Chest "zaps" At Night. Cortisol? Adrenaline?

[Hurricane07]

@Mad the Co2 (bag breathing) sounds like it could be a likely cause, I know when I do the bag breathing it calms me down a lot. I also forget to do it. Last night I drank coke in the evening, I didn't get so much the zaps but I was very unsettled (heart beating hard, general feeling of restlessness, restless legs kind of feeling) so in that regard I think that is linked to seratonin/histamine. I have been taking cypro for the last week but I think I need to up the dose, I don't want to become dependant on them either but I think it's worth a shot to up try a larger dose.

@raypeatclips vitamin D could be a possible link as it is also winter here and due to being busy and my job being predominantly indoors haven't got much sun exposure at all and am only using my red/infrared light for approx 15 minutes after work.

The actual stressor that I mentioned (working partnership failure) is gone now, I've moved on from that but perhaps the damage was done and now I'm left to deal with the aftermath of it. The only thing that seems tonstress me is the zaps themselves and almost anticipating them (a vicious cycle itself) it is true though I'm no longer afraid of them so the fear of something terrible happening is not there.

My diet is pretty much 100% peat and on point, the night I stayed at my friends place I ate wheat and drank beer so to me that seems to rule out endotoxins as the cause. Of course that may be a separate issue but I am testing a period of zero starch and muscle meat to see how that goes.

So possibly a combo of low vit d and high seratonin/histamine related to estrogen that was caused from all that stress, combined with higher than I have been used to EMF levels in my building.

What is a good vit d supp?

I have an order of protest e on its way, hopefully this helps with estrogen symptoms.

I don't feel I'm particularly hypothyroid, actually when I think about it, apart from these 'zaps' and the feeling of restlessness that I sometimes get at night I generally feel pretty good. It's not like I can't sleep, I am getting sleep, once I am asleep its fine itbis just the falling asleep stage that seems to be malfunctioning.

 

[InChristAlone]

I was going to mention CO2/hyperventilation especially since hearing that bag breathing is helping people. I think taping my mouth shut really helps night wakings or stressful wakings. I still wake up sometimes but go back to sleep pretty easily. Also the cypro.

 

[Hurricane07]

Yeah I'm gonna go hard on that and see if it helps.

I wonder if just going on a 2 week holiday to a sunny place would set things back in order. Just warm weather, sun, zero stress and not thinking about my health. I think half the issue is from overloading my brain with info about how to be healthy. It becomes a stressor in and of itself. I almost preferred when I didn't really care too much about my health (obviously that is short term thinking, the old 'we're all gonna die anyway might as well enjoy yourself). I guess that's all good until something goes very wrong.

 

[raypeatclips]

@Hurricane07 I think a lot of vitamin d supps are pretty similar and would be okay. I've heard Peat say he uses Carlson d3 and I use the Carlson d3 drops topically and not noticed any issues.

I remembered an email exchange I had with Peat a couple of months ago about anti histamines. He suggested getting my vitamin d levels into range and suspected I wouldn't feel the need for an anti histamine once I was no longer deficient so he believes a vitamin d deficiency could cause issues with histamine that wouldn't be there if my D levels were adequate.

 

[Mad]

Very interesting @raypeatclips . The power of sunshine! It actually was around the beginning of summer that my zaps stopped and I was actively working to get sunshine every day if possible. I'm curious to see if I notice any relapse this winter.
I feel ya @Hurricane07 . I've really been thinking just the past few days how a big part of why I don't cook anymore is because the things I used to cook aren't perfectly Peaty so then I'm like well might as well not cook at all.... And then my husband ends up bringing home fast food and we eat that and end up worse off. I used to cook all the time and I haven't cooked in 8 months. So I've just been reflecting on how I'd love to be back at that place where I actually feel healthy and whole. Ever since learning about my hypothyroidism, I've felt broken, sick, no energy, no motivation, hopelessness. I don't cook, I barely clean, I'm not as social. I'm in a better place now than I was 8 months ago, but I still used to feel so healthy and carefree. So I've been considering dropping some of the restrictions and focusing more on just getting adequate protein and sugar, and seeing if I can start enjoying cooking and some of the other things that I used to enjoy. Perhaps the mental and emotional healing could do me more good than any physical healing could.

