Help Going From "night Owl" To "morning Person"?

Discussion in 'Insomnia, Sleep Issues' started by Cirion, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    See topic. most of my life I have struggled with being a "night owl". I have noticed during my healing process I need a LOT of sleep (like 11+ hours), but it's been difficult to get this sleep because I often can't get to sleep until 11+ PM, and work a day job. Only on weekends can I manage to get enough sleep to feel rested (because I can sleep in until like noon), but I know I have to change this and try to get my bedtime to like 7-8 PM if I can. I tried going to bed at like 8:30 last night but ended up just laying there for like 3 hrs before finally actually sleeping, so I still woke up tired.
     
  2. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    Immediately after you wake up in the AM, try doing a ton of dopamine-raising activities. Very bright sunlight for a long time (most important), cold shower, lots of coffee, big breakfast with lots of salt and protein, moderate exercise. Just hammer the dopamine as much as possible, and similarly, avoid anything stimulating at night. I think the issue that might cause people to become night owls is that too much of their dopamine spikes later in the day because of not having a highly energizing morning routine, which shifts their sleep-wake cycle.
     
  3. OP
    Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    I think the dopamine thing is a good point. My problem is I look forward to relaxing at the end of the day far more than I look forward to work (work is not awful, but I definitely prefer my personal time over work), and so this is where I get my "dopamine rush", making it difficult to want to go to sleep early. I think I should try going back to blue light blocking glasses after around 6-7 pm. I do have plenty of coffee in the morning and get some sugar/salt etc.
     
  4. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I use blue blocking glasses and find them really helpful. I like them so much that I've actually got 3 pair that I use for different purposes.
     
  5. OP
    Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Good deal. Yeah I really want to get this sleep nailed, because I know it's a LARGE part of the battle. I would tend to argue it is easily as important as nutrition, yet sleep is not as "sexy" to talk about as nutrition to most people. I believe there was a study done (have to dig it up) that shows that even just a single night of 1-2 hrs of sleep deprivation can literally tank your beneficial hormones by as much as 50%. Very shocking and eye opening to say the least. And that's acute sleep deprivation. I hate to think how much your beneficial hormones tank after chronic sleep deprivation. It's probably VERY significant (maybe 75% or even more), which would not surprise me at all.
     
  6. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

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    Not what you want to hear but I feel so much better ever since I accepted my night owl-ness. I tried a few times to make the change to become a morning person and always began to soon feel horrendous. I did get an earlier routine going for a very short period for a few days but eventually it naturally crept later then I was back where I started. Now I go to sleep late, wake up late, and don't see any problems with it really. As far back as I can remember in my life I stayed up late. I make sure to get as much light and exercise as I need during the day. I also have only ever worked jobs which allow me to start in the afternoon. I sleep 2-10 usually.
     
  7. OP
    Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    If I could work afternoons I could make being a night owl work, but since I don't, I unfortunately don't have that luxury. 8 hours of sleep is also not enough for me, so it is absolutely impossible to have a morning job and get more than 8 hrs of sleep staying up late.

    I have been a morning person briefly in the past, and my experience has been the opposite of yours - this is in fact when I was my healthiest, so I strive for that again. Can't really remember how I did it before though other than I was very militant about bedtimes, so I just have to have a strict bed-time policy and eventually I hope it will work out again. The trick is you have to get enough sleep in order to make it work, which is the hard part. Waking up early doesn't work when you stay up till 12 am haha and this is probably why most just give up. Nothing is worse than an alarm clock jarring you awake when you have only been asleep from 3 am to 7 am.

    I've also been a night owl most of my life, but I've also been unhealthy most of my life, at least for me, there is a connection between the two and my health. Never been healthy while staying up too late.

    I am glad it's working out for you though. I know when I retire I'll probably go back to sleeping in until noon lol.

    Another common denominator for me was working out in the morning. Working out at night makes it difficult to go to bed at a decent hour due to the stressor of it no doubt. Maybe I gotta start doing that again also.
     
  8. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    I think high Cortisol is the main issue
     
  9. syncronicity

    syncronicity Member

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    If you can’t fall asleep for three hours, you may likely be running on adrenaline/cortisol, and you fall asleep after your body has produced enough glucose (from your tissues) to relax and fall asleep. A fair amount of folks have sleep issues because they don’t have enough energy (i.e., don’t eat enough of the right foods) to maintain their metabolism and restore a resting state. Peat regularly states darkness is a stressor. One needs a healthy liver and muscle mass to store enough glycogen for ~8 hrs of fasting (until break-fast) overnight.
     
  10. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    It's your melatonin secretion cycle that's messed up.

