Waking Up Too Hot Then Chills Later

[Tourist]

still trying to get a grasp on what's affecting my sleep. Last night until 4 am I was too warm and had to keep the blankets off me. Got up getting more juice ( finished what I had set out) and ate the cheese on my night stand but no sleep. The entire night tossing, turning it sucked. Then I turn cold getting chills--can someone help me understand what's going on and how to help correct this?

 

[HDD]

still trying to get a grasp on what's affecting my sleep. Last night until 4 am I was too warm and had to keep the blankets off me. Got up getting more juice ( finished what I had set out) and ate the cheese on my night stand but no sleep. The entire night tossing, turning it sucked. Then I turn cold getting chills--can someone help me understand what's going on and how to help correct this?

Do you use progesterone? Aspirin? Here is a bit from an interview but the whole interview is good. In the beginning of the interview he discusses estrogen and what the body is doing when you get the hot flashes.

So, Dr. Peat, I wanna cover some things that we can recommend to people to decrease hot flashes, whether you’re a male or a female.

RP: Sugar, carbohydrates in general, but especially fruit. Gelatin is the protein that’s best, because it doesn't make any serotonin. Salty foods help to stabilize your blood sugar and lower the stress systems.

HD2: And there's also some herbs that can help to work on these different systems. Nettle root blocks aromatase enzymes that increase estrogen. Vitex blocks prolactin, which increases estrogen. Aspirin..

RP: Aspirin and caffeine: aspirin blocks aromatase and caffeine stimulates progesterone production.

Hot Flashes, Night Sweats, The Relationship To Stress, KMUD Herb Doctors , 2012

 

[HDD]

You also might find these articles helpful:

Hot flashes, energy, and aging

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

 

[beachbum]

You also might find these articles helpful:

Hot flashes, energy, and aging

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

Hi all,

I just read hot flashes, energy and age, well it confirms what I thought about myself. Yesterday I forgot my progesterone at hone and didn't even take my morning dose which lead to back night sweats or I guess hot flashes not sure the dif at night, even when I take naps I sweat like a New York waiter. So my point is I need my progesterone cream from morning to night. I need to address other ways to reduce estrogen or raise progesterone other than my cream. Im thinking if I should us an aromatase inhibitor. As of now I use close to a minimum of 500mg a day of progesterone just to help me function. I have crappy sleep and feel this is number one problem for health.

 

[Tourist]

Great articles-thanks. I was assuming the heat was brought on by cortisol so it didn't dawn On me could be menopausal--I thought there was always intense sweating involved?

Do u know of creme progesterone is considered as beneficial as oral w/ vit e? I have the creme but stopped using it as I didn't think it did anything--maybe I need to use a lot more ??

You also might find these articles helpful:

Hot flashes, energy, and aging

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

 

[beachbum]

Great articles-thanks. I was assuming the heat was brought on by cortisol so it didn't dawn On me could be menopausal--I thought there was always intense sweating involved?

Do u know of creme progesterone is considered as beneficial as oral w/ vit e? I have the creme but stopped using it as I didn't think it did anything--maybe I need to use a lot more ??

The reason I use the progesterone cream from elsewhere is because I can get a higher percentage (10%) per dose without going broke. One pump gives me 100mgs of progesterone and 25mg of vit e. That is why I need other ways to reduce estrogen.

 

[HDD]

Great articles-thanks. I was assuming the heat was brought on by cortisol so it didn't dawn On me could be menopausal--I thought there was always intense sweating involved?

Do u know of creme progesterone is considered as beneficial as oral w/ vit e? I have the creme but stopped using it as I didn't think it did anything--maybe I need to use a lot more ??

Not necessarily menopausal but your estrogen/progesterone ratio. With low thyroid your estrogen is likely to be higher. I am post menopausal and get what you describe after going to bed at times. In my case, I believe it is also blood sugar.

I am not sure of the quality of the creme you use and the amount of progesterone you absorb from it. I'm currently using Progest-E. In one of Peat's articles or books, he writes about how vitamin E is effective with progesterone.
"My comparisons of oral progesterone in tocopherol with other forms and methods of administration show a roughly similar efficiency for oral and inject progesterone, and about 1/20 the effect for suppositories. Crystals of progesterone are visible in the suppositories I have examined, and this material is obviously wasted.

