Fruits Are A Bad Choice For Most People

[Tenacity]

Wrong.

In fact, Peat has even gone on the record to say that for those with digestive problems, starch should be ZERO.

I've experimentally proven this myself also. I can gain weight on a small amount of starch but eat a very large amount of sugar comparatively with no problems.

Wrong.

It depends on the context of the individual. Plums worsen my skin quality, potatoes improve it.

 

[Cirion]

Wrong.

It depends on the context of the individual. Plums worsen my skin quality, potatoes improve it.

Ok, but plums are not "all fruits" and potatoes are not "all starches". Potatoes are indeed one of the most benign starches, and maybe for you plums are one of the worst fruits.

So, perhaps I'll admit that some starches are better than some fruits, but as a whole, sugar is better assimilated than starch and on average starch aggravates endotoxin more than sugar.

Anyway, just quoting what Ray said, and my own experiences seem to jive.

That said, I do like potatoes too, they are indeed one of the more benign starches and provide some unique nutrients.

 

[tara]

I'm finding it impossible to hit the 4-5000 calories I need with these restrictions in place.

You don't have to treat any information you find as a restriction. You can use it to make informed choices from what is available to you, given your situation.

There are issues with food supply the world over.
That will take a lot of concerted work to improve, and is probably worthwhile.

Along with that, I'd suggest experimenting and find what works for you. You can find the ripest fruit available locally, wash it thoroughly to remove surface toxins, and see which ones agrees with you, raw or cooked.
You can try to avoid the seediest parts of some fruits. A lot of small seeds tend to pass straight through (if there are pockets in the gut, that may be problematic).

If starch causes you trouble, then that's an issue to weigh up. For me, I get less trouble with eating some well cooked spuds and other roots than with too much fruit - maybe because the fruit I have available is sub-optimal, but maybe because I run better on some starch than all sugar. I look for fruit in season that's ripe enough to taste good.

Yes, Ray emphasizes that people need to think for themselves, so following him very strictly without valuing your own opinion is not the right way.

+1

Ray actually, as far as I know, does not eat any starch ever other than the occasional nixtamalized corn and some turnips ...

Turnips have negligible starch, don't they? The carbs are mostly sugars (and fibre).

 

[Tenacity]

Ok, but plums are not "all fruits" and potatoes are not "all starches". Potatoes are indeed one of the most benign starches, and maybe for you plums are one of the worst fruits.

So, perhaps I'll admit that some starches are better than some fruits, but as a whole, sugar is better assimilated than starch and on average starch aggravates endotoxin more than sugar.

Anyway, just quoting what Ray said, and my own experiences seem to jive.

That said, I do like potatoes too, they are indeed one of the more benign starches and provide some unique nutrients.

Whether this is true or not, nobody eats 'starch' or 'sugar' (excluding pure table sugar, which isn't exactly a health food). People are eating specific food items, and the reaction to these are variable and depend on contextual factors. This is exactly what the OP was trying to say. What does it matter if sugar is better assimilated than starch if, in practice, all of the sources of sugar are low quality? If one is in a context where potatoes are of high quality and fruits are not, it's simply not correct to say that 'sugar is better assimilated than starch.' Such a statement assumes a vacuum, and none of us live in a vacuum. Such an interpretation of Peat's work seems to me to be driven by rules-based serotonergic thinking.

If you're sick but choose to consume unripe, low quality fruit over a starchy tuber because 'Peat said sugar is assimilated better than starch,' then you're missing the point of Peat's work entirely.

"Is optimal health from a cellular metabolic perspective achievable in today’s society with the lack of availability of optimal foods and with all the toxins and pollution in the environment?"

"If optimal means the best possible under bad circumstances, yes, otherwise, no. Optimal health requires optimal food, and a change of society."

I've been reconsidering my melon consumption because of this thread - I notice that it's very hit or miss whether you get a sweet, mushy one or a plain, starchy one. They come from Spain, so I suspect they're being grown improperly for shipping purposes. I think if you're going to consume fruit, it's probably best to consume it when it's native to ones own country and in season, or frozen at least. In the UK in September, that means strawberries and pears are on the menu.

 

[tara]

What does it matter if sugar is better assimilated than starch if, in practice, all of the sources of sugar are low quality? If one is in a context where potatoes are of high quality and fruits are not, it's simply not correct to say that 'sugar is better assimilated than starch.'

+1

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Used potassium chloride and citrate both caused gut discomfort, bloating etc

I see. But your diet seems rich enough in potassium, so you probably don't need to supplement it, especially if it gives you gut problems.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Turnips have negligible starch, don't they? The carbs are mostly sugars (and fibre).

I think so, just a couple of grams of starch, the rest is just sugar and fiber.

 

[Jasjeet]

how are grapes for most people? I love eating them with milk as a a snack, and find they give me good energy. However, not sure if they are too carb-heavy?

 

[ExCarniv]

how are grapes for most people? I love eating them with milk as a a snack, and find they give me good energy. However, not sure if they are too carb-heavy?

For most people grapes are good, I'd wash them very well and peel them if possible.

 

[MayaPapaya]

Based off of this correspondence with Ray, shared to the Yahoo groups taken from
Ray Peat Diet, Food Choices, And General Guidelines





Fruit is a bad choice for most people based on these writings. How is anybody supposed to know if the fruit they buy is tree-ripened unless they grew it themselves? Peaches, plums and apples are climacteric and ripen off the tree but this isn't good enough, they need to be tree-ripened and organic. Some countries don't even grow the safe fruits so even if they were confirmed tree-ripened - importing them is carcinogenic anyway!

Im not seeing any proof that cooking fruit removes all these negatives. Elsewhere Ray says that if you cook apples they still need to be ripe before hand. So I don't think cooking unripened fruit makes it 'safe' by Peat's standards.

Maybe if you found frozen fruit that tasted ripe and was organic it would be a good option, but thats been very hard to find in my case. I suppose fruit that is sold frozen is picked and frozen very quickly, so atleast you would know it was tree-ripened? the choices are very small, which is sad. When you consider starch as something potentially harmful (bad bacteria, weight etc) you don't have a lot of choices at all. I'm finding it impossible to hit the 4-5000 calories I need with these restrictions in place.

Some unripe(organic) fruits are less harmful when cooked:pears,apples, peaches,apricots...

 

[Luann]

For me, it's been an unconscious decision about wether to eat fruits

When they were only available imported through a supermarket, I almost never bought fruit because they hurt my teeth even when they looked ripe to eat

Now I live where they are locally grown and within days of being picked, and started eating them again because they are sweet and soft. not watery or tart.