Fruits Are A Bad Choice For Most People

Kray

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,850
I eat all types of fruits my thyroid is good, my hormonal profile is great, lots of energy, libido and great mood. Excellent digestion. Dunno some people might be sensitive I’m not. My opinion is that people takes rays work like the supreme ultimate law of everything. While not considering that ray might just be discussing some opinions losely of subjects he think is not optimal in our society. The link superstressed posts about rays own words is actually not rays own words it just links to another forum post where people design a diet and put words in rays mouth that this is how he eats. The link in the other thread does not even work anymore. On top of that ray eats most things once in awhile. Even fried chicken wings which is high PUFA. Im all for discussing rays ideas and all that. But when it comes to things like this I just feel super avoiding everything like you will get cancer and die from it is just unhealthy behavior. Humans are living longer than ever before. So if you live a healthy lifestyle that ray suggest you are likely protected. Stressing over not eating fruit or lots of other things in our modern world will likely kill you earlier, give you nutrient deficiencies or like the OP said not enough calories. Just my opinion though. But its a lot of compulsive OCD behavior on these forums but thats alright. Some of the best ideas come from it. But avoiding food specially fruit does not seem to be one
 

tygertgr

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
115
It is not especially difficult to get high quality fruit in America, but it is seasonal and not for sale at supermarkets. The stuff that makes it to the big box supermarkets is the dregs (everybody already ate the good stuff higher up the supply chain). For example, Paws-paws are delicious and there are a lot of them, but you'll never see them for sale because they all get eaten by the people growing them, or traded for tax-free services locally. If you want some you have to plant your own.

To get good fruit you mostly have to trek two hours outside the cities over the course of the season. Some urban family run specialty produce shops that refuse to sell junk remain, but they are much rarer than ten years ago. When I was a kid it was all old Italian guys who barely spoke English, but they're all dead now. My grandmothers bought in bulk and canned preserves every summer. This is probably still the best way to operate: drive to the farms, load up, can in mason jars. Dehydrating is another option, I suppose.
 
Last edited:

mostlylurking

Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
3,078
Location
Texas
Even people who have fruit trees pick pears, apples, peaches, etc. slightly green because if they don't then the birds and bugs will eat them all. I can successfully ripen peaches, nectarines, and pears that are purchased from the grocery store (usually takes a week). I'm in central Texas so maybe that makes a difference. Forget about the plums, they are so green that they never sweeten up and get ripe. I cook the apples and also pears until very soft (1 hour at 350). I do fine with very ripe raw pears. Works for me and I've had a very long history of leaky gut and many many food allergies; these things went away after I got my thyroid supplementation optimized (T3 is barely out of range on the high side but no physical signs of hyperthyroidism). PUFA really messes my gut up though so no eating allowed at pot luck suppers and restaurants. I stick with a glass of milk and maybe some orange juice. People look at me like I'm nuts but it sure beats the alternative.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
Monkeys don’t have exactly the same diet as Chimpanzee. Chimpanzees eat up to 80% of their diet as fruit. Mostly figs, is what I’ve read. What I was trying to point out is that there’s a fair bit of PUFA in those figs regardless of what the digestive capabilities of these animals are. Chimpanzees are a close relative of ours and they do eat fruit deemed by Ray as not being ideal for us humans yet, as it happens, Chimps eat a whole lot of figs and have very low incidence of cancer. According to OP’s quote re: Ray’s objection to fruits with small seeds ( like berries, figs...) is mostly about the PUFA and other carcinogenic substances contained in those fruit. My point is that I see an inconsistency here: I guess if you’re a Chimp you can safely eat pounds of seeded fruit everyday for your entire life and be healthy and cancer free, but if you’re a human, not so much. (According to Peat).
I see, so they are very different from gorillas then, diet wise.

