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Exercise Induced Insomnia?

Discussion in 'Insomnia, Sleep Issues' started by LucasZ, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. jitsmonkey

    jitsmonkey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Messages:
    729

    It is completely irrelevant to my answer what you eat daily.
    If your activity level outstrips your fuel you.... run out of fuel, end up with an empty tank in the middle of the night and voila you can't sleep.
    I don't know what you eat NOR do I know what your activity/stress level is like.
    I DO know what running out of fuel looks and sounds like.

    You are making an assumption.... "I eat enough"
    and I'm not saying you don't
    You simply have the exact symptoms of an individual running out of fuel.

    If your activity level, stress level, metabolic level, etc mandates more than your daily intake then
    son you're out of fuel and you can't sleep. It won't matter whether you THINK you eat enough or not.

    I'll say it again...
    By definition "exercise induced insomina" is underfueling either temporally or globally. (yes, too much stress re: output may be a factor as well... ie. "over training")
    Especially if it is insomina induced by fairly non stressful efforts vs high intensity efforts
    it likely can be remedied by temporal fueling vs jumping to larger conclusions like hypo metobolism or estrogen as has been suggested.
    ALL are possible issues
    but simply altering fuel around activity and or sleep is the simplest, cheapest and least invasive
    first experiment.

    And to answer your question, NO I'm not a wizard.
    Now I know how much you eat
    and my reply is identical... sounds like a person outstripping the fuel provided.
    And for the record I did not say what you are eating is insufficient
    I simply said what your description sounds like.
    AND I gave you a handful in easy, cheap things to try.

    Next time I'll recommend an AAS cycle, a skateboard ride around the equator and a few thousand worth of supplements and that will seem more sensible I suppose.
    smh.

    PS - I bet those sweat potatoes are friggin disgusting.
     
  2. jitsmonkey

    jitsmonkey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Messages:
    729
    Adrenalin.

    lack of fuel OR the lack of ability to utilize fuel due to a shortfall of a given vitamin or mineral
    No not a wizard just a simpleton with simple ideas.
     
  3. foodandtheworld

    foodandtheworld Member

    Joined:
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    Jitsmonkey is 100% right.

    And it doesn't matter that people claim "overtraining doesn't occur in amateurs". If your body is producing a stress response, then the answer is right there. Even if you are consuming 3000 calories or more, if you have been under a chronic stress, then your body probably has not had sufficient resources to meet the demands put upon it. This is a good article on it since you are coming from a background of exercise: Bodily Resources vs Demands – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

    There is really no harm in taking several months off from training and focusing completely on recuperation. Your muscles won't deflate and your strength won't plummet, if that's the concern.
     
  4. OP
    LucasZ

    LucasZ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    32
    Thanks. That's why i love this forum so much :) I do think my serotonin is low... But hasn't that got the with getting adequate sleep?

    The ZMA (3 capsules) consist of 450mg magnesium, 30mg zinc and 10mg vitamin b6. Which isn't that much right?
    But it does sound logical what your saying, I'll lower it :)

    I take the doxepin 1 hour before bed. But low dose doxepin (5mg) works as a really strong histamine antagonist and doesn't compete with other receptors. That happens when the dose is >20mg.
     
  5. OP
    LucasZ

    LucasZ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    32
    Well thanks for thinking with me here. I'm just trying to understand how to get out this crappy situation.
    Sometimes i can get a little snappy ;) I do appreciate your help though :)

    `
    I understand. Thanks allot for your contribution. I've concluded to stop training for several months until my sleep has become more stable and feeling more energized during the day.

    As Fradon earlier in this thread says. It also sounds like low serotonin, which i think might be right. Does it also have to do with prolonged periods of stress and insomnia? I do eat high-protein but also allot of oats, fruits, rice, potatoes, juice, which should be sufficient, right?
     
  6. REOSIRENS

    REOSIRENS Member

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    Bingo!
    Looks like hypoglycemia
     
  7. jitsmonkey

    jitsmonkey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Messages:
    729
    Herein lies your current predicament "...which should be sufficient, right?"

    you're guessing. I have no idea if that's sufficient or not. Nobody does.
    The only way to find out is test it out.
    Go back to my original comments.

    Testing different timing of feeds pre-post-peri workout
    Testing different Protein:Carbohydrate Ratios
    This starts with identifying what you're already doing and adjusting from there

    You're trying to find the "right" answer without actually doing anything
    and that's a recipe for a crappy outcome.

    I understand trying to narrow things down to hopefully the quickest positive outcome
    but you can't avoid doing the work if you want a remedy.

    Example.... You could be eating a 1:2 protein to carbohydrate ratio and for many many many people that would be sufficient
    however it might not be for you.

    Bottom line is you are active
    that activity produces stress
    you try to mitigate that stress with doing good things for yourself including nutrition
    however you're not sleeping
    which on some level means the stress of your day/activity is NOT being mitigated.

    I could suggest 35 different drugs to try, 21 different supplements, 11 different devices to buy.

    But the simplest, cheapest, easiest recommendation is simply test out the timing, amount and ratios of your fuel
    around your workouts. That may be ALL you need do.
    I'm not saying ANY of the other suggestions are wrong I'm just saying this one is the simplest.
    Additionally IF you have a timing/amount/ratio issue... whatever exotic solutions you try to apply still won't work as
    effectively as they could.
     
  8. OP
    LucasZ

    LucasZ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    32
    Ok, thanks for your reply. I do understand what your meaning...

    I did some tests and i can assure you now that it has nothing to do with food, at least anymore. I've tried several things now regarding to pre-post workout meals, increase cal intake. Nothing makes a difference. What i do notice is that the intensity and fluid intake take a large role in symptoms manifesting.

    I've bumped my cal intake to 5200 kcal, which means eating literately all the time, lol. This does nothing for my symptoms. Keep in mind that i also have a quite
    sedentary job (engineering dep). So that's way too much (gaining weight rapitly, lol).
    Added more carbs + fat, which also didn't do anything.

    Increased fluid intake + taurine = makes it somewhat better, but still awaken allot really hot and sweaty all night. But no beating hart anymore. Feel allot better after training (not so stressed/no anxiety anymore). I know that increasing fluid intakes blunts cortisol release. So i do think it has something to do with too much cortisol.

    My earlier stressors have already subsided a while back. I do think you're right track on the fact that due to stressors my kcal demand was temporary higher, which might resulted in some sort of overtraining, like stated earlier in this thread.

    So... I'm gonna do some light deload weeks from weight training, which doesn't seem induce symptoms, and give my body more time to rest and gradually build up from there.
     
  9. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,049
    Why do you think your have low serotonin?
     
  10. Spartan300

    Spartan300 Member

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    @LucasZ did you fix your insomnia?

    If so what did you do? Thanks
     
  11. OP
    LucasZ

    LucasZ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
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    Well first of all, i have to take some steps back on workouts and fix my sleep issues mostly. Strenuous workouts + lack of sleep is not a good combo.
    Even without sports my sleep was not deep/long enough. I fixed this with 0.3mg melatonin + silenor 6mg (doxepin). Somehow my sleep schedule is out of whack.

    So melatonin fixes that mostly (i fall alsleep almost instantly - instead of 3 hours) and the doxepin is for sleep maintenance. So i sleep around 8 hours now. First it took some days before feeling better. It's strange to notice that autopilot feeling because of lack of sleep, sips away. So now i try to rest, rest and rest. Because i didn't give my body enough rest to recuperate from all stressing factors in daily life.

    I'm able to workout now again. It's nowhere where i was, but it's OK. As long as i see a little progression it's OK for me.

    Good luck! :)
     
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