Getting Ripped With Dr Peat

[aquaman]

Now I'm on test 250-200mg weekly, and 20 mg per week of dianabol.

In a Peat view, Steroids would be very damaging for the hormonal balance, no? ie the effects on testosterone production (hugely reduced), estrogen production (increased) etc?

 

[Filip1993]

@superhuman Why are you eating so little? I don't mean to be rude but my sister who is 12 years old eats more than 1700 calories... I don't think people should overeat (even though some people might get some benefits from it) but restricting so much is dangerous imo.

 

[visionofstrength]

In a Peat view, Steroids would be very damaging for the hormonal balance, no? ie the effects on testosterone production (hugely reduced), estrogen production (increased) etc?

I think that's what Peat would say, yes. In my own experience, the Getting Ripped guide described here, which includes no steroids, lets you reach the levels of testosterone that steroids claim to achieve.

 

[newpeatie]

Thank you for the interesting thread! Were your testosterone levels low at some point? How did you figure on using pregnenolone instead of say DHEA? IS the plan simple like provide sugar, protein, substrate (pregnenolone), thyroid and have the body manufacture downstream products?

 

[Suikerbuik]

Let me put a side note on the sodium thing. I often read hings like cells leak water and lose sodium etc. but I don't get that to be honest. Sodium concentration inside cells is about 10 mM and Intracellular potassium levels are aprox. 100 mM. How am I supposed to read 'cells leak water'?? Because of reduced GFR? (glomerular filtration rate).

My view is that hypothyroid lose sodium because thyroid hormones are needed for steroid hormone synthesis and thus aldosterone. Reduced steroid synthesis leads to less aldosterone and less sodium reabsorbtion. Also reduced ATP levels (fatigue) causes less sodium reabsorbtion. So it's actually reduced tubular reabsorbtion causing sodium 'wasting'.

salt is only that concentration in the blood. The blood is only about 1/15 of our bodies total fluid.

Salt concentration is also relatively high (142 mM) in interstitial fluid. So all extra cellular fluid (including plasma). All extracellular fluid is about 1/3 of all fluid (water) in the body, so that comes down to aprox. 12.5 L (for a 65 kg person).

Total amount of sodium in exctracellular fluid: 142 (mmol/L) x 23 (g/mol fo Na) x 12,5 (L) = ~41,6 gram.

I have had measured my 24h sodium excretion several times ~230 mmol/day. (which is quite high, so don't compare yourself with me!). Anyway this is 5,3 gram sodium a day, translated to sodiumchloride this is 13,4 gram NaCl per day to keep equal.

A well functioning body, like pboy says, retains sodium fairly well.

 

[pboy]

My view is that hypothyroid lose sodium because thyroid hormones are needed for steroid hormone synthesis and thus aldosterone. Reduced steroid synthesis leads to less aldosterone and less sodium reabsorbtion. Also reduced ATP levels (fatigue) causes less sodium reabsorbtion. So it's actually reduced tubular reabsorbtion causing sodium 'wasting'.

indeed, another reason why dense nutritious calories are the most important thing...salt is easy to regulate when there is energy and non hypo water situations

and from my personal experience, excess salt is a burden and a slight sedative...it seems to induce a gaba state, good for sleep maybe, but slows down my whole gastric to urine rate, and my head feels heavy

 

[visionofstrength]

Is the plan simple like provide sugar, protein, substrate (pregnenolone), thyroid and have the body manufacture downstream products?

I know that it sounds too good to be true. And that all the orthodoxy you've heard says otherwise, and naysayers are everywhere you look. I know.

But yes, I think it really is as simple as what you've said. Delicious recipes of 1 cup nonfat dairy (10 grams protein) and 2-3 teaspoons sugar (25 grams sugar), which at the end of the day total at least 3,000 calories for a man and perhaps 2,400 for a woman, including a little coconut oil for saturated fat - along with pregnenolone and thyroid.