I wonder if the chimpanzees chew the figs thoroughly or if they just chew once or twice and just swallow them. When I used to eat a lot of fruit, I recall just barely chewing it, same thing with cooked potatoes. If they don't break the seeds, then most of the toxins, including PUFA, should pass undigested.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
Does he prepare them by frying them? I sort of assumed he was making soup with them, in which case he would make the soup, put it in the fridge to cool it, then skim the fat off the top. I do this with oxtail as the fat gives off flavours. I think it's standard practice in the culinary world, and I've heard Ray mention that he also skims his soups.
I don't know if he fries them, but the only process to decrease PUFA that came to my mind at that time was frying something in safe fats to replace the PUFAs, but yes, I think that boiling the chicken wings in water and then skimming the fat off would work too. I usually see chicken wings as something to be fried or baked, but it's totally possible that he makes soup with them.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
@Rafael Lao Wai What are you eating for that white sugar? I can get it in my diet through iced latte's (or hot if you wish) milk chocolate, a bit of honey with greek yogurt, coke but after that im lost. I cant handle many fluids so it makes it harder. Ice cream is a possible option but fruitless icecream like Hagen Dasz Vanilla is so unappetizing in my opinion
I make simply syrup out of the white sugar and just add it to spring water, I may throw in some potassium bicarbonate and some ascorbic acid in conjunction with the sugar to make the drink more hydrating.

The only solution that I see right now would be to add even more sugar to your latte's and yogurt, and even adding it to coke can work, although it can make the coke bubble up a lot.
 
OP
SuperStressed

SuperStressed

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2019
Messages
275
I make simply syrup out of the white sugar and just add it to spring water, I may throw in some potassium bicarbonate and some ascorbic acid in conjunction with the sugar to make the drink more hydrating.

The only solution that I see right now would be to add even more sugar to your latte's and yogurt, and even adding it to coke can work, although it can make the coke bubble up a lot.
If I could find a candy without glucose syrup it would be perfect.
 

schultz

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
2,653
I usually see chicken wings as something to be fried or baked, but it's totally possible that he makes soup with them.

Well, now I wonder what he does... I think making a soup and skimming the fat would remove most of the fat. I assumed he made a soup because I assumed he was eating the wings for the gelatin, not because he like to eat bar style fried chicken wings. Skimming the fat would leave behind all the gelatin, and you could throw some greens in the broth as well.
 

Nemo

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
2,163
How is anybody supposed to know if the fruit they buy is tree-ripened unless they grew it themselves?

I grow about half of the fruit we eat. I've basically planted an orchard in the front and back yards on my 1/4 acre lot. The key is to plant three trees (or bushes) in the space where you would usually plant one. For example, have an early-ripening nectarine, mid-season nectarine, and late-season nectarine all basically growing as one tree.

You can also get fruit trees now where they've grafted early- and late-ripening branches onto a mid-season tree. Or do this yourself.

For most of the rest of the fruit we eat, I buy directly from the orchard. One of my favorites is Frog Hollow Farm (website froghollow.com) but there are a lot of organic orchards of this type around the country. They pick the fruit when it's perfectly ripe then ship it overnight or two-day.

When I pick fruit off my own trees, it lasts a month easily. Fruit in grocery stores must spend an awful lot of time sitting in hot trucks and warehouses to go bad in just a few days.

Fruit straight from the orchard is more expensive, but it's worth it. It's real food, full of real nutrition.
 

TibRex

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
189
I myself have stopped eating fruits for now and I've been eating the same amount of white sugar as before (400 grams a day), and I've been noticing great benefits: I no longer have any constipation at all ever, and I have 2 bowel movements a day even without magnesium( I still take magnesium anyway, because it makes me feel better overall). Cypro initially did this for me, but I think I was still ingesting enough inflammatory things to make this effect level off over time. I sleep better now, I seem to have more grip strength, bloating is reduced, gut feels nicer, etc.

I basically eat a carnivore diet with added sugar, zero fiber, zero fruit. I did increase my fat intake to make up for the calories, since I was getting around 200 grams of carbs from fruits and potatoes.

400 gm of white sugar a day? Seems like a lot to me ... does this not spike your BG ? Any chance you have T2D? Can't help noticing that WHITE sugar is mentioned here and elsewhere all the time. Does it imply that BROWN, unrefined sugar is bad? What about molasses sugar? I only buy and use the latter. Hope I haven't missed something ... care to elaborate?

