will work for a particular individual.

Let me try it this way:
Because a diet does not describe a separate set of foods
specific to each individual on the planet,
this does not preclude it from being a diet.

Diets are ever and always general.
 
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narouz

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That wouldn't be a bad thread:
The Anti-Serotonin Diet.

(haidut has probably done it already. :lol: )
 

aquaman

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narouz said:
tara said:
You just can't know from the generalisations exactly what will work for a particular individual.

Let me try it this way:
Because a diet does not describe a separate set of foods
specific to each individual on the planet,
this does not preclude it from being a diet.

Diets are ever and always general.

Yes!

This obsession with "there is no Ray Peat diet" is weird and misplaced.
 
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The arguments go round and round... the logical foundations go swish swish swish...

 
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narouz

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Ya got your thousands of pages of Peat writings.
Hundreds of hours of detailed interviews.

90% of it is about FOOD.

You have general principles, ratios about food.
You have guidance about amounts.
You have specific foods explicitly praised and criticized.
You have Peat referring repeatedly to said foods by employing the word "diet" himself.

And through all of that there emerge consistent patterns and themes--
foods that a certain community tends to consistently eat.
They are clear as a bell.

That, my friends, is a diet.

di·et
ˈdīət/
noun
1. the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.
"a vegetarian diet"


It is time my friends.
Time to step out of the comforting fog of mysticism, cultishness, and hero worship,
and into the cleansing light of science. :)
 

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