Dead during day but very energetic at night, whyyy ???

[BlackMolasses]

For several months I have been suffering from severe insomnia, currently I have two to three sleepless nights a week.
I've already made a topic about my insomnia but I still haven't had an answer to my question about energy fluctuations.
During the day I'm EXTREMELY tired (can't sleep) but by evening/night it's like taking a cocaine/aderall and I have way too much energy to sleep, or I only sleep a few hours, in a scattered way.

Any idea why this phenomenon?

 

[BlackMolasses]

I ordered pure melatonin, I will try a daily solution of 30mg melatonin dissolved in alcohol or something like that + 15mg doxylamine + maybe magnesium.
Tried bromazepam (a benzo) but just felt like a brick, but still not able to sleep.

 

[catharsis]

It sounds like you have been running off of stress hormones (cortisol+adrenaline). How's your hunger during the day?

In general, getting some sun early in the morning (like within 30min of waking or during dawn), a bit during the day, and some before sundown can help reset your circadian rhythm. Riboflavin has been shown to help with that as well (I think there's a haidut post about this). Magnesium can help too for sleeping, the glycinate form is great.

 

[BlackMolasses]

Il semble que vous manquiez d'hormones de stress (cortisol + adrénaline). Comment est votre faim pendant la journée ?

I'm on high doses of testosterone so it's possible, but what I'm wondering is why it reverses at night, and why inducing sleep is so difficult
+ I am very hungry and gaining weight

 

[DeadCatBounce]

I'm on high doses of testosterone so it's possible, but what I'm wondering is why it reverses at night, and why inducing sleep is so difficult
+ I am very hungry and gaining weight

Its the testosterone. Enjoy the crappy sleep and quick aging. Mystery solved.

 

[cupofcoffee]

I'm on high doses of testosterone so it's possible, but what I'm wondering is why it reverses at night, and why inducing sleep is so difficult
+ I am very hungry and gaining weight

It's the High stress hormones that make you energetic at night and make It harder to sleep.

Have you considered lowering your testosterone dose?

 

[abady]

what works for me: wearing blue light-blocking glasses during the day + only drinking caffeine in the morning + eating starches cooked with butter before bed. I sleep easily without even trying.
lately, I've been waking up at 4 -5 AM with 7 hours of sleep.

 

[BlackMolasses]

It's the High stress hormones that make you energetic at night and make It harder to sleep.

Have you considered lowering your testosterone dose?

yes, but why are they high at NIGHT?

Its the testosterone. Enjoy the crappy sleep and quick aging. Mystery solved.

Why would testosterone do that? Isn't it supposed to antagonize cortisol? Many people have trouble sleeping because of a lack of testosterone.
It can increase adrenaline, but I also have insomnia when my adrenaline is low, I also had insomnia (to a lesser extent) when I was not using testosterone

 

[BlackMolasses]

@Matestube @Hans

 

[DeadCatBounce]

yes, but why are they high at NIGHT?

Why would testosterone do that? Isn't it supposed to antagonize cortisol? Many people have trouble sleeping because of a lack of testosterone.
It can increase adrenaline, but I also have insomnia when my adrenaline is low, I also had insomnia (to a lesser extent) when I was not using testosterone

It does stimulate the brain/CNS, the whole hormonal profile of the body changes, dopamine rises etc etc. I had the same issue with low energy during the day and being overstimulated at night. Lowering the dose did almost nothing for me. As well as Estrogen control was not the answer (for me). Had to stop completely and restart the system. Got back to normal after several months.

edit: the only thing that helped a bit was ED injections of about just 8mg-10mg per day in the morning. But was not feeling normal.

 

[Vanset]

TRT induced insomnia is a cult classic. If you go to testosterone subreddit you will struggle to find many people whose sleep was improved with TRT. Most people report development or worsening of insomnia.

About the energy imbalance this is a classical symptom of insomnia. If I don't sleep the entire night or sleep very little I will feel absolutely terrible until about 4-5 pm which is when a second wind kicks in and I feel borderline euphoric. Many people report this after a sleepless night. I suspect some kind of dopaminergic pathway involvement rather than cortisol or adrenaline.

 

[Matestube]

Its the testosterone. Enjoy the crappy sleep and quick aging. Mystery solved.

He had crappy sleep before any testosterone, read more of his threads or inquire before drawing conclusions.