 

[Hurricane07]

@raypeatclips For real I think this may be a break through. I'm not gonna break out the party balloons yet but now that I think about it everything points to vitamin d deficiency. My Zaps have coincided with the beginning of winter and a very stressful period, I was basically getting up when it was dark, driving to work whilst the sun was rising, working inside almost all day and not having enough time have lunch in the sun (when it was sunny) then driving back home or to do extra hrs on a project, indoors. I must've went at least a month without getting any real sun exposure. Only 10-15 min of red/IR light with my handheld combo mini. More or less a vampire. Yesterday I was working outside in a courtyard and during lunch i slept with my shirt off in the sun, I felt like i was plugged into the source (kind of is really), i haven't felt that good for sometime, like i was getting legit rest and recharge. I bought myself some cenovilD3 and took about 8,000iu last night and definitely didn't get the zaps as hard, still very mildly but I'm guessing it will take some time to properly replenish my vitamin d levels as they have been way too low for some time. When I saw that mentioned on this thread, then spoke to a friend yday who has been doing some Jack Kruse homework and getting his daily sun in it clicked in my mind, of course, the sun!

Like I said i'm not breaking out the bubbly yet but i'm fairly confident this is the cause of these wretched zaps.

I wonder if Everyone else on this thread was suffering these zaps through the darker months? @Lecarpetron @Janelle525 ?

@Mad Yeah it's whole new menu to learn, but there are some very delicious Peaty meals to make, It was only for lack of time I was eating fast food in the past few months. It has a domino effect and we almost become addicted to the crap that makes us feel crap. Why does it have to taste so damn good?! And why don't more places use coconut oil? It's almost impossible to eat out and avoid pufa.

 

[raypeatclips]

@Hurricane07 I wonder if vitamin d deficiency is the cause of many people on this forums problems.

Red lights are good for stress but remember they do nothing for vit d production.

It might be interesting for you to get a vitamin d test to get a measure of where you are at now, Dan Wich has a page on the cheapest vitamin d tests if your doctor won't provide one.

Vitamin D: how to test without a doctor - SelfTestable

 

[lvysaur]

Chest zaps at night. Cortisol? Adrenaline?

Mike Pence putting the electrodes in?

 

[Hurricane07]

@raypeatclips It's free here in Aus. I have a list of the relevant tests I need to get and plan to get that done this week. I have a test from late last year which showed my SE vitamin d levels at 77. It was on the low end of optimal and that was in the warmer months so I can only imagine what they'd be now after 2 months of winter and hardly seeing any sun at all. I'm Supplementing with D3 as of yday. Is it worth taking large doses for a few days then lowering it when I feel things normalise? Not sure on how it actually works. I have A,k2 and consume lots of dairy as well as mg oil spray and epsom salts for mg so would I need to up them doses too?

 

[raypeatclips]

@raypeatclips It's free here in Aus. I have a list of the relevant tests I need to get and plan to get that done this week. I have a test from late last year which showed my SE vitamin d levels at 77. It was on the low end of optimal and that was in the warmer months so I can only imagine what they'd be now after 2 months of winter and hardly seeing any sun at all. I'm Supplementing with D3 as of yday. Is it worth taking large doses for a few days then lowering it when I feel things normalise? Not sure on how it actually works. I have A,k2 and consume lots of dairy as well as mg oil spray and epsom salts for mg so would I need to up them doses too?

Can you get any tests you request for free or do you have to go to a doctor and explain why you want them and they ultimately decide?

Yeah calcium is another big one with vitamin d to pay attention to. With the doses of all the other things though calcium, A, K and magnesium, I've no idea. Make sure you have a decent amount of each of them and if something does feel right then lower and change doses?

 

[Hurricane07]

Can you get any tests you request for free or do you have to go to a doctor and explain why you want them and they ultimately decide?

I would have to go the doc first and let him know what i wanna see. It should be fine.

 

[Lecarpetron]

@raypeatclips No vitamin D test yet, but that wouldn't have been high on my list because until my big move a year ago, I lived near Miami and got plenty of sun. Now I still live in the south and am good about going outside for sun exposure. Plus, I'm religious about Estroban. But I wonder if something besides D deficiency could cause histamine problems. For me, nearly any anti-histamine helps with zaps, not just cypro. I'm using Unisom at the moment because like I mentioned before, cypro annihilates my temps (yeah, I know this points to other problems).

I'm intrigued by the idea of histamine deriving from stressful food in the small intestine. I haven't been able to do a consistent gluten free test yet due to travel, but I'm finally home for a while so now I can. Have any other zappers tried a gluten free regimen?

