I Need 12-14 Hr Sleep A Night

[Vinero]

lol. This is insane.
Give this man some starch already.

 

[Luckytype]

Is that the anti-EMF case? I keep airplane mode for the radiation.

Its just the impact/waterproof one. I was thinking in terms of the microphone

 

[x-ray peat]

sounds like its the CPAP/sleep apnea issue. I had a friend who wore the CPAP mask and he was always complaining how tired he was. I dont know how anyone can sleep with a mask on all night. Wonder if there is some exercises you can do to strengthen your muscles in your throat. Are you overweight? that would be a cause too

 

[Captain_Coconut]

For the bloat, look in to: coconut oil, carrot salad, activated charcoal, glycine, lysine, vinegar, xylitol, grapefruit seed extract, castor oil. There is a chance you have an overgrowth of something in your gut which is working against your metabolism.

 

[Cirion]

sounds like its the CPAP/sleep apnea issue. I had a friend who wore the CPAP mask and he was always complaining how tired he was. I dont know how anyone can sleep with a mask on all night. Wonder if there is some exercises you can do to strengthen your muscles in your throat. Are you overweight? that would be a cause too

Maybe maybe not. I can say conclusively though, that:

Before I got CPAP, I did have a few periods in my life where I had good sleep and could feel refreshed on a "normal" amount of sleep. These were rare still, but did happen. I was having the chronic fatigue problems starting BEFORE I got CPAP though, and I would say it's neither worse nor better since getting CPAP, so can't really say that it's the CPAP really...

I have yet to have good rest since getting CPAP for the most part. That said, I'm mostly used to the mask (though it still annoys me, I can sleep with it now).

I'm not excessively overweight, at least in terms of being fat. In terms of BMI, you could say I'm overweight though. 200 lbs at 6'0" is "overweight" even though I have a decent muscle base. I think even muscle mass can contribute to apnea though.

Unfortunately, there is basically no cure for Apnea except for CPAP that works with 100% efficacy. Surgery (not really a fan of that) is an option that may or may not work, mouth braces (limited efficacy), or losing weight (I do have some fat to lose, which I'm really struggling with, because I refuse to harshly restrict calories again, I have been hoping the fat will come off naturally when I get this Peat'ing thing down... Restricting calories is what has screwed me over in the past, and since I already had cortisol problems, the last thing I need to do is put my body through this stressor...)

 

[dbh25]

Here's a screenshot.

What does an optimal sleep cycle look like?

 

[YourUniverse]

Maybe maybe not. I can say conclusively though, that:

Before I got CPAP, I did have a few periods in my life where I had good sleep and could feel refreshed on a "normal" amount of sleep. These were rare still, but did happen. I was having the chronic fatigue problems starting BEFORE I got CPAP though, and I would say it's neither worse nor better since getting CPAP, so can't really say that it's the CPAP really...

I have yet to have good rest since getting CPAP for the most part. That said, I'm mostly used to the mask (though it still annoys me, I can sleep with it now).

I'm not excessively overweight, at least in terms of being fat. In terms of BMI, you could say I'm overweight though. 200 lbs at 6'0" is "overweight" even though I have a decent muscle base. I think even muscle mass can contribute to apnea though.

Unfortunately, there is basically no cure for Apnea except for CPAP that works with 100% efficacy. Surgery (not really a fan of that) is an option that may or may not work, mouth braces (limited efficacy), or losing weight (I do have some fat to lose, which I'm really struggling with, because I refuse to harshly restrict calories again, I have been hoping the fat will come off naturally when I get this Peat'ing thing down... Restricting calories is what has screwed me over in the past, and since I already had cortisol problems, the last thing I need to do is put my body through this stressor...)

Few questions:
1) do you eat cheese or drink milk in the evening?
2) have you been making a carrot salad, with carrot, coconut oil, salt & vinegar? How do you feel after you eat it?

Stan Efferding says neck size plays a role in apnea BTW

Here's a screenshot.

