Chest "zaps" At Night. Cortisol? Adrenaline?

[Lecarpetron]

@walker_in_aus Incredible post! I somehow missed it originally. You're right...biochemical tinkering always helps temporarily, but I'd get used to any pharmaceutical and it would stop working. Addressing the big picture of stress did much more good. I have been mostly zap free for months (a bad night every now and then but much improved overall) and I think these are the factors:

- I fixed my body temperature. I monitored it ~4 times per day and if it wasn't where it was supposed to be I took a hot shower to raise it. After well over a year of this (be patient, Steve Richfield fans!), my temps now follow the diurnal cycle well without intervention. No longer freezing during the day and too hot at bedtime.
- I can now do moderate exercise (walking 3 miles, yoga) without a stress reaction. This was a slooowww progression. I had to start with walking 100 yards.
- My blood sugar seems way more stable now than it did when I was getting zapped all of the time. Now if I accidentally undereat one day, I can make it up the next day. Two years ago, a day of undereating would cause a massive stress reaction at bedtime.
- Sun exposure. I work from home and can sunbathe at lunch for a window of about 6 months out of the year.
- Palate expansion. My airway has doubled in volume over the last two years from wearing palate expanders, preventing hyperventilation/mouth breathing.
- While I'm still in my job as a consulting engineer, I've accepted that I might not be in it for the long haul. I enjoy engineering, but consulting can be very stressful with an "overachiever culture" encouraging of absurd hours.

@Mad how are you doing with this? I went through a similar phase of little cooking and no cleaning.

Proposed root causes of chest zaps in this thread are elevated serotonin, hyponatremia, hypoglycemia, and poor digestion. Ray mentioned digestion/intestinal irritation issues. I still wonder though...what ARE chest zaps? Some sort of muscle contraction? I wish I knew more about the connection between digestion and heart issues.

 

[Lecarpetron]

Update to this tale...shortly after I posted this, I started getting chest zaps again and having nights of falling asleep at 5am. Then chest zaps gave way to brain zaps. Then brain zaps progressed to severe brain zaps with high pain. By late October, I lost any and all sense of circadian rhythm regularly going 2+ days instead of 24 hours. I started having cognitive trouble, and during a stressful work trip, I managed to lose my jacket, my wedding ring, and my hotel key in the space of 24 hours.

I panicked and went straight to a GP when I got home. I begged her not to ignore me like every other doctor I've seen for the past 11 years on this issue. She put me on 300mg of gabapentin (an anti-convulsant) each night. Starting with the very first night, I haven't had a brain zap since. My circadian rhythm is still not great in the sense that I'm not having strong sleep drive every single night, but at least now a "bad" night is falling asleep at 1-2am instead of 5am or not at all.

I don't really know what the heck happened, why things went south so fast after I had been doing well But I'm grateful that the gabapentin is working and I don't have to fight tooth and nail for crumbs of sporadic progress like I had to for so long. I had avoided meds for a long time because of prior benzo experience...but then I got to the point where things couldn't possibly get any worse. I'm hoping to stay on gabapentin for <1 year. We shall see.

Oh, while at the GP I got some blood work done and I came back with TSH of 2.1, low iron, hypoglycemia, and high cholesterol. I found the low blood sugar interesting considering I had eaten lunch an hour before I went for my appointment.

 

[mrsuomi]

I suffered from similar symptoms. Is it just as you drift off to sleep, its like your body is trying to keep you awake with an electric shock. Do you feel like your body jumps as well off the bed . I got it during the day as well, with shocks shooting down my arms. I was suffering severe stress at the time.
My entire body felt like it was on hyper alert .

I think i read it was to do with parasympathetic nervous system, goes into overload , it eventually went away with lowering of stress.

wow, that's exactly what I got! So accurate, have you found a cure to this?
I think it has to do with stress, when I rest for a couple of days it goes away but when I workout it comes back...

 

[Vanset]

Experiencing the same issue. Well not sure if it's exactly the same but it's similar, typical hypnic jerks. I think it's adrenaline related. Started after prolonged period of stress. If I laze around it doesn't happen but even some mild physical exercise, even if its in the morning makes it come back. I think that the body somehow gets overstimulated and has trouble lowering stress hormones as day goes on so they're still elevated at night, accompanied by high heart rate. Anyone experiencing something similar?

 

[Vanset]

Things that make it worse:
- being very tired at bed time (kind of like some sick torture)
- this ties back to exercising - warming up too much. Late night shower, late night big meal, late night alcohol all seem to cause them. It seems as though my body has trouble cooling itself down.

All if this started after prolonged period of stress and insomnia. Took me a while to pay attention to these details and come to conclusions but I'm pretty sure it has to do with adrenaline, stress and body temperature.