Since I first started this thread, I've come to view my mood/energy problem a bit differently. I had previously expressed frustration with having zero energy during the day, but posts by @DaveFoster have convinced me that this indicates I'm on the right track. After three decades of living on stress hormones, it seems cutting them off could and should make you feel wiped out for a while.

@Janelle525 I think sleep apnea can also be a factor. I haven't had any zaps lately, and I'm now 9 months into wearing palate expanders that I am certain have helped prevent hyperventilation. I've written about this in other threads, but oral posture may be something to consider for zappers who are known snorers.

 

[DaveFoster]

@raypeatclips No vitamin D test yet, but that wouldn't have been high on my list because until my big move a year ago, I lived near Miami and got plenty of sun. Now I still live in the south and am good about going outside for sun exposure. Plus, I'm religious about Estroban. But I wonder if something besides D deficiency could cause histamine problems. For me, nearly any anti-histamine helps with zaps, not just cypro. I'm using Unisom at the moment because like I mentioned before, cypro annihilates my temps (yeah, I know this points to other problems).

I'm intrigued by the idea of histamine deriving from stressful food in the small intestine. I haven't been able to do a consistent gluten free test yet due to travel, but I'm finally home for a while so now I can. Have any other zappers tried a gluten free regimen?

Since I first started this thread, I've come to view my mood/energy problem a bit differently. I had previously expressed frustration with having zero energy during the day, but posts by @DaveFoster have convinced me that this indicates I'm on the right track. After three decades of living on stress hormones, it seems cutting them off could and should make you feel wiped out for a while.

@Janelle525 I think sleep apnea can also be a factor. I haven't had any zaps lately, and I'm now 9 months into wearing palate expanders that I am certain have helped prevent hyperventilation. I've written about this in other threads, but oral posture may be something to consider for zappers who are known snorers.

I had these brain zaps last night after taking progesterone. I needed about half a quart of OJ to stop them.

You can restore metabolic efficiency in a few hours, but it takes longer for your body to adjust to the change. A lot of this depends on age and health of the intestine.

 

[Mad]

I had these brain zaps last night after taking progesterone. I needed about half a quart of OJ to stop them.

Interesting that you mention progesterone. I was thinking I was the only one who found any relation to progesterone and zaps.

Have you ever had other progesterone experiences with no zaps, or any zap experiences with no progesterone?

 

[DaveFoster]

Interesting that you mention progesterone. I was thinking I was the only one who found any relation to progesterone and zaps.

Have you ever had other progesterone experiences with no zaps, or any zap experiences with no progesterone?

Yeah: both of those. The zaps might be due to hyponatremia with elevated serotonin and aldosterone.

 

[LoryEl]

Hi everyone. Any progress on this?
Wanted to share some of my tests and small tricks. I suffer from insomnia ever since i was a kid. Peating made it a bit better in the begining; i have been Peating for the last 2 years. in the last few months it is as you describe: high pulse (100) and zaps and although i feel sleepy i have trouble falling asleep.
So my findings:
-supplimenting with salt makes it worst especially at bed time
- coconut oil before bedtime is better
- aspirin is worst. Vit K is worst. Vit e is better. Progesterone in high amonths may work but the next day my liver is not great.
- a cup of milk before bedtime is better.
- i am taking methalyne blue but without any influence on sleep ( same if i take it regularly or not at all for weeks)
- coffe after 6pm makes it worst
- decreasing thyromix for a day or two is a bit better but not for long. Same with increasing it
-calcium no influence
-magnesium is a bit better
- b vitamnins no influence
And my best hack ever: selenium!!! I find that if i can not go to sleep and take a pill of selenium i will easilly fall asleep in about 30 min to 1 h; this seems to decreese the pulse

Otherwise i have tried anything under the sun and more. Most failed “tests” give me even panic atacks when i am trying to fall asleep.

I also figured that as a chronical fatigue person i think peating gives me a lot more “brain” energy so instead of trying o fall asleep which really frustrates me when i can not get to sleep, i am trying to invest some of this time into reading scientific papers which at some point will put me off to sleep:)))

I hope it helps. Try the selenium. I think that’s gonna work.

Let me know if it helped.

 

[raypeatclips]

I don't have the chest zaps at night. It came at a very high stress point in my life and was also trying to go no starch, so perhaps I was underfed on glucose at the time. I haven't thought about this issue in months. I sometimes have issues sleeping if I don't eat enough calories, or if I haven't done some exercise during the day, such as walking. Other than that, things are okay.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Firstly, you are not alone! This is a really common problem. I have had this nearly my whole life but the last 5 years have been the worst. Have lots of advice for you!