This is more or less what my first nights look like, I have not been waking up feeling refreshed

 

[yerrag]

Sleep Cycle alarm clock

Check the quality of your sleep with this app, you could be sleeping a lot less than you think. I want to scream from the rooftops how good this app is, I don't know what kind of code wizardry they use but the microphone works so much better than any kind of accelerometer. The curves are perfectly in agreement with what I remember from my sleep, and not once has the app waked me up during deep sleep (it waits until you are in light sleep to sound the alarm clock).

I tried this app last night, on a 30 day trial. I thought I was sleeping soundly, but it shows me sleeping light all throughout. I had no deep sleep at all. Really? How would it know?

It cost $30/year. Worth it if it can lead me back to deep sleep mode. Just have to know how it knows I'm in deep sleep or not just on the basis of what the mic hears.

 

[raypeatclips]

I tried this app last night, on a 30 day trial. I thought I was sleeping soundly, but it shows me sleeping light all throughout. I had no deep sleep at all. Really? How would it know?

It cost $30/year. Worth it if it can lead me back to deep sleep mode. Just have to know how it knows I'm in deep sleep or not just on the basis of what the mic hears.

I guess it works out what state of sleep you are in by the amount you are moving around in bed, are people very still in deep sleep? There are flaws to this, that outside or background noise going on long enough could interfere with the graph.

As far as I know you don't need to spend $30 unless you want the extras which I'm not sure I'm bothered about having briefly looked over them.

 

[yerrag]

I guess it works out what state of sleep you are in by the amount you are moving around in bed, are people very still in deep sleep? There are flaws to this, that outside or background noise going on long enough could interfere with the graph.

As far as I know you don't need to spend $30 unless you want the extras which I'm not sure I'm bothered about having briefly looked over them.

I didn't know there is reduced feature free mode. I doubt my cat interfered with my sleep and the only noise is the hum of the AC.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Here's a screenshot.

It's not so bad, and there aren't signs of app malfunction. You can begin to see the peak at 4:30 and the one 90 minutes later and the third one as well. However ideally it looks something like this:

You can see 1:30, 3:00, 4:30 although it did seem that they woke up on that one.

 

[yerrag]

I tried this app last night, on a 30 day trial. I thought I was sleeping soundly, but it shows me sleeping light all throughout. I had no deep sleep at all. Really? How would it know?

It cost $30/year. Worth it if it can lead me back to deep sleep mode. Just have to know how it knows I'm in deep sleep or not just on the basis of what the mic hears.

It turns out I was on accelerometer mode. I was probably moving around too much, and that may have been interpreted (possibly correctly) as light sleep. I've switched to mic mode. I hope it shows better sleep quality (I think it will - my graph was really bad. It barely dipped below waking throughout). I thought I woke up refreshed, but it's very subjective so I hope the app can put some objectivity to it.

 

[Cirion]

Bah, I keep forgetting every night to use the app haha. I'm gonna try again to remember tonight :p

I'm gonna repost something I just posted in my new log though:


I've also had an epiphany - I think I know why I "need" 12 hrs of sleep, and why I still wake up tired even after that much.

As many of you know, a healthy person can store 7-8 hrs of glucose in the liver. Guess what, this coincides with the typical recommend nightly rest - 7-9 hrs. I don't think this is a coincidence. When the liver glucose is depleted, adrenaline spikes, which results in awakening, and helps you get ready for the day. However, in someone like myself, when your ability to store liver glucose is compromised, you can't make it 7-8 hrs without refueling the liver stores. Because of that, adrenaline spikes too early (as early as 1-4 hrs after going to bed), and wakes you up before sleeping through the night. Then, if you don't refuel the glucose after waking up, but instead to just go back to bed and ignore it, more adrenaline is released, which further increases cortisol. Even a healthy person can't usually go more than 8 hrs without food without adrenaline secretion. So going 12 hrs, if you aren't healthy is a very poor move. I wake up tired, because cortisol is sky high, and adrenaline low from being overworked the whole night. Low adrenaline + high cortisol = groggy and not wanting to get out of bed. So, what I'm going to do now, is force myself to get up after around 8 hrs of sleep, and hopefully, retrain my body. It'll suck the first day or two, but I think it'll work in the long run. I should also add, DO NOT USE ALARM CLOCKS (I never do anymore almost). Alarm clocks are an excellent way to trash your cortisol levels. I often wake every 3-4 hrs. So what I'll do, is after 8 hrs total in bed just get up, rather than go back to bed again, even if I feel groggy. I notice that as I load up on sugar+salt, it wakes me up, pretty much as much as caffeine does, probably because it gives my cortisol a chance to drop, and load up my liver glucose.

