I Need 12-14 Hr Sleep A Night

[tara]

I think I need to just bite the bullet and have fats (saturated, in particular) because this is the only way I can reasonably fill up. I don't think really low fat is good for my metabolism / libido. Yesterday had 5000 calories almost all from carbs, and even with that much food, my libido was nearly non-existent. I think I do better on high fats. My libido was highest when I was on Keto / Very low carb back in the day, interestingly enough.

I don't know what exactly will work for you, but Peat doesn't usually recommend extremes of either high fat or low fat for most people - mixed meals seems to be good for a lot of people.

 

[Cirion]

I don't know what exactly will work for you, but Peat doesn't usually recommend extremes of either high fat or low fat for most people - mixed meals seems to be good for a lot of people.

I'm having a heck of a time on PEAT so far... have been trying playing with fat, with mixed results. I've had one day where I had a solid amount of fat (200g) and had a decent sex drive that day, and another where it's seemingly not there, so I end up getting rid of most of the fat to add in more carbs, which doesn't work either?

The good: Increasing my carbohydrate from sugar has increased my energy noticeably. Today I actually got out of bed without caffeine, that's definitely a note-worthy accomplishment for me. Thus, I believe Ray now about sugar... it's definitely needed for energy.

The bad: I need an obscene amount of sugar to get energy. We're talking upwards of 1000g a day. In addition, despite all of these calories, my sex drive seems rather dead... I don't understand how I can have energy but no sex drive? Am I running off of adrenaline or something? But, isn't the point of lots of carbs to avoid the use of adrenaline? What am I missing? Why do I need 5000+ calories to have energy, and even with this much energy, have no sex drive? My hormones are a disaster...

I need to eat soooo much, and now I fear getting fat, but at the same time, depriving myself if I'm still hungry at 5000 calories is probably a bad idea if hormone restoration is my goal, no?

 

[Captain_Coconut]

@Cirion Have you been getting enough of the b vitamins? That would be my first guess.

 

[Cirion]

@Cirion Have you been getting enough of the b vitamins? That would be my first guess.

Cronometer says I'm fine except a slight deficiency in B3, and I supplement with a multi so I should be OK...

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Cronometer says I'm fine except a slight deficiency in B3, and I supplement with a multi so I should be OK...

I had to mega-dose thiamine (1+ grams a day) for several days before my body started to efficiently process sugars and starch again. I had been experimenting with various b vitamins through food and supplementation, thiamine is what did it for me, I noticed a drastic uplifting effect within 30 minutes, it has been life changing for me, I must have been very deficient. I was vegan and a heavy drinker for many years, my stores had to have been wiped out - I don't think simply eating right was not enough to replenish the stores, supplementation really helped.

I had a similar breakthrough when I discovered the value of supplementing magnesium, many years ago. All I'm really saying is there are certain things one can be so deficient in - that mega-dosing sometimes is the only practical solution.

 

[tara]

I can't claim to know what's going on for you, but a couple more thoughts.

I'm having a heck of a time on PEAT so far... have been trying playing with fat, with mixed results. I've had one day where I had a solid amount of fat (200g) and had a decent sex drive that day, and another where it's seemingly not there, so I end up getting rid of most of the fat to add in more carbs, which doesn't work either?

Seems like big swings. And seems like you are expecting instant results from changes.
Choosing between a generous 200 g fat or very low fat seems to leave out more moderate ranges that work for most people.
How about making more gradual changes and observing trends over longer periods?

The good: Increasing my carbohydrate from sugar has increased my energy noticeably. Today I actually got out of bed without caffeine, that's definitely a note-worthy accomplishment for me. Thus, I believe Ray now about sugar... it's definitely needed for energy.

The bad: I need an obscene amount of sugar to get energy. We're talking upwards of 1000g a day. In addition, despite all of these calories, my sex drive seems rather dead... I don't understand how I can have energy but no sex drive? Am I running off of adrenaline or something? But, isn't the point of lots of carbs to avoid the use of adrenaline? What am I missing? Why do I need 5000+ calories to have energy, and even with this much energy, have no sex drive? My hormones are a disaster...

I need to eat soooo much, and now I fear getting fat, but at the same time, depriving myself if I'm still hungry at 5000 calories is probably a bad idea if hormone restoration is my goal, no?

Maybe there is something else needed to make good use of the sugar.
Captain Coconuts thoughts on liver and B-vits could be relevant. And/or some other vitamins and minerals. Are you having a little protein with your fuel?

Cronometer says I'm fine except a slight deficiency in B3, and I supplement with a multi so I should be OK...

Have you tried splitting it into 3-4 pieces and spreading them through the day? Some of the B-vits seems to be more effective in several doses a day.

I'm no expert, but my impression is that much larger than usual amounts of food from day to day can sometimes be helpful for some specific situations, such as when:
- engaging in exceptionally hard physical work or play
- growing fast
- recovering from significant physical trauma or injuries, eg breaking a leg, or surgery
- recovering from a significant energy deficit (post-famine/anorexia etc)
I don't know whether there are benefits to eating particularly large amounts in an ongoing way otherwise.