An old theory of vitamin E's mechanism of action in improving fertility was that it spares progesterone.(9) It is established that some of the effects of vitamin E and progesterone are similar, for example, both prevent oxygen waste and appear to improve mitochondrial coupling of phosphorylation with respiration. I suspected that if they actually both work at the same mitochondrial site, then they must have a high mutual solubility. "

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

He has also written that if you don't see effects from a large amount of progesterone, low thyroid and diet is usually the problem.

From a former forum poster, Peatarian-

" I have observed that after a long period of unopposed estrogen it takes a while for progesterone to have any effect. It sometimes even brings out the estrogen symptoms more strongly. Katharina Dalton believed in the receptor theory. It says that the progesterone receptors are blocked during long periods of estrogen dominance and that they cannot 'read' progesterone. Estrogen has to be lowered first. I think that's why using a big amount initially helps. I cannot tell you wether you used enough progesterone or why it didn't work for you if you did. I started with aspirin and vitamin A before using progesterone. "


"In my experience (and that of many women I have recommended it to) it takes a high dosage at the beginning. Women who were using thyroid (NDT thiroyd) before starting progesterone had no trouble at all but felt better instantly. But I know one woman whose estrogen dominance symptoms were increase when she started progesterone. She used three drops three times a day at that time. I advised her to use more and she was fine within a few hours. This woman was older than 60 and had had a hysterectomy years ago.
But I also know a younger woman who experienced the same. Only she had been using the pill for years."

Progesterone

 

[HDD]

Are you supplementing thyroid, t4 only? Peat believes this can be a problem, especially for women due to estrogen.

"T3, triiodothyronine, is the active thyroid hormone, and it is produced (mainly in the liver) from thyroxine, and the female liver is less efficient than the male liver in producing it, as is the female thyroid gland. The thyroid gland, which normally produces some T3, will decrease its production in the presence of increased thyroxine. Therefore, thyroxine often acts as a “thyroid anti-hormone,” especially in women. When thyroxine was tested in healthy young male medical students, it seemed to function “just like the thyroid hormone,” but in people who are seriously hypothyroid, it can suppress their oxidative metabolism even more. It’s a very common, but very serious, mistake to call thyroxine “the thyroid hormone.”

 

[HDD]

"Since progesterone helps the thyroid to secrete, and helps the liver to regulate glucose and convert T4 to T3, women who are low in progesterone usually have hypothyroid symptoms (because of insufficient T3), including high cortisol, which promotes the synthesis of estrogen (in several ways, but never from progesterone). Cortisol is made from progesterone, but increasing the supply of progesterone reliably lowers cortisol synthesis, acting on the brain, pituitary, and adrenal glands. Progesterone, by many mechanisms, including its antagonism to cortisol, lowers the amount of estrogen in cells (causing the estrogen-binding proteins to be degraded, inhibiting the enzymes that release estrogen from the sulfates and glucuronides, and activating the enzymes that detoxify estrogen). So I think the symptoms of increased estrogen and cortisol are the result of either extraneous ingredients in the creams, or from using it at the wrong time, for example, too early, triggering premature ovulation. Supplementing a small amount of T3, Cytomel or Cynomel, usually stops symptoms such as breast pain, irritability, and restless energy, in less than an hour.

I think continuing the progesterone would help to normalize thyroid responses. If you adjust the thyroid dose every two weeks according to how you feel, and according to your temperatures and pulse rate, there should be a point where your cycle is right, without needing progesterone. During the winter the need for thyroid is higher, because of the short days, so it's important to watch for decreasing need when the days are longer in the spring."

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

 

[beachbum]

"Since progesterone helps the thyroid to secrete, and helps the liver to regulate glucose and convert T4 to T3, women who are low in progesterone usually have hypothyroid symptoms (because of insufficient T3), including high cortisol, which promotes the synthesis of estrogen (in several ways, but never from progesterone). Cortisol is made from progesterone, but increasing the supply of progesterone reliably lowers cortisol synthesis, acting on the brain, pituitary, and adrenal glands. Progesterone, by many mechanisms, including its antagonism to cortisol, lowers the amount of estrogen in cells (causing the estrogen-binding proteins to be degraded, inhibiting the enzymes that release estrogen from the sulfates and glucuronides, and activating the enzymes that detoxify estrogen). So I think the symptoms of increased estrogen and cortisol are the result of either extraneous ingredients in the creams, or from using it at the wrong time, for example, too early, triggering premature ovulation. Supplementing a small amount of T3, Cytomel or Cynomel, usually stops symptoms such as breast pain, irritability, and restless energy, in less than an hour.