Reviving this because from the research I have done it's still a mystery on other health forums or reddit and people usually just end up on some toxic sleep aids to get rid of this problem and there are other users on this for suffering from this problem.

Anyone else has experienced this?

 

[Vanset]

Exercise Induced Insomnia?

Hello all, I've got another thread here about sleeping difficulties, but that's mainly solved now! Thanks peaters! I've been having troubles with this for years. My current regimen: 5mg doxepin 3mg taurine 3 capsules ZMA And i sleep like 7-8 hours through the night! It's like a miracle...

raypeatforum.com

Related.

Also a quick Google search of 'hypnic jerks exercise insomnia reddit' brings up a lot of results. What's the cause of this?

 

[Vanset]

Why Can’t I Sleep After a Hard Workout or Race?

Discover why you can't sleep after a hard workout or race. Explore the factors behind post-exercise insomnia and learn practical solutions to improve your sleep quality.

trainright.com

Here’s a scenario a ton of athletes experience, but few talk about: The night after finishing a big endurance competition or a long and strenuous workout, you lie awake in bed or toss and turn despite being thoroughly exhausted. Your sleeplessness may be compounded by feeling like you are radiating heat or you can feel/hear your heartbeat. And even if you are able to get to sleep initially, you struggle to stay asleep and fail to have a restful night. What gives? How can an exhausting event leave you sleepless?

Pretty much this + hypnic jerks.

 

[Vanset]

@Chad_Catholic have u tried stopping exercise and meds for a few nights?

 

[Kayaker]

@Chad_Catholic have u tried stopping exercise and meds for a few nights?

He's gone. It's dysautonomia from neurohypometabolism.

 

[Chad_Catholic]

Dysautonomia from neurohypometabolism definitely sounds like what it is. Seems like my brain just is not working at full force like it used to and I wonder if a lack of a stimulating environment is a part of the problem

 

[Vanset]

well if you find something that helps then it would be nice if u shared it, i'll do the same. like i said, so far i know that exercise (especially neat bedtime), overheating with food, hot water etc., alcohol and stimulants like nicotine and caffeine cause it for sure. have even seen a report of a guy who said that sex caused it for him, makes sense since it's both stimulating and raises body temperature and it's more likely to happen near bedtime. i wouldn't be surpsised if even masturbation exacerbated the problem.

i would rather not ingest toxic garbage, but if i have to i will

also ever since that period of high stress and insomnia i can always feel me heart beating. it feels stronger and more forceful and pulse seems to be elevated 24/7, between 90-110.

 

[Chad_Catholic]

well if you find something that helps then it would be nice if u shared it, i'll do the same. like i said, so far i know that exercise (especially neat bedtime), overheating with food, hot water etc., alcohol and stimulants like nicotine and caffeine cause it for sure. have even seen a report of a guy who said that sex caused it for him, makes sense since it's both stimulating and raises body temperature and it's more likely to happen near bedtime. i wouldn't be surpsised if even masturbation exacerbated the problem.

i would rather not ingest toxic garbage, but if i have to i will

also ever since that period of high stress and insomnia i can always feel me heart beating. it feels stronger and more forceful and pulse seems to be elevated 24/7, between 90-110.

I'm suffering from asthma now too which came out of nowhere, and something similar is happening where right before falling asleep I wake up in a panic and gasp for air. I masturbated a lot in my teens but basically cut it out in my twenties. I'm 24 now. I'm like 99% sure that the neurological zaps I was suffering before this new asthma thing were caused by the chronic lack of sugar from the keto and fasting diet. I'm looking into a thiamine megadose and also thyroid

 

[Vanset]

I'm suffering from asthma now too which came out of nowhere, and something similar is happening where right before falling asleep I wake up in a panic and gasp for air. I masturbated a lot in my teens but basically cut it out in my twenties. I'm 24 now. I'm like 99% sure that the neurological zaps I was suffering before this new asthma thing were caused by the chronic lack of sugar from the keto and fasting diet. I'm looking into a thiamine megadose and also thyroid

So youre no longer experiencing the hypnic jerks but now wake up with panic gasping for air? As you're falling asleep do you get like a sensation of falling down or tripping in a sort of a short dream and that wakes you up?

 

[Chad_Catholic]

So youre no longer experiencing the hypnic jerks but now wake up with panic gasping for air? As you're falling asleep do you get like a sensation of falling down or tripping in a sort of a short dream and that wakes you up?

I'm not sure if I'm still getting the hypnic jerks because I'm dealing with the gasping for air thing, but it's probably still there. And no, I just start drifting off into dreamland, and almost immediately I get a little jerk that snaps me out of my imagination and into self-awareness.