The problem seems to be that often, in the face of orthodoxy and naysayers, you just can't bring yourself to eat better. Maybe from feeling different, not like all the others? Or from some other stress that catches you in that all too familiar loop - you can't eat better until you feel better? You can't feel better until you eat better? *

By whatever path you take, once you do eat better, it gets a lot easier. The muscle builds, the fat melts off, and you feel like you're having the time of your life, like this is how life was meant to be.

* When you feel stressed, you may want to try some stress antagonists: CO2, redlight, aspirin/caffeine/gelatin combo, activated charcoal for digestive stress, and lisuride for feeling playful and connected to nature.

[Note: Peat suggests pregnenolone over DHEA, because when he tried DHEA he noticed some adverse effects over time, while he found pregnenolone to be safe for him even at therapeutic dosages over time of 1-3 grams.]

 

[visionofstrength]

Hi, Suikerbuik! Welcome! Your theories may well be right, but just to be fair to Ray Peat, may I briefly post his world view?

How am I supposed to read 'cells leak water'??

The movement of substances from blood to cell, and from cell to cell, is normally very tightly controlled, and when the systems that control those movements of water and its solutes are damaged, the tissues' structures and functions are altered. The prevention of inappropriate leakiness can protect against the degenerative processes, and against aging itself, which is, among other things, a state of generalized leakiness.

When cells' energy is depleted, water and various dissolved molecules are allowed to move into the cells, out of the cells, and through or around cells inappropriately. The weakened cells can even permit whole bacteria and similar particles to pass into and out of the blood stream more easily.

One of the earliest investigators of the effects of stress and fatigue on nerves and other cells was A.P. Nasonov, in the first half of the 20th century. A.S. Troshin (1956) has reviewed his work in detail. He showed that in cells as different as algae and nerve cells, fatigue caused them to take up dyes, and that the dyes were extruded, if the cells were able to recover their energy. When nerve cells are excited for a fraction of a second, they take up sodium and calcium, but quickly eliminate them. Prolonged excitation, leading to fatigue, can gradually shift the balance, allowing more substances to enter, and to stay longer.

A well functioning body, like pboy says, retains sodium fairly well.

I think it's fair to say that for Ray Peat our bodies are not "good or bad" but all connected to a larger consciousness in nature of rest and excitation, of retaining sodium and not retaining sodium. I've enjoyed many of your posts on this forum, and feel perhaps you also believe our bodies are connected to a larger consciousness as well?

 

[Suikerbuik]

Hi Visionofstrength, Thank you, yes then we're on the same line. Glomerular filtration rate has much to do with epithelial integrity and if compromised : 'leakiness'. This is merely, extracellular electrolyte movement indeed (paracellular). The (transcellular) Leakiness can be induced by sodium influx rather than loss of sodium from cells. But that's not the subject of this topic .

I also don't mean things to be about good or bad, but things like sodium balance are certainly a physical thing mostly in my opinion, influenced by cellular factors. But yeah, if you're 'subconscious' consciousness may tend to be more sympathic, you sodium handling is undoubtedly be affected by this. Basicly this comes down to personal variations in the whole interactome that is/ could be affected by 'underlying consciousness', but this is not so much causing huge/ pathological variations in human beings I think.

I may be a bit more hesitant/ scienetific, partly because of my training. However some facts make me certainly believe we're part of a whole bigger consciousness. Don't ask me how or what to imagine.. I just don't know . But, the fact hat everything in nature shows patterns; see fibonacci's fractal for example. There's a possible mechanism for quantum vibrations in microtubuli (in neurons). DNA helix possible be receptive to electromagnetic frequencies. The simple fact the 'simple' oscillations may contain a huge amount of information. For example when my voice makes the air vibrate, you are able receive this and able to interpret just these vibrations. Also the observation that our bodies contains chacras!?. Who knows what else may be there, we can't yet see and/or measure...???

I can't comprehend the huge amount of galaxies, solar systems and else that's out here either. So who am I to conclude we're expectional and are just creations based on random interactions? Although we humans like to be special and it is a possibility ofcourse (my scientific view), but highly unlikely. Too many things are too perfect to be just random and personal experiences only confirms that we are much more than just 'our bodies'.