I think continuing the progesterone would help to normalize thyroid responses. If you adjust the thyroid dose every two weeks according to how you feel, and according to your temperatures and pulse rate, there should be a point where your cycle is right, without needing progesterone. During the winter the need for thyroid is higher, because of the short days, so it's important to watch for decreasing need when the days are longer in the spring."

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

My symptoms are not from other ingredients in creams. There are othere factors that lower progesterone, stress, over eating which would fall in the stress category, anyway other factors is yes ratio progesterone to estrogen and in my situation I have one ovary and the one that is left is done. Also having fibroids and a history if endometriosis can mess your ratio.

 

[HDD]

Lack of sunlight or protein deficiency also can cause imbalance. Without ovaries, Peat does recommend continual use of progesterone to replace lost supply.

My symptoms are not from other ingredients in creams. There are othere factors that lower progesterone, stress, over eating which would fall in the stress category, anyway other factors is yes ratio progesterone to estrogen and in my situation I have one ovary and the one that is left is done. Also having fibroids and a history if endometriosis can mess your ratio.

 

[beachbum]

Lack of sunlight or protein deficiency also can cause imbalance

Thank you very good to know.

 

[HDD]

Thank you very good to know.

Thyroid, cholesterol, and vitamin A are all needed to produce protective steroids.

 

[Tourist]

Are you supplementing thyroid, t4 only? Peat believes this can be a problem, especially for women due to estrogen.

"T3, triiodothyronine, is the active thyroid hormone, and it is produced (mainly in the liver) from thyroxine, and the female liver is less efficient than the male liver in producing it, as is the female thyroid gland. The thyroid gland, which normally produces some T3, will decrease its production in the presence of increased thyroxine. Therefore, thyroxine often acts as a “thyroid anti-hormone,” especially in women. When thyroxine was tested in healthy young male medical students, it seemed to function “just like the thyroid hormone,” but in people who are seriously hypothyroid, it can suppress their oxidative metabolism even more. It’s a very common, but very serious, mistake to call thyroxine “the thyroid hormone.”

***
Yes, unfortunately so. Looking for a doctor that would prescribe t3 right now

 

[WestCoaster]

Getting too hot for whatever reason is hindering sleep. One of the biggest causes of wiping out the metabolism is lack of sleep. One of the main symptoms of slow metabolism is feeling cold or chills. Sweating at night (barring you're in a brutally hot climate) is related to low blood sugar. Something a simple piece of cheese isn't going to fix. The heat could be menopausal but it also could very well be due to cortisol. It can rise and fall 24/7 given many circumstances, one of them being low blood sugar. Sugar in and itself causes blood sugar to rise and fall quickly, so you may think you have a stable blood sugar at "x" time (and you may very well have), but that doesn't mean 45 min later you do.

I keep telling people this (and believe me they like to ignore it lol), here and on other sites related to diet and nutrition; at no point in time should we have to be taking any types of supplements ever. If your current diet is forcing you to do so, it's the wrong diet, simple as that.

 

[Tourist]

Not necessarily menopausal but your estrogen/progesterone ratio. With low thyroid your estrogen is likely to be higher. I am post menopausal and get what you describe after going to bed at times. In my case, I believe it is also blood sugar.

I am not sure of the quality of the creme you use and the amount of progesterone you absorb from it. I'm currently using Progest-E. In one of Peat's articles or books, he writes about how vitamin E is effective with progesterone.
"My comparisons of oral progesterone in tocopherol with other forms and methods of administration show a roughly similar efficiency for oral and inject progesterone, and about 1/20 the effect for suppositories. Crystals of progesterone are visible in the suppositories I have examined, and this material is obviously wasted.

