Fruits Are A Bad Choice For Most People

[SuperStressed]

Yea I don't like fruit that much anymore to be honest. I'm convinced that starch, meat, dairy, and fat are the hallmarks to good health, and they were what fueled our brain's expansion to differentiate ourselves to who we are today. Using fruit as a garnish as a dish, such as the tomato, or even consuming apple sauce, is ok, but I've noticed negative health effects from over consumption of fruit. My back becomes extra tight when I overconsume fruit, to the point where I wake up with a sore and tight lower back. This never happens if I'm drinking milk and eating cheese, so I'm certain that the excess fruit does me no good. Fruit also doesn't sufficient energy to last for the next couple hours. Back in my fruitarian experiments, I would have to be eating constantly every hour just to sustain blood sugar. Although that's the abuse of fruit, which isn't fair because any food abused will cause problems. In any matter, fruit is at best used as a desert or snack, but cannot become the main component of the diet, at least if you want to have sufficient energy to work/think/play for hours without having to re-up on energy.

I have confirmed SIBO though so according to ray starch should be zero. I think he's right about that.

 

[Runenight201]

I have confirmed SIBO though so according to ray starch should be zero. I think he's right about that.

For sure. I even notice that if my digestion is stressed or constipated, I have no choice but to fast from starch until my stomach can handle it. This always leads to a lowering of strength, energy, and motivation, but at least it doesn't cause inflammation that consuming starch in a physiologically inappropriate state would do. I usually consume eggs, cheese, coffee, milk, sugar, sometimes fruit, etc... in this state, until my stomach is ready to incorporate starch again. It usually doesn't take any longer than 4-10 hours to resolve itself, and while I know some conditions are very complicated, such as Crohns, IBS, SIBO, etc.... I do think that the average hypo individual can handle starch if they just fast for half a day to a day, wait for clear cut hunger to kick in, and then consume an appropriately prepared starch.

I do think that when you get the SIBO resolved you should find a way to incorporate it back into your diet, perhaps in small amounts, and definitely prepared properly, with fat, protein, salt, etc...

 

[Inaut]

Right now I’m vacationing in Greece and I’m eating a ton of ripe, fresh fruits from markets and local farmers. I feel the best I’ve felt in a long time (although I’m eating way too much). I think as pointed out, ripe is the key with fruits. I know when I get back to Canada it’s back to sup par fruiting

 

[Kingpinguin]

Yea I don't like fruit that much anymore to be honest. I'm convinced that starch, meat, dairy, and fat are the hallmarks to good health, and they were what fueled our brain's expansion to differentiate ourselves to who we are today. Using fruit as a garnish as a dish, such as the tomato, or even consuming apple sauce, is ok, but I've noticed negative health effects from over consumption of fruit. My back becomes extra tight when I overconsume fruit, to the point where I wake up with a sore and tight lower back. This never happens if I'm drinking milk and eating cheese, so I'm certain that the excess fruit does me no good. Fruit also doesn't sufficient energy to last for the next couple hours. Back in my fruitarian experiments, I would have to be eating constantly every hour just to sustain blood sugar. Although that's the abuse of fruit, which isn't fair because any food abused will cause problems. In any matter, fruit is at best used as a desert or snack, but cannot become the main component of the diet, at least if you want to have sufficient energy to work/think/play for hours without having to re-up on energy.

Eating only 90% of your diet fruit has always been madness. Like you said from an evolutionary stand point we would not be who we are today if we only ate fruit. Fire is what unlocked everything. Fruit can only give so much glucose to our brains. Once we learned to make fire and cook starches to make them digestible and unlock all that glucose. Thats when our brain size exploded compared to other animals and it makes sense. Learning to cook meat and starches. Many nutrients get unlocked when cooked/heated. Without cooking we would likely get malnourished accounting for the fact that compared to other animals our brains need 120 grams of glucose per day just for the basic stuff. Fruits is a staple in the diet. But you still have to eat quality meat, quality fats and larger portions of starches. I tend to use sugars more like a supplement. If I do something stressfull I use sugar to block cortisol and i also like extra fructose for cholesterol synthesis. Other than that I go for cooked meats and starches like potatoes, white rice and sweet potato.

 

[Kingpinguin]

Food for Thought: Was Cooking a Pivotal Step in Human Evolution?

-” Moreover, when humans try to eat more like chimpanzees and other primates, we cannot extract enough calories to live healthily”

And

-”Cooking also increases the energy they can get from the food they eat. Starchy potatoes and other tubers, eaten by people across the world, are barely digestible when raw.”


@Runenight201

What u mentioned

Also this points back to haiduts post about okinawans living so long eating mainly carbohydrate based diet where the potato is a staple. I think a diet mainly of carbs and 120 grams daily protein with some saturated fat is likely optimal for human longevity.

