What's A Matta Wit Da Banana?

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Nov 26, 2013
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You asked why Ray Peat says bananas have serotonin. It's because bananas have serotonin. Not tryptophan, bodybuilders go after tryptophan. The serotonin might be little or much, it may or may not reach your intestine, but you don't know what concentrations it could reach in your lining once it gets there.

The present study was initiated following
a personal communication from
J. A. Anderson (1) that ingestion of
bananas produces an increased urinary
excretion of the serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine)
metabolite, 5-hydroxyin-
doleacetic acid. This observation was
reported recently- by Anderson, Ziegler;
and Doeden (2).


As a result
of these findings, we were encouraged
to administer large amounts of serotonin
to patients. It was found that at least
20 mg of serotonin can be taken orally
without any apparent physiologic effect.
 

tara

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Blinkyrocket said:
Ray peat says a high carb meal that isnt balanced with protein produces a buttload of serotonin (my words). So, obviously just a plain carb in certain situations can increase serotonin.
I'm not sure that a single banana as a snack between meals counts as a high carb meal, though I imagine a bit of protein with it would be better. Peat has said OJ by itself can be OK.
Baked banana with cheese melted over it?
Banana + milk smoothie?
Fruit juice jelly or chocolate (or coffee) milk pudding with banana chopped into it?
Banana custard?
Banana fritters?
 

Blinkyrocket

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Such_Saturation said:
You asked why Ray Peat says bananas have serotonin. It's because bananas have serotonin. Not tryptophan, bodybuilders go after tryptophan. The serotonin might be little or much, it may or may not reach your intestine, but you don't know what concentrations it could reach in your lining once it gets there.

The present study was initiated following
a personal communication from
J. A. Anderson (1) that ingestion of
bananas produces an increased urinary
excretion of the serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine)
metabolite, 5-hydroxyin-
doleacetic acid. This observation was
reported recently- by Anderson, Ziegler;
and Doeden (2).


As a result
of these findings, we were encouraged
to administer large amounts of serotonin
to patients. It was found that at least
20 mg of serotonin can be taken orally
without any apparent physiologic effect.
What necessarily does this study mean? Urinary excretion of a serotonin metabolite is good or bad? I'm guessing that it means the serotonin was metabolised and is therefore bad?
 

Blinkyrocket

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tara said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Ray peat says a high carb meal that isnt balanced with protein produces a buttload of serotonin (my words). So, obviously just a plain carb in certain situations can increase serotonin.
I'm not sure that a single banana as a snack between meals counts as a high carb meal, though I imagine a bit of protein with it would be better. Peat has said OJ by itself can be OK.
Baked banana with cheese melted over it?
Banana + milk smoothie?
Fruit juice jelly or chocolate (or coffee) milk pudding with banana chopped into it?
Banana custard?
Banana fritters?
I wonder what cooked banana tastes like cuz another thread said it can help with chitinase and starch.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
Blinkyrocket said:
tara said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Ray peat says a high carb meal that isnt balanced with protein produces a buttload of serotonin (my words). So, obviously just a plain carb in certain situations can increase serotonin.
I'm not sure that a single banana as a snack between meals counts as a high carb meal, though I imagine a bit of protein with it would be better. Peat has said OJ by itself can be OK.
Baked banana with cheese melted over it?
Banana + milk smoothie?
Fruit juice jelly or chocolate (or coffee) milk pudding with banana chopped into it?
Banana custard?
Banana fritters?
I wonder what cooked banana tastes like cuz another thread said it can help with chitinase and starch.
Quite different than raw, and also delicious.
 
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Messages
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Blinkyrocket said:
Such_Saturation said:
You asked why Ray Peat says bananas have serotonin. It's because bananas have serotonin. Not tryptophan, bodybuilders go after tryptophan. The serotonin might be little or much, it may or may not reach your intestine, but you don't know what concentrations it could reach in your lining once it gets there.