So getting some sugar+salt is probably vital every time you happen to wake up before you intend to (per Peat's suggestion)

The takeaway is I don't necessarily think there is such a thing as "too much sleep", that's the simplistic answer. I do, however, think there is such a thing as "too much fasting time", at least in a metabolically compromised individual, and thus a limit to your sleep *without eating a meal*.

A lot of the way the body works is finally starting to make sense to me - I did not realize that adrenaline, and cortisol are two different hormones (but related). I always was confused why cortisol results in fatigue when it's supposed to wake you up (it's not, that's what adrenaline does).

I remember one time when I basically did the "warrior diet" which was one meal a day. That REALLY messed me up lol... Basically I ran on pure adrenaline the entire day because my body was so stressed from fasting. You can see how that would wreak havoc on the endocrine system. I think that typical 8-16 Intermittent fasting is also a poor idea for the same reason, unless you're healthy, and even then, I'm dubious.

 

[lampofred]

I suspect that requiring too much sleep is a sign too much excitatory neurotransmission in your brain. The more dopamine, GABA, CO2, and progesterone you have in your brain, and the less serotonin, acetylcholine, glutamate, and estrogen, the less sleep you'll need because you'll just never get fatigued. But when you do sleep, the sleep will be extremely rejuvenating and deep.

 

[Cirion]

I suspect that requiring too much sleep is a sign too much excitatory neurotransmission in your brain. The more dopamine, GABA, CO2, and progesterone you have in your brain, and the less serotonin, acetylcholine, glutamate, and estrogen, the less sleep you'll need because you'll just never get fatigued. But when you do sleep, the sleep will be extremely rejuvenating and deep.

I don't know how all those interact, but it makes sense, and we're saying essentially the same thing I think. I am reducing/cutting out dairy to bring down the serotonin, and also try to avoid serotonin boosting fruits (like banana). Probably going to supplement chocolate to boost dopamine.

The liver glucose issue is my #1 issue, that will fix most of the other stuff, I believe. I have to eat stupid amounts of sugar every day to keep it full. I had almost 1000g carbs yesterday (yes 1,000) to finally feel pretty good/energized, hopefully, I don't have to do that forever, I literally was munching on fruit the whole day haha

 

[tara]

Even since starting Peat

Been doing Peat for around 4 days now (so still kinda new).

Doing the standard, OJ,milk/cheese,eggs,honey,fruit, etc, sweet potatoes in the evening to keep my stomach full.

Liver, oysters, maybe green broths?
Are these all foods that you used to eat before, and you don't have particular personal intolerances to?

It's worth noting too that I have moderate sleep apnea, but I wear a CPAP and my machine tracks Apnea events etc - ever since wearing CPAP, almost all apnea events have cleared (I have a machine that tracks a lot of data, I think I'm down to something like maybe 2 apnea events per hour instead of the 28-29 I had prior to CPAP) so I doubt that's the issue. It IS possible however that simple wearing the mask is a distraction (I do often have to fiddle with my stupid mask to make it comfortable), but I'm mostly used to it now after having worn it for months. I might switch to the over the nose only version instead of the over the whole face (which is what I use now) just because I think it'd be less invasive/annoying.