    The pinneal gland is the organ in the body that accumulates the highest concentrations of fluoride of all tissues (recent finding). It also accumulates heavy metals.

    People that have been night owls all their lives, exactly like the people here, began finding a regular sleeping cycle by taking boron or iodine.

    Both of them are known to detox fluoride. Magnesium helps too in a lesser degree.
     
  11. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    I used to love sleeping in, like 12 pm would be great after waking up for school and work all week. But now I naturally wake up around 8-9 am and like to be asleep before midnight. I think alarm clocks are what throw us off and set an unnatural rhythm for the day. It is best to wake up after a full sleep cycle.

    Also sounds like your work is somewhat mundane and doesn't fullfil you so something to look into.
     
  12. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    Just wanted to mention that Peat strongly discourages iodine supplementation. Very interesting about how fluoride accumulates in the pineal gland though. It's info like this that sets off the conspiracy theorist in me.
     
  13. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    An unfortunate blonde moment in Peat's work.
     
  14. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    Peat has said supplementing 150 mcg/day of Iodine is safe, which is the US RDA. That's different than the massive doses advocated by some.
     
  15. skittles

    skittles Member

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    raypeatclips
    I'm kinda like this too - I'd like to be a morning person but I'm beginning to feel like it's just not gonna work. I find that if I'm waking up earlier, it takes me a lot longer to really 'get going'. I waste more time during the day and I end up going to sleep not having done much that day. I can only maintain an early-bird schedule for a few weeks at most before I give in and go back to being a night-owl, and I immediately become much more productive.
     
  16. jitsmonkey

    jitsmonkey Member

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    Sometimes I think its a matter of just embracing what works for you.
    I am an early bird.
    have me stay up 3 hours later than normal that will disrupt my following day
    have me get up 3 hours earlier than normal, I might need a nap that day but my day will be as good as any other.
    I know friends who are the exact opposite and I think its just a matter of embracing the reality of things
    if that's what works for you.
    Certainly nothing wrong with giving it a shot to get up earlier tho
     
  17. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I haven’t tried it but my friend who went to boot camp in the army said the best sleep he over got was there. He was so exhausted by the end of the day that the second he hit his pillow he fell asleep and the night passed by like a second, with the alarms sounding for him to get up. A typical schedule for them was something like physical labor all day until 8pm when they fell asleep and then woke up at 4am for the start of the day.

    You could try something not as drastic but essentially wake up at 6am or whenever you want to establish the wake up routine, force yourself to stay up all day no matter what, drinking coffee and eating well, and whenever you feel yourself getting tired, refuse the urge to nap and walk around or do an activity. Keep going all the way until the night and maybe you’ll be so exhausted you’ll just pass out early instead of staying up and get some solid sleep.

    Speaking of which I might try this out lol.
     
  18. Douglas Ek

    Douglas Ek Member

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    I think if you need 11 hours of sleep theres other problems than actualy sleeping. I remember that when I was unhealthy I did sleep that long but now when I am and feel great I dont need close to that. 8 hours is enough. If you could sort out why you sleep half your life away instead of 1/3 like most people you might feel more rested when waking up at 7-8 in the morning. I believe its probably cortisol, estrogen etc playing a role
     
  19. Ulysses

    Ulysses Member

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    I have five (5) 200 watt incandescent bulbs in my small bedroom. The lamps are plugged into remote-controlled electrical outlets. When my alarm goes off, the first thing I do is reach for the remote control and turn all those lights on. The result is so glorious and stimulating that within a matter of seconds, I am wide awake and do not want to go back to sleep. I have found this to be at least as important as my morning coffee when it comes to promoting wakefulness.

    Melatonin also helps, IN THE APPROPRIATE DOSE. A team from MIT found a good old U-shaped curve when they reviewed the effects from a range of different doses, with 300 MICROGRAMS being the optimal, and capable of restoring sleep in fifty year olds. This dose works really well for me, too, in spite of the horrific experiences I had with the doses you’ll find being sold at a typical drug store, which are usually in the range of 3-5 milligrams. It blows my mind that these doses are still the norm.

    Still, I only use melatonin ocassionally...

    I was a night owl my whole life, too, but in the last month I have been waking up at 5 every morning and going to bed at 8 every night. I hope I can keep this up, because I feel much better living this way.

    I was inspired to make the change, despite having tried and failed several times in the past, after reading some of Ray’s writings on the stressful nature of darkness. I realized that it’s best to minimize exposure to darkness, but the next best thing is to front load darkness at the beginning of the day, because in the morning there are so many different tools I can use to counteract its effects, tools which are not available to me in the evening, because they interfere with my sleep.
     
  20. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    I may steal this... with or without citation...
     
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