We had some earlier information exchange by the way:
http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3537

 

[superhuman]

Is the plan simple like provide sugar, protein, substrate (pregnenolone), thyroid and have the body manufacture downstream products?

I know that it sounds too good to be true. And that all the orthodoxy you've heard says otherwise, and naysayers are everywhere you look. I know.

But yes, I think it really is as simple as what you've said. Delicious recipes of 1 cup nonfat dairy (10 grams protein) and 2-3 teaspoons sugar (25 grams sugar), which at the end of the day total at least 3,000 calories for a man and perhaps 2,400 for a woman, including a little coconut oil for saturated fat - along with pregnenolone and thyroid.

The problem seems to be that often, in the face of orthodoxy and naysayers, you just can't bring yourself to eat better. Maybe from feeling different, not like all the others? Or from some other stress that catches you in that all too familiar loop - you can't eat better until you feel better? You can't feel better until you eat better? *

By whatever path you take, once you do eat better, it gets a lot easier. The muscle builds, the fat melts off, and you feel like you're having the time of your life, like this is how life was meant to be.

* When you feel stressed, you may want to try some stress antagonists: CO2, redlight, aspirin/caffeine/gelatin combo, activated charcoal for digestive stress, and lisuride for feeling playful and connected to nature.

[Note: Peat suggests pregnenolone over DHEA, because when he tried DHEA he noticed some adverse effects over time, while he found pregnenolone to be safe for him even at therapeutic dosages over time of 1-3 grams.]

But skim milk with sugar doesnt taste good? like i fine it much more fun to eat my food/calories then to drink it?

But sure i would do it if it made the fat melt off and all that but i dont think i would loose fat on 3000 kcal even tho im active and stuff.

 

[superhuman]

@superhuman Why are you eating so little? I don't mean to be rude but my sister who is 12 years old eats more than 1700 calories... I don't think people should overeat (even though some people might get some benefits from it) but restricting so much is dangerous imo.

For sure its little, but im doing an aggressive cut so that i can loose fat faster so i dont have to cut calories for that long.

Its not dangerous as long as you dont do it for to long

 

[superhuman]

SH, Can you make a cronometer for us, of what you eat?

I'm sorry, I think I can explain this a little better if I can use the cronometer as a reference? It's free at cronometer.com .

Sure i use cronometer and all that my macros are as of now.

222g protein, 133g carbs, 35g fat
So yeah almost low carb. This is working in terms of getting my leaner, and i havent done it for long either.
Before that i was religiously doing 2.5:1 ratio carbs:protein

http://bildr.no/view/VG14OWhp

there u have screen

 

[visionofstrength]

222g protein, 133g carbs, 35g fat
So yeah almost low carb. This is working in terms of getting my leaner

I'm afraid this calorie-restricted diet is likely to result in a loss of your lean body mass, which includes your muscles, bones or organs, while your metabolism also drops.

Can you tell me this: What is your percentage body fat (BF%)? What is your total weight (TW)?

From this, we can tell what your lean body mass (LBM) is. Because LBM equals TW minus (TW times BF%). It's important that your LBM stays the same or increases, while your BF% decreases.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

222g protein, 133g carbs, 35g fat
So yeah almost low carb. This is working in terms of getting my leaner

I'm afraid this calorie-restricted diet is likely to result in a loss of your lean body mass, which includes your muscles, bones or organs, while your metabolism also drops.

Can you tell me this: What is your percentage body fat (BF%)? What is your total weight (TW)?

From this, we can tell what your lean body mass (LBM) is. Because LBM equals TW minus (TW times BF%). It's important that your LBM stays the same or increases, while your BF% decreases.

Well for a start he's making protein his dominant macronutrient which is likely to mean a lot of it is being used for fuel and also setting him up enzymatically to run off "stored" protein (i.e muscle and organ tissue). Hardly optimal.