 

[Runenight201]

Eating only 90% of your diet fruit has always been madness. Like you said from an evolutionary stand point we would not be who we are today if we only ate fruit. Fire is what unlocked everything. Fruit can only give so much glucose to our brains. Once we learned to make fire and cook starches to make them digestible and unlock all that glucose. Thats when our brain size exploded compared to other animals and it makes sense. Learning to cook meat and starches. Many nutrients get unlocked when cooked/heated. Without cooking we would likely get malnourished accounting for the fact that compared to other animals our brains need 120 grams of glucose per day just for the basic stuff. Fruits is a staple in the diet. But you still have to eat quality meat, quality fats and larger portions of starches. I tend to use sugars more like a supplement. If I do something stressfull I use sugar to block cortisol and i also like extra fructose for cholesterol synthesis. Other than that I go for cooked meats and starches like potatoes, white rice and sweet potato.

I second using for sugar to block cortisol. The tricky thing is using sugar to block cortisol without it dulling the mind, which is usually what happens if I overdo something like cola or sprite. To avoid this, I'll either put sugar in my apple sauce, sugar in yogurt, sugar in milk, and sugar in tea. The different chemicals available in conjunction with the sugar prevent the mental retardation I can get from drinking just straight cola. I do find straight soda acceptable at times when I've severely depleted my glucose stores, such as if I engage in an intense game of soccer or repeated sprints. Any other time though I find the straight sugar to retard the mind. However, if I'm choosing between being stressed out or having subpar mental function, I'll choose the subpar mental function, but the same cortisol blocking, energy raising effects of sugar can be achieved by consuming it in conjunction with these other substances I listed, rather than just on its own, which a large portion of the population does in the form of candy and soda.

I just finished a sugary yerba mate :) Definitely recommend trying this one out. Coffee/milk/sugar can sometimes have some odd effects, it's almost too potent. I've definitely had some manic moments followed by headaches and withdrawals from overdoing coffee/sugar/milk. Sugar, tea, and some fruit flavoring provides a brighter, cleaner, less intense mood lift.

 

[Kingpinguin]

I second using for sugar to block cortisol. The tricky thing is using sugar to block cortisol without it dulling the mind, which is usually what happens if I overdo something like cola or sprite. To avoid this, I'll either put sugar in my apple sauce, sugar in yogurt, sugar in milk, and sugar in tea. The different chemicals available in conjunction with the sugar prevent the mental retardation I can get from drinking just straight cola. I do find straight soda acceptable at times when I've severely depleted my glucose stores, such as if I engage in an intense game of soccer or repeated sprints. Any other time though I find the straight sugar to retard the mind. However, if I'm choosing between being stressed out or having subpar mental function, I'll choose the subpar mental function, but the same cortisol blocking, energy raising effects of sugar can be achieved by consuming it in conjunction with these other substances I listed, rather than just on its own, which a large portion of the population does in the form of candy and soda.

Never really had that with sugar but I have a raging metabolism. If I dont have some sugars every now and then I feel worse mood wise. But I dont eat that much sugar overall. Like you I have honey in te and from time to time drink coke. I never eat white sugar only honey. Pre and after work outs I take a tablespoon and from my experience it has really helped perserve muscle mass. Anyway also found this in previous posted article.

- ”Fossils show the teeth and digestive tract of Homo erectus decreased in size around the same time brain size increased. This evidence likely means our ancestors started eating softer, higher-quality foods (although not necessarily cooked). New archaeological research has also continued to push back the earliest known date for the control of fire.”

This also kinda speaks for ray about cooking all food even veggies. Since they get more digestible, more nutricious and better for your health mainly from a calorie point of view. Interesting the part that the teeth shrunk and brain grew. Just speaks for eating soft, digestible food that is well cooked.

 

[lampofred]

I think if eating only fruit is lowering brain function then you might be glycine deficient. Glycine increases efficiency so that you don't need so much energy/calories to do a given task, and often the end result is even better than it would have been otherwise when you were using 3x as much energy as necessary.

 

[Nicole W.]

Well, monkeys in general also eat a lot of raw vegetation, which is very tough. The digestive tract of monkeys has adapted to harboring a lot of bacteria, and the more bacteria, the thicker the mucous layer on the gut will be, so if even twigs don't bother their gut, some little seeds probably wont either.

Monkeys don’t have exactly the same diet as Chimpanzee. Chimpanzees eat up to 80% of their diet as fruit. Mostly figs, is what I’ve read. What I was trying to point out is that there’s a fair bit of PUFA in those figs regardless of what the digestive capabilities of these animals are. Chimpanzees are a close relative of ours and they do eat fruit deemed by Ray as not being ideal for us humans yet, as it happens, Chimps eat a whole lot of figs and have very low incidence of cancer. According to OP’s quote re: Ray’s objection to fruits with small seeds ( like berries, figs...) is mostly about the PUFA and other carcinogenic substances contained in those fruit. My point is that I see an inconsistency here: I guess if you’re a Chimp you can safely eat pounds of seeded fruit everyday for your entire life and be healthy and cancer free, but if you’re a human, not so much. (According to Peat).