Been Peating <6 months, so I guess I shouldn't experience miracles yet.

I live in an apartment building with Wifi, but I have been sleeping on a grounded earthing mat for about a year. I expected the earthing mat to be *the* answer when I first bought it, but so far...meh.

I really hope the zaps depart soon and leave me to wallow in the lower-grade misery of Regular Insomnia.

I don't know if anyone has pointed out but grounding in a high EMF zone can sometimes mean you become the conductor, rather than being protected...

My zaps include a somewhat elevated heart rate (90-100 bpm). I can't remember where I first saw someone posit that the zaps are related to too much serotonin...I know it's on an SSRI forum but I can't find the post at the moment.

It's so hard to troubleshoot this, isn't it?! If it's a dietary problem, is it related to number of calories? Macros? Wrong sugar/starch ratio? Too much liquid? Meal frequency? Is it vitamin deficiency? Mineral deficiency? Amino acid imbalance? Too little exercise, too much exercise, overbreathing, EMFs, job stress, red light deficiency? If fixing diet/lifestyle isn't enough...where the heck do you start with supps? The most effective one depends on your gut status, liver status, thyroid status, PUFA status, iron status, and of course hormonal status. If something doesn't trigger improvement...is it a problem with supply, with absorption, with communication, or with something else altogether mucking up the works - for example, some supps don't work if you have really low cholesterol. Once you identify a problem, you then take shot after shot in the dark to find the right supplement. For example if you have gut problems, do you try charcoal, carrot salad, bamboo, antibiotics, cascara, gluten avoidance, digestive enzymes, etc? With each supp, you need to give it time, plus fiddle with dose and frequency. It's all guesswork because it's near impossible to get a doctor to do blood work if they can't directly observe your problem (which is the case with insomnia. It is hard to describe bad insomnia to people...they all say "man I know what ya mean, just last Thursday I tossed and turned until the ghastly hour of midnight!"). I feel like I could spend a lifetime just playing around with, say, quinones alone. How do you experiment such that you achieve some measure of victory before you're dead? Sigh...tangent over.

@mujuro I would describe the zaps as hypnic jerk times a hundred, and in the brain/heart instead of muscles.

This is an extremely stressful post to read, and trying to sit there and pinpoint the exact issue will only make you stress more. I would lie there and run over the list of things for me to try after searching this forum, and it definately made it worse!

I've wondered too why the zaps come and go in cycles of a few days each. One factor I can tie to it is body temperature. When I have a few days in a row of daytime temps in the tank (<96.5) with normal nighttime temp (97.8), I can count on sleep trouble. Getting the temps up is easier said than done though, I react to something (T3, caffeine, red light) a few times and then temp suddenly drops to the original lower level. Seeing this clear cause-and-effect with temps and insomnia does help with the psychological stress because at least it's not a mystery, I know exactly what's going on...I just haven't figured out how to permanently fix it.

Try to view it as a generalised stress problem and not a tiny puzzle piece you have to fight to find. You will find a million things that might work for a while, but stress will always come back!

Good idea. Here it is...this will be a long post, sorry!

- I haven't been able to correlate the zaps with relationship tension yet, just with psychological stress over other stuff...but I am definitely sad/hopeless when it happens. Not sure which comes first, hopelessness or zaps.
- No bathroom needed for the zaps.
- The first time I started getting the zaps, I had just moved 1000 miles. It was a move I was happy about and really wanted to make, but I guess it was still stressful? For this past round of zaps, I was stressed about work, but once again I'm not sure which came first, I could have started hating work because of the exhaustion. Can't think of any supplement changes. I would definitely recommend cypro. I can't detect any diet sensitivities at all, which is frustrating.
- I no longer exercise at all, except lifting weights a few times a month for 10 minutes. At this point, more time has passed since I stopped running (3 years) than the duration for whihc I actually did long distance running! But after all this time, walking to the mailbox makes my temperature drop to the low 96's, instantly no matter how hot outside.
- I struggle to find joy in life. I am so tired that I am losing the ability to get even the basic things done, let alone bonus/fun stuff. The more exhausted I get, I stop paying bills on time, have no energy to cook or clean. I stopped traveling, which is something I used to love, because I got tired of spending thousands of dollars to experience insomnia in exotic locales when I can do it for free at home. Feels like a vicious cycle...the more tired I get, the less I do fun stuff, which in turn makes me more hopeless and sleep worse.
- YES, higher physical exhaustion leads to zaps. I think the physical exhaustion just translates to pure stress for me right now instead of sleep drive.
- And yes, I am very, very sensitive to noise/light during the zap times. My toothbrush could fall off the vanity and when it hits the floor, a bomb might as well have gone off.