 

[Philomath]

visionofstrength,
you mentioned taking pregnenolone, 1-3 grams a day. I just read a Peat article saying 300mg lasts for about a week:


Pregnenolone is largely converted into two other "youth-associated" protective hormones, progesterone and DHEA. At the age of 30, both men and women produce roughly 30 to 50 mg. of pregnenolone daily. When taken orally, even in the powdered form, it is absorbed fairly well. One dose of approximately 300 mg (the size of an aspirin tablet) keeps acting for about a week, as absorption continues along the intestine, and as it is "recycled" in the body. Part of this long lasting effect is because it improves the body's ability to produce its own pregnenolone. It tends to improve function of the thyroid and other glands, and this "normalizing" effect on the other glands helps to account for its wide range of beneficial effects.

What's your take on this? Should an average person start out at 1-3 grams and reduce as needed or is there a specific reason for taking large doses daily?

Thanks!

 

[gummybear]

Is the plan simple like provide sugar, protein, substrate (pregnenolone), thyroid and have the body manufacture downstream products?

I know that it sounds too good to be true. And that all the orthodoxy you've heard says otherwise, and naysayers are everywhere you look. I know.

But yes, I think it really is as simple as what you've said. Delicious recipes of 1 cup nonfat dairy (10 grams protein) and 2-3 teaspoons sugar (25 grams sugar), which at the end of the day total at least 3,000 calories for a man and perhaps 2,400 for a woman, including a little coconut oil for saturated fat - along with pregnenolone and thyroid.

The problem seems to be that often, in the face of orthodoxy and naysayers, you just can't bring yourself to eat better. Maybe from feeling different, not like all the others? Or from some other stress that catches you in that all too familiar loop - you can't eat better until you feel better? You can't feel better until you eat better? *

By whatever path you take, once you do eat better, it gets a lot easier. The muscle builds, the fat melts off, and you feel like you're having the time of your life, like this is how life was meant to be.

* When you feel stressed, you may want to try some stress antagonists: CO2, redlight, aspirin/caffeine/gelatin combo, activated charcoal for digestive stress, and lisuride for feeling playful and connected to nature.

[Note: Peat suggests pregnenolone over DHEA, because when he tried DHEA he noticed some adverse effects over time, while he found pregnenolone to be safe for him even at therapeutic dosages over time of 1-3 grams.]

Peat uses DHEA atm.

 

[Filip1993]

@superhuman Why are you eating so little? I don't mean to be rude but my sister who is 12 years old eats more than 1700 calories... I don't think people should overeat (even though some people might get some benefits from it) but restricting so much is dangerous imo.

For sure its little, but im doing an aggressive cut so that i can loose fat faster so i dont have to cut calories for that long.

Its not dangerous as long as you dont do it for to long

Maybe you are right, or not...I would never do something like that to lose some weight. How are you feeling when eating so little? Do you have energy to do things?

 

[pboy]

super human, you are ******* up your every day life just because of science and false beliefs about how your body works...just letting you know, I can only imagine how you must feel and it literally hurts me thinking about it

you seem really positive, which is cool...must be a resilient soul

 

[superhuman]

super human, you are f***ing up your every day life just because of science and false beliefs about how your body works...just letting you know, I can only imagine how you must feel and it literally hurts me thinking about it

you seem really positive, which is cool...must be a resilient soul

Tell me your recommendations then what you would have done to loose the weight?

I know alot of people doing the same thing to cut weight and are doing it fine. I know Its not ideal in terms of carb:protein ratio but as for now if i eat say 100-120g protein and rest from carbs i still feel very hungry but with that high protein, cutting calories feels alot easier since i feel full. I also feel less water retention and im able to maintain or even build a little muscle while loosing all the fat.

 

[superhuman]

@superhuman Why are you eating so little? I don't mean to be rude but my sister who is 12 years old eats more than 1700 calories... I don't think people should overeat (even though some people might get some benefits from it) but restricting so much is dangerous imo.

For sure its little, but im doing an aggressive cut so that i can loose fat faster so i dont have to cut calories for that long.

Its not dangerous as long as you dont do it for to long

Maybe you are right, or not...I would never do something like that to lose some weight. How are you feeling when eating so little? Do you have energy to do things?

Its tough for sure, but i can manage since i know its only for a period of time to my goal is reached.