The present study was initiated following
a personal communication from
J. A. Anderson (1) that ingestion of
bananas produces an increased urinary
excretion of the serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine)
metabolite, 5-hydroxyin-
doleacetic acid. This observation was
reported recently- by Anderson, Ziegler;
and Doeden (2).


As a result
of these findings, we were encouraged
to administer large amounts of serotonin
to patients. It was found that at least
20 mg of serotonin can be taken orally
without any apparent physiologic effect.
What necessarily does this study mean? Urinary excretion of a serotonin metabolite is good or bad? I'm guessing that it means the serotonin was metabolised and is therefore bad?

It means it went from the stomach to the bladder :cool: also the "banana" is not exactly "natural", it's a cloned tree. And it's dying. Oranges are also pretty man-made and they're also going extinct.
 

Blinkyrocket

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tara said:
Blinkyrocket said:
tara said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Ray peat says a high carb meal that isnt balanced with protein produces a buttload of serotonin (my words). So, obviously just a plain carb in certain situations can increase serotonin.
I'm not sure that a single banana as a snack between meals counts as a high carb meal, though I imagine a bit of protein with it would be better. Peat has said OJ by itself can be OK.
Baked banana with cheese melted over it?
Banana + milk smoothie?
Fruit juice jelly or chocolate (or coffee) milk pudding with banana chopped into it?
Banana custard?
Banana fritters?
I wonder what cooked banana tastes like cuz another thread said it can help with chitinase and starch.
Quite different than raw, and also delicious.
Hmmmmmmm, I shall try this sometime :)
 

Blinkyrocket

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Such_Saturation said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Such_Saturation said:
You asked why Ray Peat says bananas have serotonin. It's because bananas have serotonin. Not tryptophan, bodybuilders go after tryptophan. The serotonin might be little or much, it may or may not reach your intestine, but you don't know what concentrations it could reach in your lining once it gets there.

The present study was initiated following
a personal communication from
J. A. Anderson (1) that ingestion of
bananas produces an increased urinary
excretion of the serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine)
metabolite, 5-hydroxyin-
doleacetic acid. This observation was
reported recently- by Anderson, Ziegler;
and Doeden (2).


As a result
of these findings, we were encouraged
to administer large amounts of serotonin
to patients. It was found that at least
20 mg of serotonin can be taken orally
without any apparent physiologic effect.
What necessarily does this study mean? Urinary excretion of a serotonin metabolite is good or bad? I'm guessing that it means the serotonin was metabolised and is therefore bad?

It means it went from the stomach to the bladder :cool: also the "banana" is not exactly "natural", it's a cloned tree. And it's dying. Oranges are also pretty man-made and they're also going extinct.
Banana and oranges... not natural? Great, so we've messed up fruit too, not just GMO grains anymore -_-
I wonder if the heirloom seeds website has banana tree seeds, probably the only way to get seeds from the real thing. Nope, they dont.
 
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Messages
7,370
Blinkyrocket said:
Such_Saturation said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Such_Saturation said:
You asked why Ray Peat says bananas have serotonin. It's because bananas have serotonin. Not tryptophan, bodybuilders go after tryptophan. The serotonin might be little or much, it may or may not reach your intestine, but you don't know what concentrations it could reach in your lining once it gets there.

The present study was initiated following
a personal communication from
J. A. Anderson (1) that ingestion of
bananas produces an increased urinary
excretion of the serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine)
metabolite, 5-hydroxyin-
doleacetic acid. This observation was
reported recently- by Anderson, Ziegler;
and Doeden (2).


As a result
of these findings, we were encouraged
to administer large amounts of serotonin
to patients. It was found that at least
20 mg of serotonin can be taken orally
without any apparent physiologic effect.
What necessarily does this study mean? Urinary excretion of a serotonin metabolite is good or bad? I'm guessing that it means the serotonin was metabolised and is therefore bad?

It means it went from the stomach to the bladder :cool: also the "banana" is not exactly "natural", it's a cloned tree. And it's dying. Oranges are also pretty man-made and they're also going extinct.
Banana and oranges... not natural? Great, so we've messed up fruit too, not just GMO grains anymore -_-
I wonder if the heirloom seeds website has banana tree seeds, probably the only way to get seeds from the real thing. Nope, they dont.