 

[ExCarniv]

I second using for sugar to block cortisol. The tricky thing is using sugar to block cortisol without it dulling the mind, which is usually what happens if I overdo something like cola or sprite. To avoid this, I'll either put sugar in my apple sauce, sugar in yogurt, sugar in milk, and sugar in tea. The different chemicals available in conjunction with the sugar prevent the mental retardation I can get from drinking just straight cola. I do find straight soda acceptable at times when I've severely depleted my glucose stores, such as if I engage in an intense game of soccer or repeated sprints. Any other time though I find the straight sugar to retard the mind. However, if I'm choosing between being stressed out or having subpar mental function, I'll choose the subpar mental function, but the same cortisol blocking, energy raising effects of sugar can be achieved by consuming it in conjunction with these other substances I listed, rather than just on its own, which a large portion of the population does in the form of candy and soda.

I just finished a sugary yerba mate :) Definitely recommend trying this one out. Coffee/milk/sugar can sometimes have some odd effects, it's almost too potent. I've definitely had some manic moments followed by headaches and withdrawals from overdoing coffee/sugar/milk. Sugar, tea, and some fruit flavoring provides a brighter, cleaner, less intense mood lift.

Oh Yerba Mate with sugar, you'll probably killed by the gauchos, they drink Mate without sugar, it's called "Mate amargo" here in my country.

 

[Dave Clark]

I also remember somewhere that Peat said as long as the seed was not broken down you would not get any of the negative things it contained, PUFA, plant toxins, etc. Seeds are rarely digested in whole form, so if they are not chewed the worst that may happen is gut irritation, and that doesn't always happen if the seeds are shrouded in fiber. I think we may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater if these proven healthy fruits are forgone because of their seeds, which are not a problem if not chewed, in my opinion.

 

[ExCarniv]

I eat fruits only local and in season, now we have good oranges and mandarins, they're really sweet so I crave them all day.

I found that a ratio of 2:1 sugar to starch is a good balance, for me at least, potatoes are good if you gut is working well and white rice is pretty easy for digestion and good to add some calories if you need to bulk up.

 

[SuperStressed]

Hello Ray,

Does cooking an under-ripe fruit get its properties such as starch and fibre content close enough to its fully ripened state for it to be considered safe?

and are climacteric fruits like Melons safe if they only ripened after being picked?

Thank you

Ray replied

They are usually like a starchy vegetable, not very digestible, but better than raw starch.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

I believe the one fruit you can't go wrong with is the date. They are always tree-ripened unless you buy the yellow bahri variety. I think they're the best source of carbs if you're looking to avoid starches. Bananas aren't bad either but personally I can't stand the ubiquitous Cavendish variety.

The only real issue I experience with underripe fruit is the acidity. If I eat too many underripe mangoes, peaches, apples, etc my teeth will begin to hurt.

 

[Tenacity]

Better than raw starch isn't exactly saying much...

 

[SuperStressed]

Better than raw starch isn't exactly saying much...

I think he means as in raw unripe fruit.

 

[Herbie]

Ray said the banana is too stressed

 

[ExCarniv]

I believe the one fruit you can't go wrong with is the date. They are always tree-ripened unless you buy the yellow bahri variety. I think they're the best source of carbs if you're looking to avoid starches. Bananas aren't bad either but personally I can't stand the ubiquitous Cavendish variety.

The only real issue I experience with underripe fruit is the acidity. If I eat too many underripe mangoes, peaches, apples, etc my teeth will begin to hurt.

True, plus Dates have decent amount of B vitamins, magnesium, Potassium and Copper.

 

[schultz]

he may do something similar with the chicken wings.

Does he prepare them by frying them? I sort of assumed he was making soup with them, in which case he would make the soup, put it in the fridge to cool it, then skim the fat off the top. I do this with oxtail as the fat gives off flavours. I think it's standard practice in the culinary world, and I've heard Ray mention that he also skims his soups.

I also remember somewhere that Peat said as long as the seed was not broken down you would not get any of the negative things it contained, PUFA, plant toxins, etc. Seeds are rarely digested in whole form, so if they are not chewed the worst that may happen is gut irritation, and that doesn't always happen if the seeds are shrouded in fiber. I think we may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater if these proven healthy fruits are forgone because of their seeds, which are not a problem if not chewed, in my opinion.

I agree. Someone asked him about blackberries specifically (possibly you since the persons name was David) and he said they would just go through you (like seeds normally do, and are supposed to do). A cooked tomato seed he thought would be irritating as it is very tender.

I eat whatever fruit I want, as long as it doesn't give me gas and it tastes good.

 

[Dave Clark]

This may be for another thread, but does anyone know if under ripe fruits/vegetables increases their oxalic acid content? You hear a lot of talk, mostly from the carnivore people, about the problems with consuming too many oxalates, which of course would come from fruits and vegetables. It's just another plant toxin to be concerned with if you strongly feel the need to not eat plants.