 

[Matestube]

TRT induced insomnia is a cult classic. If you go to testosterone subreddit you will struggle to find many people whose sleep was improved with TRT. Most people report development or worsening of insomnia.

About the energy imbalance this is a classical symptom of insomnia. If I don't sleep the entire night or sleep very little I will feel absolutely terrible until about 4-5 pm which is when a second wind kicks in and I feel borderline euphoric. Many people report this after a sleepless night. I suspect some kind of dopaminergic pathway involvement rather than cortisol or adrenaline.

That's because they do TRT poorly.
You need test base with no ester, very high dose in the morning which will naturally fade away as the day goes on.
My sleep is just as good as before testosterone on this protocole.

 

[Vanset]

That's because they do TRT poorly.
You need test base with no ester, very high dose in the morning which will naturally fade away as the day goes on.
My sleep is just as good as before testosterone on this protocole.

Makes perfect sense to me. Have you tested your levels in the morning and in the evening on this protocol? Would be hard to test in the evening, but maybe . . . ?

 

[BlackMolasses]

That's because they do TRT poorly.
You need test base with no ester, very high dose in the morning which will naturally fade away as the day goes on.
My sleep is just as good as before testosterone on this protocole.

You're right, that's probably it, I usually do a second application of 100mg before bed.

 

[DeadCatBounce]

TRT induced insomnia is a cult classic. If you go to testosterone subreddit you will struggle to find many people whose sleep was improved with TRT. Most people report development or worsening of insomnia.

About the energy imbalance this is a classical symptom of insomnia. If I don't sleep the entire night or sleep very little I will feel absolutely terrible until about 4-5 pm which is when a second wind kicks in and I feel borderline euphoric. Many people report this after a sleepless night. I suspect some kind of dopaminergic pathway involvement rather than cortisol or adrenaline.

True. 90%+ of the people on TRT either say they have some newly developed sleep problems or they sleep less but feel OK(at first). The presumption here is that higher T = better recovery and less need for sleep. Which is of course not true. That is too simplistic. After awhile the body starts showing symptoms of unease. For me it took 1.5-2 years to start showing any symptoms signaling something is not right.

One could argue whether it is some dopamine or serotonin pathway or a combination of several factors. High T rises E which causes higher Serotonin. Which is really bad if you want to feel calm and be able to sleep. Some neurosteroids are also affected. I did some experiments to figure out what could help and nothing helps/didn't read Ray Peat at that time,now would have other ideas/ except surprisingly 1-2 Medium doses of MDMA.

After the ingestion (for scientific purposes only ofc) of MDMA, for the next 21 days I slept like a baby. Feel rested and rejuvenated physically after just 1-2 days of sleeping normally. First time I did it my face was completely different (in a good way) the very next morning. Done this several times and each time works damn well. After the 21st day things start to turn back to the old state of insomnia and lack of rejuvenation at night.

Wanted to know how it works and found information about tryptophan hydroxylase being literally destroyed by MDMA and it takes about 21 days to return back to old levels which would explain the effect on sleep and its duration.

This experiment and other experiences like those are the reason I stopped TRT. The benefits are just not worth it if your balls are working and there is no medical condition. Complicates life.

 

[DeadCatBounce]

That's because they do TRT poorly.
You need test base with no ester, very high dose in the morning which will naturally fade away as the day goes on.
My sleep is just as good as before testosterone on this protocole.

What dose would be considered very high ?

I've read a few posts about this protocol and it makes a lot of sense. Also eliminating the cotton seed oil and similar ***t carriers.

 

[Parsifal]

I ordered pure melatonin, I will try a daily solution of 30mg melatonin dissolved in alcohol or something like that + 15mg doxylamine + maybe magnesium.
Tried bromazepam (a benzo) but just felt like a brick, but still not able to sleep.

Don't take that much melatonin, it will destroy your sex hormones. 1 to 3mg is enough.

 

[BlackMolasses]

Don't take that much melatonin, it will destroy your sex hormones. 1 to 3mg is enough.

Not for me + as I said above I'm on trt anyway
And I guess it's normal for a stimulating hormone like testosterone to be antagonized by another hormone supposed to induce sleep.

 

[BlackMolasses]

That's because they do TRT poorly.
You need test base with no ester, very high dose in the morning which will naturally fade away as the day goes on.
My sleep is just as good as before testosterone on this protocole.

always t base + dmso? did you take it 24 hours later?