It sucks, wild banana is full of seeds :lol:
 
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The bananas could have raised serotonin in lots of ways in that experiment...
 
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Dean said:
Based on an estrogen in fruit chart that Danwich posted in another thread, the estrogen content of dates and other dried fruit is through the roof. Bananas are low.

Specifying is key when talking about foodstuffs. Notice on that chart, dried Apricot are much higher than fresh. Raw Carrot scores at 125, and cooked only 114, not much of a difference between some Date varieties and the raw carrot. Absorption of it? No one knows. That would take a lot of unethical testing on humans.

Chickpeas also vary on the score up there, and Peat has said “hummus in small amounts isn't nutritionally harmful.”

Dried prunes also score a whopping 363, and Peat has recommended prunes as a carbohydrate:

“Some of Peat’s favored fruits: Orange, cherimoya, longan, lychee, grapes, pawpaw, sapote, plums, prunes, tangerines, dates, cherries, well ripened watermelons, and apple sauce. - instagram.com/p/yU69QBBGqO/

Some grapes are pushing 100 as well. Who knew dates made Peat’s list?

The soya bean cooked at 17566. Ha. Sticks out like a soy thumb. With the common sense of knowing that there are people who consume decent amounts of soy and don’t get cancer, I don’t think worrying about the extremely much smaller amount that is in certain fruits is worth it, especially if you’re avoiding soy. But wait a second, if you’re consuming any chicken, you’re absolutely consuming some soy. And unless you have enough money to blow on 100% Organic Grass fed from birth to death beef, then you’re eating some soy, including the milk and cheese of the soy fed cow.

Dean said:
They don't register high in tryptophan (assuming you aren't going to eat 40 a day). So is it the starch that sets off the whole serotonin creating cycle that has him against da banana?

Meat is more serotonergic than starch for a couple reasons. First, meat is extremely high in tryptophan, and as Peat says, if not balanced with glycine at the same time of consumption as to ensure an even release of all of the amino acids at the same time in the blood, then it is very likely to be converted into serotonin instead of niacin. Second, meat, for some, can be much more rough on the intestinal tract. Like Peat said, anything that rubs and scratches against the gut line will cause the release of serotonin. That's different than “starches that resist quick digestion.”

Dean said:
What are other fruit options, preferably something that goes good with milk that aren't going to add to the liquid load? Cooked apples, I guess.

The biggest conspiracy against healthy eating; the inconvenient truth that ripe, sweet, organic, non-stressed, tropical fruit is extemely difficult to obtain. Imagine if fruit was available on every corner like Mcdonalds is. I'm talking about the whole spectrum. Look up the thousands of tropical fruits and it will make you sad that you may never taste them. Even for people who travel to Thailand, like this guy who bought a whole bag of the elusive Mangosteen, only to find that only about 30% of it was edible. And that's in Thailand. Thats in the tropics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOIrg_y13lo

As far as the whole "bananas are an industrial stressed food" thing, well, that goes for every single thing we eat. The whole food system is stressed and industrial. There's not much of a difference between an industrial cow or chicken and a banana. Unless you hunt and gather in the wild, your food is apart of the same chain. Peat has said "The ocean isn't the safest food source anymore." (audio interview)

You need to get your carbohydrate calories from somewhere. I choose very ripe banana as one of those sources. They go well with cherry or papaya in a smoothie.

"There is no perfect food; each comes with give and take. When eating for health, savvy eaters choose foods that give the most and take away the least." - Rob Turner
 
OP
D

Dean

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That's the first list of Peat approved fruits I've seen that includes dates. I know a lot of "peaters" eat them. There was a guy here a year or so ago who was a big proponent of them.

Yeah, I can't agree more about the compromised food supply, but as someone who has bought and eaten mangosteens (and other tropical fruit) in SE Asia--including Thailand, they have it much better than we do. Never had anywhere near that kind of inedible rate with fruit bought directly from a market there.