And now, for an update. I've been zap free for a week! I wanted to try some serotonin/estrogen/cortisol sledgehammer. I used what I had in the house to start, which has been cypro (2-4 mg at night), T3 (32 mcg throughout day), and progest-e (probably 100-200 mg). I know that neither cypro nor progest-e work without good thyroid function, yet this was the first time I tried thyroid with either of them. I used to isolate the major supps so I could better determine their impact, with the result that none of them did anything. For example, cypro without thyroid got rid of the zaps, but lowered my daytime body temp to low 96's no matter what I ate. So far with this cocktail, my temps are pretty good as long as I have something to eat, even a sip of juice or milk, once per hour.

I have naltrexone coming in the mail. I have famotidine but haven't needed to try it yet. Still looking for diamox. I think working on CO2 will help as well, as I've noticed over the years that I get zero sleep, I mean absolutely none, when I am >9000 ft. Thanks to those of you who suggested these things, I hadn't seriously thought about CO2 before.

I'm also looking for clonidine, which I'd like to have on hand for emergencies.

You are running on empty which is why the more you try the less it works - just stressing yourself out! Definately adrenal problems. It's such a shi$teee vicous cycle!

Update: zaps tonight.

It's not surprising - I'm headed into the last day of a 4 day conference. I had to wake up at 3:30 am for my flight the first day, I haven't left the hotel/seen sunlight in 48 hours, and have been spending 12 straight hours a day sitting in a freezing room in meetings where I have to be "on" and socializing the whole time. This included a stressful and very long presentation I had to give. No control over food...PUFA city, no milk or oj. Only a few opportunities per day to put progest-e on my gums, usually I would do it once per hour.

I hope someday I'm stressproof enough to get through a week like this without falling apart. My teeth are clenched and I feel like I have restless leg syndrome in my entire body.

I have so much sympathy for you! The last bout of this I had was six months - I got myself so stressed about it that I actually just couldn't fall asleep at all, went from benzos to weed to blacking out at work. My advice/2 bobs worth:

1. Remove the panic from the situation as much as you can. I know it's extremely terrifying and concerning but terriyfing yourself by stressing about it makes it worse.
2. Look at big picture stress rather than trying to experiment with tiny biochemical tweaks, it's a black hole you can fall into trying to dose yourself with stuff.
2. Take time off work. I know it's hard, but you cannot operate in a stressful work environment and recover from this. You will eventually be forced to leave as you slowly go batshit crazy from lack of sleep, or crash your car driving to the office. So do it now. Life is too short to suffer. I took two months unpaid leave off and within 1 week my sleep was better. Once you've had a few weeks of good sleep, then you have a clearer head and you can methodically look into solutions such as all the ones listed here.
3. Read FuckPortionalControl's blog about insomnia. It saved my life.
4. Cortisol is a huge issue and taking some supplements can lower it, but if your body is stuck in fight or flight mode it will eventually come back. My list of helpful stuff to supress at night and get a good sleep:
- Warm Milk and Sugar
- Horseradish (inactivates endotoxin lowering body's load of stresses)
- Phosphadytil Serine - Sunflower based not soy based. It re-sensitises your brain/adrenal glands to cortisol somehow and stops the excessive production. Haven't looked into it much but it's working this week for me!
- Hypnotherapy - you gotta calm that parasympathetic nerve system down, man. It's out of control! It wakes you up at night because through years of stress around bed time, it now associates going to sleep with danger!

I hope this might be helpful because I really nearly gave up on life because of this issue. It is manageable and curable, but even after I fixed it I had a bad few months of stress and it has popped back up. Stress is stupid!

 

[raypeatclips]

Had a chamomile tea an hour or so before bed the other night and it made me very sleepy but experienced the first chest zap I have had for maybe over a year. Just once, and within 5 minutes I was asleep deeply and slept 8 hours without waking, but thought it was strange.

 

[tca300]

Gas, constipation and bowel inflammation can cause heart issues too. Just food for thought.