Have you read up on CO2 and hyperventilation? Do you breath with your mouth shut when you are awake? Have you ever tried doing it while asleep without the CPAP? I imagine you might want someone watching you for safety at least the first time you tried this, if you've been relying on the CPAP for a while.

I had 840g carbs yesterday... Literally the whole day I was constantly either drinking sugary drinks or munching on fruit. I would go a max of 30 minutes without eating or drinking something. I'm a mess I think lol. Basically need an IV machine to constantly pump me with sugar...

Have you had blood sugars tested? Was much of this in the form of refined sucrose (ie without minerals and vitamins)?
Personally, I did not find it satisfying to try to run on sugar as my only carbs - I'd keep craving more till I had some starchier food.
Not sure what your history is. There might be reasons why you'd want that much.

eating liver once a week

This can be good.

 

[tara]

Unfortunately, there is basically no cure for Apnea except for CPAP that works with 100% efficacy.

I think some people resolve it with mechanical support to keep their mouth shut while sleeping, and other tactics to address breathing patterns to reduce chronic hyperventilation. The open mouth tends to cause chronic hyperventilation, which typically worse at night, and can cause all sorts of trouble. No guarantee it would resolve your issue, but if you haven't tried it, it might be worth giving it a go. There are easy, relatively low-stress ways to try it out, using either a chin strap (which you may already have?) or a little tape.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I wake up tired, because cortisol is sky high, and adrenaline low from being overworked the whole night. Low adrenaline + high cortisol = groggy and not wanting to get out of bed.

I have no idea how we could test these but I've also been suspecting some mechanism like this, I also have this grogginess problem and "double hit sleep".

 

[X3CyO]

This^

 

[Cirion]

Liver, oysters, maybe green broths?
Are these all foods that you used to eat before, and you don't have particular personal intolerances to?


Have you read up on CO2 and hyperventilation? Do you breath with your mouth shut when you are awake? Have you ever tried doing it while asleep without the CPAP? I imagine you might want someone watching you for safety at least the first time you tried this, if you've been relying on the CPAP for a while.


Have you had blood sugars tested? Was much of this in the form of refined sucrose (ie without minerals and vitamins)?
Personally, I did not find it satisfying to try to run on sugar as my only carbs - I'd keep craving more till I had some starchier food.
Not sure what your history is. There might be reasons why you'd want that much.

This can be good.

Hi Tara -

I don't know about intolerances, I actually thought I had lactose intolerance prior to peat, but didn't have any issues with dairy other than the reaction to (what I suspect, at least) the high tryptophan content.

I don't know much about CO2/hyperventilation. Wearing CPAP has trained me to usually keep my mouth shut yes. I can sleep without my CPAP without danger of dying or anything, since my apnea is not extreme, but it's definitely ideal to wear it.

Last blood test I did, blood sugar was fine, maybe a little high. I have not tested since Peat'ing. I try to get most sugar from fruits / fruit juice.

I think I need to just bite the bullet and have fats (saturated, in particular) because this is the only way I can reasonably fill up. I don't think really low fat is good for my metabolism / libido. Yesterday had 5000 calories almost all from carbs, and even with that much food, my libido was nearly non-existent. I think I do better on high fats. My libido was highest when I was on Keto / Very low carb back in the day, interestingly enough.

I'm almost certain the reason I need to eat so much is because my liver glucose storage ability is garbage (seems to be the common theme among most people new to PEAT). I believe RP said that people new to this way of eating will need to eat higher fat at first, because saturated fats help protect the liver glucose levels. Later, when the liver glucose levels are normalized, you can get away with lower on the fats. That's my understanding at least. So I guess that's why most people new to PEAT can't start off with an 80/10/10 diet or something similar. It does seem like most successful PEAT'ers have anywhere from 30-60% calories from saturated fats, with only a handful successful with 80/10/10.

I do think 80/10/10 could be therapeutic if you come from a keto / very low carb background, but probably not the greatest permanent solution.