I guess it comes down to making the best "least worse" choices, which is I guess what I was getting at with my original post. I suppose it's all individual; but it would be nice to here people's experiences with eating bananas while "peating."
 

4peatssake

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I just re-introduced bananas back into my diet.
I like them in fruit smoothies but stopped eating them 2 yrs ago when I found RP.

I've noticed a marked increase in mucus formation since re-introducing them a few days ago so jury is still out for me.
 

Blinkyrocket

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4peatssake said:
I just re-introduced bananas back into my diet.
I like them in fruit smoothies but stopped eating them 2 yrs ago when I found RP.

I've noticed a marked increase in mucus formation since re-introducing them a few days ago so jury is still out for me.
What does mucus formation mean?
 

4peatssake

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Blinkyrocket said:
4peatssake said:
I just re-introduced bananas back into my diet.
I like them in fruit smoothies but stopped eating them 2 yrs ago when I found RP.

I've noticed a marked increase in mucus formation since re-introducing them a few days ago so jury is still out for me.
What does mucus formation mean?
Congestion. In my case in both sinus and throat.
 
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Yeah with our cloned seedless burgers and buffalo wings, truly the same :cool:
 
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Such_Saturation said:
Yeah with our cloned seedless burgers and buffalo wings, truly the same :cool:

Seedless doesn't apply there because one is a plant, the other two are animals. But, in the context of industrial stressed food, both of plant and animal origin, yes, beef and chicken just ain't what they use to be. The billions bred every year far too lost from their species of birth, the Aurochs, lingers in the distant past. Just as the banana is unnaturally forced to grow, the cattle is too, by, with the numbers since we started doing it, trillions. Super duper unnatural. There's got to be something going on there. Enzymes? Genes? DNA? When it comes to the mini modern dinosaur, chicken is one of the highest sources of estrogenic things called Phthalates:

"Phthalates are a family of chemicals used in plastics and many other products. Phthalates are a group of chemicals used to soften and increase the flexibility of plastic and vinyl. Polyvinyl chloride is made softer and more flexible by the addition of phthalates. Phthalates are used in hundreds of consumer products."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 18-998.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2920922/

"The findings from our study suggest that there is an association between dietary consumption of certain food types and levels of chemical contaminants measured in the NHANES study population. Poultry consumption was significantly associated with creatinine-adjusted DEHP metabolites MEHP, MEHHP, MEOHP, and MECPP as well as high-molecular-weight phthalate metabolites. Additionally, the finding that egg consumption is significantly associated with levels of MEHP suggests that chickens themselves may be contaminated with phthalates and that food is not being contaminated just through packaging and processing."

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... /e122.full

And when it comes to beef, don't forget about that tasty pink slime that keeps popping up. Even Peat wrote about the problems with today's beef, and once talked about the deliberate injection of things like that nasty carrageenan in beef:

"The deliberate "aging" of meat is something that the meat scientists often write about, but it has a peculiar history, and is practiced mainly in the English speaking cultures. When a supermarket in Mexico City began selling U.S.-style meat for the American colony, I got some T-bone steaks and cooked them for some of my Mexican friends. The meat wasn't water-logged (it was 1962, and the beef had been grown in Mexico), but it had been aged for the American customers, and though my friends ate the steaks for the sake of politeness, I could see that they found it difficult." - RP

"(Grass-fed organic beef fresh from a local farm would be a reasonable choice.) Unfortunately, the meat industry has maximized all of those dangers, just for the increased weight of their product." - RP

I have a hunch that 99.9% of people on nutrition forums are not exactly getting all of their meat grass-fed organic beef fresh from a local farm style.

Aurochs model compared to modern cattle, it's like a seedless banana! :D
14y1u6d.jpg
 

Zachs

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Almost nothing in my diet is a "stressed industrial" food. I buy my meat from a local grass-fed farmer, eggs and goat milk from another who is 100% organic and raw. I buy most of any greens, carrots and berries that I buy from local farms. In fact, lately, everything I have eaten besides some awesome cotton candy grapes and some watermelon has been local and sustainably produced.
 

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