If eating more and more isn't satisfying or energising me, it often means there is something else I need.

(Personally, large amounts of sugar can leave me unsatisfied.)

 

[Cirion]

Good thoughts.

Trying to avoid relying on supplementation too much. I feel like that shouldn't be the first line of defense... intuitively, I think you can get most/all nutrition from correctly chosen foods... unless there's a serious underlying disease... that said, I'll keep those thoughts in mind...

I'm not sure why I'm needing such a large amount of calories. I've done some low-er calorie stints, but nothing absurdly low (nothing lower than around 2800 calories recently), so I'm not severely calorie deprived. That said, I've let my hypo-thyroid conditions fester for well over half a year, so even though I may have had an OK amount of calories, I still caused a lot of abuse to my body no doubt. As I mentioned earlier, the high sugar does seem to be pretty therapeutic for me, energy and mood wise. I don't think it's wise for me to lower the intake, or the brain fog & fatigue will return, and that's no good for my thyroid... at the same time, I don't want to get grossly fat... so it's kinda a conundrum lol. I guess I will keep the fats in though, maybe around 100g at least every day. My multivitamin is dosed such that you take it 3x a day, so that should take care of the splitting of them.

I usually eat protein with my carbs yes... except in the morning when I desperately need to get my energy up, when I pound straight OJ/honey to feel human again. I avoid protein in the morning because of the blood sugar drop, when my blood sugar is already low from the evening fast.

My temps and pulses usually seem pretty good lately, so there is that. My temperature usually ranges from 98-100, and pulse from 70-100 (wide range, though usually 70-80 now, I think the 100 was when my thyroid "overcompensated" early on when I started PEAT)

 

[Captain_Coconut]

You mentioned getting a lot of potassium, and asked if the ratio is important. I have read mixed things on this, some arguing extreme levels of potassium (e.g. 4:1) is better. I have found that I do well with a ratio around 2:1 to 1.5:1 (pottasium to sodium). If you are taking in 16 grams of potassium a day that sounds like too much potassium in general, nearing the point of hyperkalemia risk / potentially could be putting a strain on your kidneys. I played with getting higher potassium to sodium for several months and in the end saw no benefit - it left me feeling tired, for that period I was purposefully taking in 10 grams potassium to 3 grams sodium a day. It is a gross simplification, but I look at potassium like the breaks and sodium like the gas, you want them relatively balanced.

 

[Cirion]

You mentioned getting a lot of potassium, and asked if the ratio is important. I have read mixed things on this, some arguing extreme levels of potassium (e.g. 4:1) is better. I have found that I do well with a ratio around 2:1 to 1.5:1 (pottasium to sodium). If you are taking in 16 grams of potassium a day that sounds like too much potassium in general, nearing the point of hyperkalemia risk / potentially could be putting a strain on your kidneys. I played with getting higher potassium to sodium for several months and in the end saw no benefit - it left me feeling tired, for that period I was purposefully taking in 10 grams potassium to 3 grams sodium a day. It is a gross simplification, but I look at potassium like the breaks and sodium like the gas, you want them relatively balanced.

Yes, ever since that post I started salting everything (including OJ). I don't think my potassium:sodium ratio is a problem anymore. I also realized I was drinking too much water, and I have cut that down drastically. My potassium is still quite high (often 10 grams), but I think with the added salt to all my fruit & with OJ, it's probably not as much a big deal. It's hard NOT to get 10 grams of potassium it seems like, since all fruit and OJ is heavy in it! I suppose I can try adding even MORE salt, and see if that improves anything but I already do a lot now. I usually put around 1/4 tsp of salt with a glass of OJ (8-12 oz), and liberally apply salt to any fruit (wouldn't be able to tell you exact amount, but I'm not shy with it lol)

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Yes, ever since that post I started salting everything (including OJ). I don't think my potassium:sodium ratio is a problem anymore. I also realized I was drinking too much water, and I have cut that down drastically. My potassium is still quite high (often 10 grams), but I think with the added salt to all my fruit & with OJ, it's probably not as much a big deal. It's hard NOT to get 10 grams of potassium it seems like, since all fruit and OJ is heavy in it! I suppose I can try adding even MORE salt, and see if that improves anything but I already do a lot now. I usually put around 1/4 tsp of salt with a glass of OJ (8-12 oz), and liberally apply salt to any fruit (wouldn't be able to tell you exact amount, but I'm not shy with it lol)

If you are getting 10 grams potassium, you will want to shoot for at least 10 grams salt which is 2 teaspoons (4 grams sodium). Simply sprinkling it on amply may not be getting you high enough. If you want to really know how much you are getting, measure out 2 teaspoons for the day - then use that to season as you would, then see how much is left at the end of the day - then consider taking that amount daily in a supplement style. I shoot salt straight back every morning and night - because I know I simply don't get the amount I want to via seasoning.

 

[tara]

intuitively, I think you can get most/all nutrition from correctly chosen foods...

Then if you are eating a lot of carbs it might help to really make sure to regularly eat foods that are really nutrient dense in the micros. Eg. liver, oysters, greens (esp. broth), maybe brewers yeast (Peat has mentioned hot water extract as a way to leave out some of the more estrogenic bits) etc.