An old theory of vitamin E's mechanism of action in improving fertility was that it spares progesterone.(9) It is established that some of the effects of vitamin E and progesterone are similar, for example, both prevent oxygen waste and appear to improve mitochondrial coupling of phosphorylation with respiration. I suspected that if they actually both work at the same mitochondrial site, then they must have a high mutual solubility. "

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

He has also written that if you don't see effects from a large amount of progesterone, low thyroid and diet is usually the problem.

From a former forum poster, Peatarian-

" I have observed that after a long period of unopposed estrogen it takes a while for progesterone to have any effect. It sometimes even brings out the estrogen symptoms more strongly. Katharina Dalton believed in the receptor theory. It says that the progesterone receptors are blocked during long periods of estrogen dominance and that they cannot 'read' progesterone. Estrogen has to be lowered first. I think that's why using a big amount initially helps. I cannot tell you wether you used enough progesterone or why it didn't work for you if you did. I started with aspirin and vitamin A before using progesterone. "


"In my experience (and that of many women I have recommended it to) it takes a high dosage at the beginning. Women who were using thyroid (NDT thiroyd) before starting progesterone had no trouble at all but felt better instantly. But I know one woman whose estrogen dominance symptoms were increase when she started progesterone. She used three drops three times a day at that time. I advised her to use more and she was fine within a few hours. This woman was older than 60 and had had a hysterectomy years ago.
But I also know a younger woman who experienced the same. Only she had been using the pill for years."

Progesterone

Intersting stuff--Is your creme the one that Pete makes or from Haidut?

I do know the prog. creme I have is compounded with vit. E and I instructions say to use 5-10 mg at night so very lose dose I can see....

 

[HDD]

***
Yes, unfortunately so. Looking for a doctor that would prescribe t3 right now

Are you in the US?
Mary Shomon has a list by state you could check out. I went through her list for my state, reading the patient comments and then going to the doctor's website. I found a couple that did prescribe t3 and ndt.


Thyroid Top Doctors | Top Thyroid Doctors -- The Best Thyroid Doctors, Endocrinologists, Thyroidologists, Practitioners and Experts in the World as Nominated by Patients, from Patient Advocate Mary Shomon

 

[HDD]

Intersting stuff--Is your creme the one that Pete makes or from Haidut?

I do know the prog. creme I have is compounded with vit. E and I instructions say to use 5-10 mg at night so very lose dose I can see....

I'm using Peat's progesterone currently but I've used Haidut's and Healthnatura's.

 

[Orion]

I keep telling people this (and believe me they like to ignore it lol), here and on other sites related to diet and nutrition; at no point in time should we have to be taking any types of supplements ever. If your current diet is forcing you to do so, it's the wrong diet, simple as that.

Exactly, and RP's belief is that PUFA is the root. Eating a diet that depletes PUFA quickly or in the long term should be the goal. It has taken me 3 months zero fat, to deplete enough PUFA that I can sleep 6-7hrs straight from waking every 2hrs sweating. This can be done without any supplements, but I did use vitamin A/E/K and glycine/taurine for liver health and PUFA protection.

 

[HDD]

HD: So it's really just a failure of glucose storage. And people not consuming enough sugars. I know we have spoken at lengths about the need for fructose, fruit sugars, specifically. If people consume enough fruit sugars each day, their glycogen stores would be replenished in the liver, and then during the night, when typically we are fasting, there is enough stored sugar to enable the person to get through the night without getting into that anxiety state, using adrenaline as the next worst thing to keep things going.

HD2: Another thing is when people are under stress, physical or mental they will use up their sugar stores much quicker. A lot of times when people are under stress, they tend not to eat properly; they eat less. And that just creates a viscous cycle of stress hormones raising blood sugar by breaking down fat, and that whole back-up metabolism that can lead to cancer and all sorts of destructive problems.

RP: It lowers thyroid and progesterone, which are the basic energy producing, protective hormones. And in the absence of those, then you have to increase the acute emergency hormones; serotonin, estrogen and the various inflammatory things. In just the last five or six years there have been several studies showing that menopausal hot flashes can be prevented just with sugar. A big dose of carbohydrate at bedtime will work better than estrogen.
HD2: And that's just because it's replenishing the liver's stores, so it doesn't have to rely on those stress hormones to get some sugar.