What's A Matta Wit Da Banana?

Dean

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If you are up against the wall on liquid intake and needing density, how detrimental is going with a few bananas a day? Based on an estrogen in fruit chart that Danwich posted in another thread, the estrogen content of dates and other dried fruit is through the roof. Bananas are low.

Peat says to avoid bananas because of serotonin. They don't register high in tryptophan (assuming you aren't going to eat 40 a day). So is it the starch that sets off the whole serotonin creating cycle that has him against da banana? Would a couple really ripe bananas a day be so bad that it would be better to add more sucrose to my liquid to get the calories I need? Would one of the safe starches be better than eating a few ripe bananas a day?

What are other fruit options, preferably something that goes good with milk that aren't going to add to the liquid load? Cooked apples, I guess.
 

Nicholas

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thanks for the reminder to try out really ripe bananas and see how i feel. i'm needing some more fruit options, too. cooked bananas would even be nice. i think the biggest rule that anyone can take away from Peat when it comes to choosing your foods is to "perceive, think, and act". also, not that it proves anything for us individually - but think about all the bananas that are consumed worldwide in a day. it seems to always take up the biggest chunk of space in the produce section, too. i don't believe anymore that large trends like this happen accidentally but rather point to some kind of intuition and craving people have. you can't say the same about the trend in PUFA being put in everything because it's always in a concoction of ingredients which can trick the mind. i think that serotonin production is related to much more than isolated food choices - i think it has to do with your metabolic function as well as how you balance foods.
 

Blinkyrocket

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I hope someone gives a good explanation for this as well, seeing as the banana is my absolute favorite fruit, I could eat 10 of those a day, no joke.
 

BastiFuntasty

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Ray has mentioned that Bananas grow up under a very stressfull Situation for the Plants. That is why they build protecting toxins. These can be found in the Banana. I just don't remember how he called the Toxin. Furthermore Bananas do not have an optimal ratio of calcium/phosphorus.

For me Peating with Bananas did not work perfectly. Oranges are the Bees Knees in my case :D
 

Blinkyrocket

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BastiFuntasty said:
Ray has mentioned that Bananas grow up under a very stressfull Situation for the Plants. That is why they build protecting toxins. These can be found in the Banana. I just don't remember how he called the Toxin. Furthermore Bananas do not have an optimal ratio of calcium/phosphorus.

For me Peating with Bananas did not work perfectly. Oranges are the Bees Knees in my case :D
So what if you lived in the tropics and grew your own banana tree and basically coddled it with the least stressful situation possible and supplemented calcium in the soil? (Idek of supplementing minerals in soil does anything but that's where the fruits get the minerals right?)
 

4peatssake

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Ray Peat says the problem is stress-induced chitinases.

Ray Peat said:
The two main classes of plant allergens are the stress-induced chitinases, and seed storage proteins, such as gluten. The chitinase allergens are responsible for reactions to latex (which is secreted by rubber trees in reaction to a wound), bananas, avocados, many other fruits and vegetables, and some types of wood and other plant materials. Intensive agricultural methods are increasing the formation of the defensive chemicals, and the industrialized crops are responsible for the great majority of the new allergies that have appeared in the last 30 years.

The presence of the chitinase family of proteins in humans was first discovered in the inflamed asthmatic lung. It was then found at high levels in the uterine endometrium at the time of implantation of the embryo (an inflammation-like situation) and in the uterus during premature labor. Since estrogen treatment is known to increase the incidence of asthma and other inflammations, the appearance of chitinase also in the uterus in estrogen dominated conditions is interesting, especially when the role of estrogen in celiac disease (in effect an allergy to gluten) is considered. Celiac disease is more prevalent among females, and it involves the immunological cross-reaction to an antigen in the estrogen-regulated transglutaminase enzyme and the gluten protein. The (calcium-regulated) transglutaminase enzyme is involved in the cross-linking of proteins in keratinized cells, in fibrotic processes in the liver, and in cancer. (People with celiac disease often suffer from osteoporosis and urinary stone deposition, showing a general problem with calcium regulation.)

This means that estrogen and stress cause the appearance of antigens in the human or animal tissues that are essentially the same as the stress-induced and defensive proteins in plant tissues. A crocodile might experience the same sort of allergic reaction when eating estrogen-treated women and when eating commercial bananas. :shock:
Source
 

Blinkyrocket

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4peatssake said:
Ray Peat says the problem is stress-induced chitinases.

Ray Peat said:
The two main classes of plant allergens are the stress-induced chitinases, and seed storage proteins, such as gluten. The chitinase allergens are responsible for reactions to latex (which is secreted by rubber trees in reaction to a wound), bananas, avocados, many other fruits and vegetables, and some types of wood and other plant materials. Intensive agricultural methods are increasing the formation of the defensive chemicals, and the industrialized crops are responsible for the great majority of the new allergies that have appeared in the last 30 years.
The presence of the chitinase family of proteins in humans was first discovered in the inflamed asthmatic lung. It was then found at high levels in the uterine endometrium at the time of implantation of the embryo (an inflammation-like situation) and in the uterus during premature labor. Since estrogen treatment is known to increase the incidence of asthma and other inflammations, the appearance of chitinase also in the uterus in estrogen dominated conditions is interesting, especially when the role of estrogen in celiac disease (in effect an allergy to gluten) is considered. Celiac disease is more prevalent among females, and it involves the immunological cross-reaction to an antigen in the estrogen-regulated transglutaminase enzyme and the gluten protein. The (calcium-regulated) transglutaminase enzyme is involved in the cross-linking of proteins in keratinized cells, in fibrotic processes in the liver, and in cancer. (People with celiac disease often suffer from osteoporosis and urinary stone deposition, showing a general problem with calcium regulation.)