 

[Cirion]

Where are you guys even finding liver? I can't remember the last time I've seen any in my grocery stores.

Now I had the opposite problem last night - insomnia, couldn't get enough sleep.. lol, perhaps toning down the carbohydrates while upping fats to a moderate amount will hopefully fix that.

This morning I tried having just a few eggs (3) with OJ, and that made me kinda fatigued, though part of that fatigue is probably just lack of sleep, plus I was probably running on adrenaline + the meal probably blunted it. What's weird is that I felt kinda aroused, but sleepy at the same time? Is that a good sign? Conversely, before, I was energetic but no libido. My body makes no sense ! lol

I decided to quit caffeine entirely (no chocolate allowed either), and that probably has something to do with the fatigue as well. But I realize that caffeine is antagonistic to a healthy thyroid, imo, at least for me, due to the chronic cortisol/adrenaline elevation that caffeine causes. Sure it gives you a boost, but at the expense of long term thyroid health.

I'm just gonna take a power nap at my desk and hope no one notices......... lol

 

[dbh25]

I buy liver sausage or pate

 

[Cirion]

An update --

Last night, my first batch of sleep was the best in a while. Managed to sleep 5 hrs nonstop, ate something, slept again. Made the mistake of not just getting up after 3 more hr of sleep, and also the mistake of not eating anything before crashing another 2 hrs. Ended up waking up tired.

Lessons learned - just get up after at least 7 hrs of sleep, otherwise it's just too long without a big meal and stress responses will ensue (lots of fatigue waking up). Also, just keep staying the course with Peat way of eating, and go to bed soon after the last meal so that glucose stores are relatively full going to sleep. 5 hrs is a record for me without running out of glucose so that's progress.

As an aside, apparently I need tons of sugar to displace any protein and not get fatigued from the insulin response from the protein. Something like 200g of sugar for 8 oz of beef for example. Sheesh. Lol. Making my body into a sugar burner feels like a full time job

 

[Skeptikos]

Hi Cirion,

I found that my body responded extremely well to low dose Lithium and Zinc. I had to have been extremely deficient because the turn around I have seen now with Thiamine Lithium Zinc has been pretty breathtaking , I actually want to get out of bed now with just 7 hours of sleep.

I never tried lithium, thanks for the heads up, either I fix my unrefreshing sleep or I will die very soon.

 

[lampofred]

Even since starting Peat I need an INSANE amount of sleep to feel rested. *edit* I should clarify, this was an issue PRIOR to Peat, and not a new issue, so it's not caused by Peat'ing.

I just had 14 hrs of sleep yesterday... 9 pm - 11 am...

It's getting absurd, and making getting through the workweek challenging to say the least. I still manage to get upwards of 12 hr sleep on workweeks, but it basically means going straight to bed after work and I feel like I'm just sleeping my life away. It's also causing productivity issues at work, and I'm always quite late to work (luckily, I have the flexibility to do so) which annoys one of my older coworkers.

I am new to Peat, and it seems to still be an issue while Peat'ing as well. Been doing Peat for around 4 days now (so still kinda new).

Doing the standard, OJ,milk/cheese,eggs,honey,fruit, etc, sweet potatoes in the evening to keep my stomach full.

I'm guessing it's due to glucose storage problems? Because it does usually improve significantly upon loading up on sugar first thing in the morning.

How are your testosterone levels? Do you lift weights? Excess fat in relation to muscle can cause low testosterone via excess aromatization which can cause oversleeping, low energy, blood sugar problems, etc.

 

[methylenewhite]

The DSM-IV-TR defines Atypical Depression as a subtype of Major Depressive Disorder with Atypical Features, characterized by:

1. Mood reactivity (i.e., mood brightens in response to actual or potential positive events)
2. At least two of the following:
   • Significant weight gain or increase in appetite;
   • Hypersomnia (sleeping too much, as opposed to the insomnia present in melancholic depression);
   • Leaden paralysis (i.e., heavy, leaden feelings in arms or legs);
   • Long-standing pattern of interpersonal rejection sensitivity (not limited to episodes of mood disturbance) that results in significant social or occupational impairment.
3. Criteria are not met for With Melancholic Features or With Catatonic Features during the same episode.

 

[Cirion]

Based upon what I've learned/experience since making this thread, I now realize it is definitely due to sluggish metabolism / lack of GABA / excess of melatonin / etc. I still need a lot of sleep, but I think the sleep is slowly getting more restful as my waking temperatures are finally stabilizing at least 98F every morning. I can't believe I used to sleep 14 hrs haha. I still can sleep up to 10-12 though, so obviously I'm not quite there yet but better.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Based upon what I've learned/experience since making this thread, I now realize it is definitely due to sluggish metabolism / lack of GABA / excess of melatonin / etc. I still need a lot of sleep, but I think the sleep is slowly getting more restful as my waking temperatures are finally stabilizing at least 98F every morning. I can't believe I used to sleep 14 hrs haha. I still can sleep up to 10-12 though, so obviously I'm not quite there yet but better.

Any update cirion?