Also, fruit generally contains both fructose and sucrose [and others too] in varying amounts - what you wrote here seems to imply fruit contains only fructose or that the sucrose in fruit is different from white [processed] sugar [sucrose].
 

TibRex

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
189
I myself have stopped eating fruits for now and I've been eating the same amount of white sugar as before (400 grams a day), and I've been noticing great benefits: I no longer have any constipation at all ever, and I have 2 bowel movements a day even without magnesium( I still take magnesium anyway, because it makes me feel better overall). Cypro initially did this for me, but I think I was still ingesting enough inflammatory things to make this effect level off over time. I sleep better now, I seem to have more grip strength, bloating is reduced, gut feels nicer, etc.

I basically eat a carnivore diet with added sugar, zero fiber, zero fruit. I did increase my fat intake to make up for the calories, since I was getting around 200 grams of carbs from fruits and potatoes.

400 gm of white sugar a day? Seems like a lot to me ... does this not spike your BG ? Any chance you have T2DM? Can't help noticing that WHITE sugar is mentioned here and elsewhere all the time. Does it imply that BROWN, unrefined sugar is bad? What about molasses sugar? I only buy and use the latter. Hope I haven't missed something ... care to elaborate?

Also, fruit generally contains both fructose and sucrose [and others too] in varying amounts - what you wrote here seems to imply fruit contains only fructose or that the sucrose in fruit is different from white [processed] sugar [sucrose].
 

SOMO

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
1,094
Blending fruits increases digestibility.

Starch is easier to digest than fruit.

We have enzymes to digest starch, but no enzymes to digest pectin, cellulose, etc.
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
I myself have stopped eating fruits for now and I've been eating the same amount of white sugar as before (400 grams a day), and I've been noticing great benefits: I no longer have any constipation at all ever, and I have 2 bowel movements a day even without magnesium( I still take magnesium anyway, because it makes me feel better overall). Cypro initially did this for me, but I think I was still ingesting enough inflammatory things to make this effect level off over time. I sleep better now, I seem to have more grip strength, bloating is reduced, gut feels nicer, etc.

I basically eat a carnivore diet with added sugar, zero fiber, zero fruit. I did increase my fat intake to make up for the calories, since I was getting around 200 grams of carbs from fruits and potatoes.

400 gm of white sugar a day? Seems like a lot to me ... does this not spike your BG ? Any chance you have T2D? Can't help noticing that WHITE sugar is mentioned here and elsewhere all the time. Does it imply that BROWN, unrefined sugar is bad? What about molasses sugar? I only buy and use the latter. Hope I haven't missed something ... care to elaborate?

Also, fruit generally contains both fructose and sucrose [and others too] in varying amounts - what you wrote here seems to imply fruit contains only fructose or that the sucrose in fruit is different from white [processed] sugar [sucrose].

Sugar spikes your BG if you don't eat anything else, but you want to pair sugar with protein.

Peat says protein and sugar is a well balanced meal.

White sugar is a supplement when no good fruit is available and you need energy.

I think 400g of white sugar is too much because you don't get any micronutrients that you get with orange juice for example.
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
Blending fruits increases digestibility.

Starch is easier to digest than fruit.

We have enzymes to digest starch, but no enzymes to digest pectin, cellulose, etc.

Meat/gelatin
Potatoes
Orange juice

The perfect meal for those who can digest starch well.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
I myself have stopped eating fruits for now and I've been eating the same amount of white sugar as before (400 grams a day), and I've been noticing great benefits: I no longer have any constipation at all ever, and I have 2 bowel movements a day even without magnesium( I still take magnesium anyway, because it makes me feel better overall). Cypro initially did this for me, but I think I was still ingesting enough inflammatory things to make this effect level off over time. I sleep better now, I seem to have more grip strength, bloating is reduced, gut feels nicer, etc.

I basically eat a carnivore diet with added sugar, zero fiber, zero fruit. I did increase my fat intake to make up for the calories, since I was getting around 200 grams of carbs from fruits and potatoes.

400 gm of white sugar a day? Seems like a lot to me ... does this not spike your BG ? Any chance you have T2D? Can't help noticing that WHITE sugar is mentioned here and elsewhere all the time. Does it imply that BROWN, unrefined sugar is bad? What about molasses sugar? I only buy and use the latter. Hope I haven't missed something ... care to elaborate?