This means that estrogen and stress cause the appearance of antigens in the human or animal tissues that are essentially the same as the stress-induced and defensive proteins in plant tissues. A crocodile might experience the same sort of allergic reaction when eating estrogen-treated women and when eating commercial bananas. :shock:
Source

So it IS the stress, more reason for me to move to the Philippines and grow my own bananas :D
 

Blinkyrocket

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Such_Saturation said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17808884

Serotonin 3.7 mg/banana (pulp)
Why can't I see the study? It only shows a link to resources.
 
OP
D

Dean

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alrighty then. so much for bananas. So if I can't handle anymore liquid from the watery Peat approved fruits and have gut issues, I presume I'd be better off with pure sugar rather than rice or potatoes.
 
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Dean said:
alrighty then. so much for bananas. So if I can't handle anymore liquid from the watery Peat approved fruits and have gut issues, I presume I'd be better off with pure sugar rather than rice or potatoes.

Why not sprinkle some fructose powder on potatoes? Mmm.
 
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Blinkyrocket said:
Such_Saturation said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17808884

Serotonin 3.7 mg/banana (pulp)
Why can't I see the study? It only shows a link to resources.

It's because you need to buy it or have a password. You have to buy information that you funded with your taxes.
 

tara

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Eat some whole fruit if want something to chew. If you can get pawpaw/papaya, I think they are quite calorie dense. They are expensive and rare here, but I occasionally splash out and get one for my fruit salad. Any fruit stewed with sugar. Tinned fruit in syrup. Various dried fruit. Honey. Chocolate. Turn some of the juice into jelly with gelatin and extra sucrose.

Bananas have their downsides, as above, but you've got to eat, so if you haven't got a better plan yet, you could try them and see how they work for you. I seem to do better with potatoes than too much bananas. I got quite averse to them when I ate a lot (3/day for weeks on end while pregnant), and now I just eat the occasional one.
 

Blinkyrocket

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Such_Saturation said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Such_Saturation said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17808884

Serotonin 3.7 mg/banana (pulp)
Why can't I see the study? It only shows a link to resources.

It's because you need to buy it or have a password. You have to buy information that you funded with your taxes.
That's incredibly stupid -_- is 3.7mg of serotonin really that much? And, if there's serotonin in bananas what other foods have serotonin in them too?

This came from Livestrong.com, they think serotonin is good obviously but still: Dairy
Eggs are protein rich and contain amino acids and essential fatty acids necessary to produce serotonin. Egg whites are ranked very high on the serotonin food list. Lower levels of tryptophan are found in milk and a variety of cheeses, according to Outofstress.com. Cottage cheese and yogurt are also good foods to eat to increase and maintain your serotonin levels.

(reference 3)

Fruits
Bananas, kiwi, pineapple, plantains, plums, grapefruit, mango, honeydew and cantaloupe have a high serum concentration, which makes them very useful in serotonin production. Tomatoes and avocado are also rich in nutrients necessary for serotonin to develop and reach optimal levels in the brain.

Vegetables
Corn, broccoli, cauliflower and green leafy vegetables such as spinach are serotonin-rich, as are baked potatoes with skin, mustard greens and mushrooms. Soy products, including soy milk, tofu and soybeans provide nutrients that help serotonin levels stay stable.
 
A

Anonymous

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This is ridiculous. If a banana is ripe and tastes good, you can eat 30 a day if you want to. Lol

But seriously, the benefits from the sugars and nutrients far outweigh any negligible serotonin amounts.
 

Blinkyrocket

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JRMoney15 said:
This is ridiculous. If a banana is ripe and tastes good, you can eat 30 a day if you want to. Lol

But seriously, the benefits from the sugars and nutrients far outweigh any negligible serotonin amounts.
Yeah, we need someone to somehow prove that the body's concentration of serotonin actually does anything when eating a banana. It's seeming more and more that somehow natural fruit is supposedly a bad source of sugar because all fruit contains some serotonin, orange juice might not have near as much but I think it does have some.
 

tara

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JRMoney15 said:
This is ridiculous. If a banana is ripe and tastes good, you can eat 30 a day if you want to. Lol

But seriously, the benefits from the sugars and nutrients far outweigh any negligible serotonin amounts.
You might be able to. Doesn't mean everyone can.
 

tara

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Blinkyrocket said:
JRMoney15 said:
This is ridiculous. If a banana is ripe and tastes good, you can eat 30 a day if you want to. Lol

But seriously, the benefits from the sugars and nutrients far outweigh any negligible serotonin amounts.
Yeah, we need someone to somehow prove that the body's concentration of serotonin actually does anything when eating a banana.
But what you need to know is whether it does you more good than harm or vice versa. And the easiest way to find out is to eat a few and observe.
 
OP
D

Dean

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how bout this...we find a willing person to feed a bunch of bananas and then we toss them into the middle of the ocean and see if and how fast they show symptoms of learned helplessness. what do you think? This wouldn't be as conclusive as if we had a lab rat do it, but measuring learned helplessness on a drowning rat might be too challenging.
 

Blinkyrocket

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Ray peat says a high carb meal that isnt balanced with protein produces a buttload of serotonin (my words). So, obviously just a plain carb in certain situations can increase serotonin. I mean, all you would have to do if you were really afraid of serotonin in the banana is have some taurine with it to also increase dopamine unless I'm mistaken, plus you could slow breathing or bag breathe, idk, but there's stuff you can do to counteract the bad.
 

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