Is the Ray Peat "diet" a difficult diet?

Discussion in 'Discussing Dietary Models' started by narouz, Jul 22, 2012.

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  1. narouz

    narouz Member

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    Actually, I agree with Ray Peat's ideas and philosophies, and I do not think I know better.
    I'm not sure I'm up to a "formal" debate.
    I'd simply like to hear others' opinions on this basic question.
    So, let's see, how do you start...?

    PROPOSED:
    The Ray Peat "diet" (insofar as one can extrapolate a diet from his writings and interviews), in it's pretty strict form, is a difficult diet.
     
  2. j.

    j. Guest

    it's a very easy diet, provided you have access to good fruit and dairy. when most of what you eat is fruit and dairy, you cook very little. i can get away with cooking once a day, and the cooking consists of boiling an egg or frying beef.
     
  3. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Narouz, I was actually thinking of taking the "formal" part out of the description today. Thank you for the reminder. :ugeek:
     
  4. stevensmith

    stevensmith Member

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    It's funny, we all (including me) throw around the term "peat diet" all the time, but there really isn't such thing. Peat doesn't have a set of strict guidelines like other gurus do because he believes that we should find out for ourselves. There are general consensuses among peat followers thought, have at least 300g carbs per day, only one carrot a day, etc, but Peat's suggestions are pretty broad, like "limit PUFA," "have at least 80g protein." I think his suggestions are things that are not too extreme and that most people can agree with.

    Peat believes strongly in context. A person could have 50% of their calories from fat, or 5%, depending on what they need and what kind of healing they need. I think that the fact that the only thing we are truly restricting to a large level is PUFA, its not really a restrictive diet at all.
     
  5. ericrlepine

    ericrlepine Member

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    I would maybe add as a second category of foods to try to generally restrict, although not as strictly as the aforementioned PUFAs: starch. Carbs in general are encouraged as we all know but, carbs originating from starches should probably be limited for most people, at least most of the time.

    Interestingly enough, every "broad" food category that we should restrict/limit based on Peat's work either falls in the PUFA category (most vegetables, grains, beans, commercially-raised chicken and pork, etc.) or the starch category...

    People who have spent many years following USDA nutritional guidelines only feel deprived/restricted when considering a "Ray Peat-esque" approach because of the fact that the bulk of the food they have consumed and have been told are healthy are, in reality, simply different forms/shapes of the same few ingredients, namely a type of flour/starch with some PUFAs!!!!

    However, if, like many who have discovered Peat's context-driven guidelines, you come from a low-carb or paleo background, then it does feel like many restrictions, all of a sudden, disappear :)

    Ice cream (and for pure paleos, dairy in general), OJ and fruit, salt, sweeteners/sweets (including gummy bears!!!!), etc. and all the amazing healthy foods that you are encouraged to eat are certainly not indicative of a restrictive approach, quite the contrary I think...
     
  6. Gregory Taper

    Gregory Taper Member

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    Where have you been eric?
     
  7. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    I'd like to give a fuller response, but for starters I'd just like to say that one of the difficult things in writing about Ray Peat's uh...er...food ideas...is that one is tortured with semantics.

    Yes, Stephen, I agree and you are correct, but...

    How to name or refer to Peat's ideas about food?
    If one can't say "diet," then we all constantly strain to give a name to the thing we're referring to.
    So we have to Repeatedly (ha) come up with all sorts of cumbersome and clumsy or just plain weird terms/phrases like:

    "the Peat way of eating"
    " eating like Peat"
    "eating according to Peat principles"
    "eating according to Peat guidelines"
    "following Peatian nutritional ideas"
    "Peat Eating"

    It's enough to beat one into submission and give up trying to communicate about it!
    The Ineffable Thing!
    The Tao Which Cannot Be Spoken!
    The UnSpeakable Name!

    Yes...I know from months of trying to write about it that it is not a "diet"!
    But what an f-ing pain in the butt!! :?
    Can we just all agree to call it a "diet" while assuming we are all aware it is not?
    Maybe [diet] or "diet" would do!?

    Sorry...not directed at you, Stephen.
    I just had to vent! :crazy:
     
  8. OP
    narouz

    narouz Member

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    Postulated: It can drive one crazy...

    Postulated:

    It it exhausting trying to discuss a Peat "diet" without being able to call it a "diet."
     
  9. stevensmith

    stevensmith Member

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    Good point, but I think it would be best to avoid "ray peat diet" as much as possible. I know we have all used the term, including me, but Ray himself probably wouldn't want his food preferences categorized as a "diet." He has stated many times that everything is contextual, even his own recommendations. I eat roughly 80g of fat per day, but this amount wouldn't be good for somebody who is not physically active or someone who wishes to lose weight. "Diets" typically fit under the premise that the foods suggested have a specific amount recommended. If the same rules don't apply to me as they do to somebody else, how can it be a "diet?"

    I/we all know what somebody is talking about when somebody says "Ray Peat diet," but what about the average person who is just coming off the south beach diet, or atkins, etc? When hearing the word "diet," it can do two things. (1) They are going to want to follow specific recommendations, such as those out of some diet guru book. (2) They might be a bit apprehensive to try it because even the thought of the word "diet" frightens them. It might remind them of their dreaded rabbit food, or low carb days. They might feel like they are going to be told to radically restrict something.

    When we all start calling it a "ray peat diet," it right off the bat draws the likes of people who would rather somebody read them a list of recommendations, than to work on their health themselves, and find out what the right ratios for them are. It sets up laziness, and apathy. If we all had a perfect set of guidelines, as guru books do, why would we ever have a reason to research or do anything?
     
  10. stevensmith

    stevensmith Member

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    Anyone can call it whatever they want. If you want to call it a "diet," thats fine. Don't listen to me. I am a highly opinionated person who probably thinks way too deeply into things. Misnomers, etc, are one of my pet peeves. For example, people use the word "epidemic" to describe obesity. Does this mean that if I hang out with fat people, I am going to "catch" obesity?

    To be honest, in the broad scheme of things, who really cares? Calling it a "diet" will probably draw more attention to it, but I think that people who share the same viewpoint as me don't want it turning into another "diet" like paleo, etc, where everybody has their own take on what exact ratios, macronutrients, etc... Wouldn't it be best to avoid that controversy right off the bat?
     
  11. SeanBissell

    SeanBissell New Member

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    I actually think that if you like to eat solid food, and make "recipes" or "restaurant quality" food, or enjoy variety, it's actually pretty tough.

    I feel like I'm getting better at it and have been playing with new recipes that I'm trying to come up with.

    Like lots of fruit and fish, and fruit and shellfish, and lamb shank type recipes.

    But generally speaking, unless you really are OK with keeping lots of your calories in liquid form, it's pretty tough.

    And its super-tough to avoid PUFAs when eating out.
    -Sean
     
  12. ericrlepine

    ericrlepine Member

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    GT? You are???

    I left Facebook some time ago though, as I am assuming this is what you were implying :cool:
     
  13. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    :lol: :clap:
     
  14. cliff

    cliff Member

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    The only things you shouldn't really eat on a peat inspired diet is PUFA rich fat and wheat. Even those could be included in a peat style diet though. Out of all the diets I've seen peats is probably the least restrictive but it also takes some effort to dial it in due to the horrendous quality of most foods.
     
  15. Gregory Taper

    Gregory Taper Member

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    GT=Gregory Taper.
    Whyd you leave facebook?
     
  16. ericrlepine

    ericrlepine Member

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    Riiiight, silly me! Many reasons really but, mostly to free up some wasted time... Forums like these are much more streamlined towards my needs and interests... I do miss your music links I have to say though :)
     
  17. stevensmith

    stevensmith Member

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    This speaks volumes for eating a peat inspired diet. Best way to describe the restrictions right here. PUFA is the only thing truly restricted, and depending on the individual, one can decide how restricted they want to be with starches. Peat never mentioned anything about severely restricting starches. I don't know where that myth came from. A raw carrot can counteract the negative effects of the insoluble fiber and starch to a degree. It is a bit tough making certain decisions, as Cliff says, such as whether to drink raw milk without added vitamins to avoid potential allergens, or drink lowfat, store-bought milk to avoid gaining fat. Either way, I think if one is to purchase store-bought milk, it is probably best to purchase lower fat versions to lower the amount of organophosphate load and fat soluble toxins that enter the body. Grassfed cow milk is probably fine if it's whole.
     
  18. stevensmith

    stevensmith Member

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    Sean, I came across this problem myself friend. A lot of people think that Peat suggests drinking a gallon of milk per day and 1/2 gallon of OJ lol. I couldn't do anything close to that lol... I drink about 1/2 gallon milk and 1/4 gallon OJ per day. By doing this, I quench my thirst and don't lower my temperatures by diluting my salts too much. I think that Peat has emphasized the importance of adding salt many times before, and he never mentioned anything about people having to drink lots of fluid. He mentioned somewhere that at one point in his life, he drank 1 gallon of milk per day, but just because he did that once, doesn't mean we have to emulate that. Solid foods are very important, esp for digestion, and it takes a little time to get used to but once you know how to cook quick recipes in a crockpot, and on the fry pan, like once per day, its easy. Many times, I will make a huge pot of oxtail and beef neck soup, that will feed my girlfriend and I dinner for four days! One can cook in volume with other things as well.
     
  19. ericrlepine

    ericrlepine Member

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    I agree with Cliff, as I mentioned in my post as well, that I don't see Peat's approach as restrictive (although, as I alluded to, this is can be quite relative to where the individual is coming from in terms of dietary background...).

    But, I cannot agree with neither Cliff or Steven that Peat hasn't emphasized staying away from starch (at least certain starches) as their main source of carbs. Complete elimination is probably not required (and I also stressed that in an earlier post), and probably nothing close to that is necessary for people who do well enough on them but, a quick glance at his books, a few of his articles on the topic of "sugars" and listening to his radio interviews (most notably, the ones pertaining specifically to "sugars") and one should clearly see what I am implying here...

    For various reasons, and depending on the source of starch per say (whether it's because of fermentation in the lower small intestine, compared to simple sugars from fruits, milk, etc., higher glycemic index, PUFA and antinutrient load, etc), I feel quite confident in saying that starch, as per Peat's approach, should be limited (again though, I'll reiterate that, for most, they are certainly not even close to being as problematic as unsaturated fats are...). There are some safer ones of course, such as potatoes, winter squashes, turnips, carrots (a semi-starchy root), ripe plantains, and even white rice and masa harina, but it's safe to say that in considering what most people (before being exposed to Peat's guidelines) consume in terms of starches, reducing them would be quite beneficial...
     
  20. ericrlepine

    ericrlepine Member

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    ... or at least substituting the least desirable ones with more desirable ones.

    I am simply speaking from experience in dealing with clients; if you tell them that starches are OK, they go crazy on grains (and all processed foods made with the latter) usually.

    Few people go crazy on potatoes (well, except in the form of chips and fries fried in unsaturated oils :eek: ) or winter squashes and other tubers, at least generally-speaking.

    So in keeping with the "simplicity" concept, I tend to like to tell people: limit starches. Except for (list acceptable ones). And, try to get most of your carbs from milk and fruit/honey/sugar...

    Make sense?
     
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