 

[Vanset]

I'm not sure if I'm still getting the hypnic jerks because I'm dealing with the gasping for air thing, but it's probably still there. And no, I just start drifting off into dreamland, and almost immediately I get a little jerk that snaps me out of my imagination and into self-awareness.

Hi. How are you doing? Have your sleep problems gotten better? I have pretty much zoned in on what it is exactly. It's an overstimulated sympathetic nervous system which can results from chronic stress, like overexercising or any kind of psychological stress. Hypnic jerks are just one symptom and not everyone has it. It's not recognized in general practice, but doctors that are specialized in sports physiology or fatigue disorders know about it very well. I'm afraid the damage is permanent to an extent and it can take years to rehabilitate with what is knows as GET (graded exercise therapy) and dropping any kind of strenous exercise like cardio or weightlifting. I guess how long a person takes to recover depends on how long their nervous system was tortured for. I have seen a few people on this forum suffering from this, but I'm not gonna quote them because I don't think they post anymore anyway.

I have found this thread on a forum with a lot of people describing the same thing basically, with some variety in symptoms. Some people have it so severe that a slow paced walk gives them insomnia and they can only sleep and not experience, for example, hypnic jerks if they sit on their **** all day at home and don't do anything. Scary stuff. You're pretty much disabled.

Unusual exercise-induced insomnia

TL;DR: I have exercise-induced insomnia for which no one has been able to explain or provide a solution. <p&...

patient.info

What I have noticed almost everyone has in common is:
- Exercise induces insomnia via inability to fall asleep (hypnic jerks, overheating, rapid pulse etc.) and wake ups, sometimes with elevated body temperature as well and often racing thoughts.
- Heat plays a major role as well. Anything that warms you up too much during the day, and especially close to bedtime, like a hot shower/meal can induce insomnia and/or hypnic jerks.
- Developing hypersensitivity to new substances like caffeine, nicotine, alcohol and various supplements. Things you could easily 'handle' before.
- Fatigue, brain fog and all that ***t, obviously.

My advice would be to have a sex hormone panel and iron panel done (hemoglobin, serum iron etc.). Something like a cortisol curve would be good as well. It's all a part of CFS.

 

[Vanset]

I'm suffering from asthma now too which came out of nowhere, and something similar is happening where right before falling asleep I wake up in a panic and gasp for air. I masturbated a lot in my teens but basically cut it out in my twenties. I'm 24 now. I'm like 99% sure that the neurological zaps I was suffering before this new asthma thing were caused by the chronic lack of sugar from the keto and fasting diet. I'm looking into a thiamine megadose and also thyroid

“Elite athletes are generally considered to have “good genes,” and exercise is commonly said to promote good health, so a new orientation is needed to accommodate the fact that “elite” athletes, winter or summer athletes, including participants in the Olympics, have a high incidence of asthma — roughly three times higher than the general population." -Ray Peat

"It turns out that exercise induces the signs and symptoms of asthma, not only in “asthmatics,” but in normal people too." -Ray Peat

For your case specifically, from the man himself. Again it's all chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and exercise intolerance with exercise induced insomnia.

 

[Mad]

Hey @Lecarpetron any zap updates? Sorry I missed your tag years ago asking for an update haha. It’s been so long that it’s hard to remember, but I think the bag breathing really helped me and then eventually I got pregnant a couple times, got on synthroid, didn’t have any issues with zaps. My acne had even gone away and I lost most of the weight I had gained “peating”.
Last summer I lost my job which was incredibly stressful (and this was following a few years of more incredible stress…working full time at home while taking care of an infant full time…then building a house during Covid…then getting pregnant again unexpectedly…. You get it, I have experienced immense amounts of stress). I started having terrible insomnia with the job loss and since then have been back on the forum searching for answers… realizing my thyroid had crept back to a bad place (I was off thyroid meds)…acne returning. After maybe 8 months or so of insomnia the zaps returned for me. About a month ago I finally got my thyroid to a more stable place and have slept better (not out of the woods but not bad insomnia and zaps every single night). I hadn’t zapped in maybe a few weeks and just started exercising and trying to reduce some calories last week to get this frustrating weight gain off and they have come back. So frustrating, sometimes it feels like the option is to be overweight or have health issues. It’s hard to resolve both at the same time.
I’m trying to connect zaps with what I’ve experienced and with all the theories that have been thrown around here for the cause of zaps. General stress/over tiredness/hypoglycemia/maybe low thyroid all seem plausible to me. I certainly think adrenaline and cortisol have been very high after many months of no sleep. The fact that exercise and lowered calories caused them immediately is pretty telling. I am also on progesterone again as of this spring which correlates pretty closely to when the zaps started back for me…I had always suspected progesterone as playing a role in my zaps. I just don’t know what to think but I’ll try to update if I make any progress.