Also, fruit generally contains both fructose and sucrose [and others too] in varying amounts - what you wrote here seems to imply fruit contains only fructose or that the sucrose in fruit is different from white [processed] sugar [sucrose].
Yeah, it's a lot of sugar, but I do well on that much.

I does spike my blood sugar, but it does so in a much more gentle way than starch or pure glucose. There is a graph from a study showing that sucrose is nearly half as insulinogenic as starch, given the same amount of calories.

haha no, I don't think I have diabetes. Although this is "common knowledge" in today's society, there is actually no evidence that sucrose causes or worsens diabetes, in fact, there is evidence of the exact opposite, that sugar is either unrelated or is beneficial when it comes to treating diabetes.

Ray has said that brown sugar contains residues from the sugarcane that can irritate the gut. Whether or not this irritation happens is individual, so if you're feeling good after consuming brown sugar, then it may mean it isn't a problem to your gut. I've tried brown sugar, but my gut didn't like it, I got bloated from it. The taste was excellent though.

Molasses are similar to brown sugar, in that they contain a lot of stuff from the sugarcane itself, way more than just sucrose. And molasses, due to having even more residues from the sugarcane, can be a more powerful allergen than brown sugar, but I would think that, if your gut is really strong, then it's likely a non issue.

Regarding fruit, yes, fruits contain usually sucrose( fructose and glucose bound together), free fructose and free glucose.

The sugar present in fruits isn't identical to white sugar, because white sugar is almost 100% sucrose, so there is no free sugars in white sugar. In many fruits that I have looked into, there is a significant amount of free sugars, although there is always some sucrose. Apples, pears, dates, apricots, prunes and watermelon are good examples. You can confirm this information on nutritional databases, such as selfnutritiondata.com or nutritionvalue.org.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
Sugar spikes your BG if you don't eat anything else, but you want to pair sugar with protein.

Peat says protein and sugar is a well balanced meal.

White sugar is a supplement when no good fruit is available and you need energy.

I think 400g of white sugar is too much because you don't get any micronutrients that you get with orange juice for example.
That much white sugar will likely cause nutritional deficiencies over time, unless you supplement things such as b-vitamins, vitamin C, as well as minerals, such as magnesium, potassium and calcium, which I do.
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
That much white sugar will likely cause nutritional deficiencies over time, unless you supplement things such as b-vitamins, vitamin C, as well as minerals, such as magnesium, potassium and calcium, which I do.


Yeah, supplement could be a good option, I do with Magnesium, but Potassium supplementation seems to cause some issues for me.

I try to get good amount of micros/minerals from milk, OJ, dates, honey, then supplement with white sugar to reach my energy requirements, when I choose to no eat potatoes.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
Yeah, supplement could be a good option, I do with Magnesium, but Potassium supplementation seems to cause some issues for me.

I try to get good amount of micros/minerals from milk, OJ, dates, honey, then supplement with white sugar to reach my energy requirements, when I choose to no eat potatoes.
What problems does potassium cause for you? Also, what form of potassium did you try using?

Those foods are quite dense in nutrients( honey might be an exception, since it's mostly carbs, but it's one of the best sources of boron, so I would consider it nutrient dense in that sense), so not much supplementation is needed with the white sugar, unless you use a lot of it.
 

ExCarniv

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
479
What problems does potassium cause for you? Also, what form of potassium did you try using?

Those foods are quite dense in nutrients( honey might be an exception, since it's mostly carbs, but it's one of the best sources of boron, so I would consider it nutrient dense in that sense), so not much supplementation is needed with the white sugar, unless you use a lot of it.

Used potassium chloride and citrate both caused gut discomfort, bloating etc
 

Cirion

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
3,731
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Starch is easier to digest than fruit.

Wrong.

In fact, Peat has even gone on the record to say that for those with digestive problems, starch should be ZERO.

I've experimentally proven this myself also. I can gain weight on a small amount of starch but eat a very large amount of sugar comparatively with no problems.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom