Acne, Fruits And Phytoestrogens

[Tenacity]

Usually when I consume enough fruit my acne symptoms vastly improve.

Recently my symptoms have flared up to an unusual degree. Life stress is lower than usual. The main dietary changes I have made have been replacing honeydew melons with dates, because I find the melon leaves an acidic mouth residue for a very long time, even with rinsing, and dates have a high pH level.

Acne is driven by estrogen, and dates have one of the highest phytoestrogen contents of any fruit, so I'm thinking that may be the issue.

I'm making this thread so that we can discuss our reactions to these fruits and to alert others with symptoms of estrogen excess.

Dan Wich posted a wonderful study looking into the phytoestrogen contents of fruit and vegetables, found here: Are Dates Safe?

I thought I'd organise the data within that study here, for culinary fruits only, going from highest to lowest in terms of phytoestrogens (where there are multiple varieties of a fruit an average will be given, unless there is exceptional variation):

Fruit | Phytoestrogen content (mcg / 100g)
Dates (dried) | 599
Apricot (dried) | 443
Fig | 389
Prune (dried) | 363
Pomegranate | 304
Prune (semi-dried) | 284
Blackberries (stewed) | 221
Dates (stoned) | 180
Yellow plum (cooked) | 152
Fig (dried) | 129
Gooseberries (stewed with sugar) | 121
Kiwi (skinless) | 111
Blackcurrant (fresh) | 109
Prune (cooked from dried) | 108
Greengage (stoned) | 105
Cranberries | 93
Raisins | 87
Prune (tinned in syrup and juice) | 75
Yellow plum | 72
Gooseberries | 72
Passionfruit | 71
Blackcurrant (tinned in juice and syrup, drained) | 69
Blackberries (fresh) | 57
Sultanas | 54
Apricot (stoned) | 53
Redcurrants | 47
Peach (stoned) | 43
Coconut (fresh) | 42
Strawberries (tinned in syrup, drained) | 40
Pineapple | 38
Orange | 36
Watermelon | 35
Grapefruit | 30
Lemon | 29
Cherries (stoned) | 27
Coconut (desiccated) | 26
Victoria plum | 26
Honeydew | 25
Nectarine (stoned) | 25
Apricot (tinned in syrup, drained) | 24
Satsuma | 24
Raspberries | 24
Mango | 20
Grapes | 19
Cantaloupe | 16
Pineapple (tinned in juice, drained) | 14
Sharon fruit | 11
Galia | 11
Orange juice (longlife) | 9
Strawberries | 8
Red plum | 8
Cherries (glace) | 7
Pear | 7
Apple | 5
Mandarin (tinned) | 5
Papaya | 4
Mango (tinned in syrup) | 4
Lychees (tinned in syrup) | 4
Banana (peeled) | 3
Peach (tinned in syrup, drained) | 2

Takeaways: Apples and pears, stone fruit, citrus fruit and melons tend to be the least estrogenic. Dried fruits tend to be the most estrogenic. Cooking seems to increase the amount of phytoestrogens in fresh fruit but decrease them in dried fruit. Tinned fruit also tends to have less phytoestrogens than fresh counterparts, but food quality may be a consideration. The fresh fruit with the lowest phytoestrogen content is the banana.

Fruit | Phytoestrogen content (mcg / 100kcal)
Fig | 525
Yellow plum (cooked) | 369
Pomegranate | 364
Blackberries (stewed) | 238
Dates (dried) | 215
Cranberries | 201
Apricot (dried) | 181
Kiwi (skinless) | 180
Blackcurrant (fresh) | 172
Gooseberries | 164
Yellow plum | 156
Prune (dried) | 148
Blackberries (fresh) | 132
Watermelon | 116
Apricot (stoned) | 110
Peach (stoned) | 110
Prune (cooked from dried) | 100
Lemon | 99
Honeydew | 96
Redcurrants | 83
Orange | 76
Pineapple | 76
Passionfruit | 73
Grapefruit | 71
Prune (tinned in syrup and juice) | 71
Dates (stoned) | 63
Nectarine | 56
Victoria plum | 56
Fig (dried) | 51.6
Satsuma | 50
Cantaloupe | 47
Raspberries | 46
Strawberries (tinned in syrup, drained) | 43
Cherries (stoned) | 42
Apricot (tinned in syrup, drained) | 37
Mango | 33
Raisins | 28
Grapes | 27
Strawberries |24
Pineapple | 23
Orange juice (longlife) | 18
Sultanas | 17
Red plum | 17
Pear | 12
Coconut (fresh) | 11
Apple | 9
Papaya | 9
Mandarin (tinned) | 8
Coconut (desiccated) | 3
Banana | 3
Peach (tinned in syrup, drained) | 2
Cherries (glace) | 2

Takeaways: Interestingly, when looked at on a per-calorie basis dates are not so bad (better than oranges, in fact)! Grapes also look like a much more attractive option. Everything in moderation.

I essentially doubled my phytoestrogen intake by replacing honeydew with dates. I'm going to swap dates out for another fruit and see how I go.

 

[bohogirl]

I suffer from cystic acne. I am able to eat dates. At one point I was eating tons of them, usually mixed in with plain kefir.

I also cook them a bit and eat them with my morning eggs.

Ohh and they're California medjool dates that I eat.

 

[schultz]

Usually when I consume enough fruit my acne symptoms vastly improve.

Recently my symptoms have flared up to an unusual degree. Life stress is lower than usual. The main dietary changes I have made have been replacing honeydew melons with dates, because I find the melon leaves an acidic mouth residue for a very long time, even with rinsing, and dates have a high pH level.

Acne is driven by estrogen, and dates have one of the highest phytoestrogen contents of any fruit, so I'm thinking that may be the issue.

I'm making this thread so that we can discuss our reactions to these fruits and to alert others with symptoms of estrogen excess.

Dan Wich posted a wonderful study looking into the phytoestrogen contents of fruit and vegetables, found here: Are Dates Safe?

I thought I'd organise the data within that study here, for culinary fruits only, going from highest to lowest in terms of phytoestrogens (where there are multiple varieties of a fruit an average will be given, unless there is exceptional variation):

Fruit | Phytoestrogen content (mcg / 100g)
Dates (dried) | 599
Apricot (dried) | 443
Fig | 389
Prune (dried) | 363
Pomegranate | 304
Prune (semi-dried) | 284
Blackberries (stewed) | 221
Dates (stoned) | 180
Yellow plum (cooked) | 152
Fig (dried) | 129
Gooseberries (stewed with sugar) | 121
Kiwi (skinless) | 111
Blackcurrant (fresh) | 109
Prune (cooked from dried) | 108
Greengage (stoned) | 105
Cranberries | 93
Raisins | 87
Prune (tinned in syrup and juice) | 75
Yellow plum | 72
Gooseberries | 72
Passionfruit | 71
Blackcurrant (tinned in juice and syrup, drained) | 69
Blackberries (fresh) | 57
Sultanas | 54
Apricot (stoned) | 53
Redcurrants | 47
Peach (stoned) | 43
Coconut (fresh) | 42
Strawberries (tinned in syrup, drained) | 40
Pineapple | 38
Orange | 36
Watermelon | 35
Grapefruit | 30
Lemon | 29
Coconut (desiccated) | 26
Cherries (stoned) | 27
Victoria plum | 26
Honeydew | 25
Nectarine (stoned) | 25
Apricot (tinned in syrup, drained) | 24
Satsuma | 24
Raspberries | 24
Mango | 20
Grapes | 19
Cantaloupe | 16
Pineapple (tinned in juice, drained) | 14
Sharon fruit | 11
Galia | 11
Orange juice (longlife) | 9
Strawberries | 8
Red plum | 8
Cherries (glace) | 7
Pear | 7
Apple | 5
Mandarin (tinned) | 5
Papaya | 4
Mango (tinned in syrup) | 4
Lychees (tinned in syrup) | 4
Banana (peeled) | 3
Peach (tinned in syrup, drained) | 2

Takeaways: Apples and pears, stone fruit, citrus fruit and melons tend to be the least estrogenic. Dried fruits tend to be the most estrogenic. Cooking seems to increase the amount of phytoestrogens in fresh fruit but decrease them in dried fruit. Tinned fruit also tends to have less phytoestrogens than fresh counterparts, but food quality may be a consideration. The fresh fruit with the lowest phytoestrogen content is the banana.

I essentially doubled my phytoestrogen intake by replacing honeydew with dates. I'm going to swap dates out for another fruit and see how I go.

The list should be by calories instead of grams.

 

[Tenacity]

I suffer from cystic acne. I am able to eat dates. At one point I was eating tons of them, usually mixed in with plain kefir.

I also cook them a bit and eat them with my morning eggs.

Ohh and they're California medjool dates that I eat.

Have you noticed any difference in symptoms between when you ate them and when you didn't?

The list should be by calories instead of grams.

Good thought, unfortunately the original study lists by weight. I suppose I could do some tinkering, but it'd take a while. Dates would likely end up even worse - they're a very high calorie fruit, as are most dried fruits.

 

[bohogirl]

Have you noticed any difference in symptoms between when you ate them and when you didn't?

Not sure. They might've actually helped my skin. But I didn't see that they contributed in any way to acne. I do remember actually eliminating them and adding them in with no additional acne. . I haven't been eating them a lot because the box I got has really soft ones, and I don't like the super soft texture with my kefir.

If I eat fried eggs I usually have two but I was eating a ton when I had good ones.

But acne has a lot of different causes...

I have to get better at charting food daily.

 

[beta pandemic]

lignans (most common PE) are highly inflammatory (systemic) in some individuals and can worsen or cause all types of skin disease-. which is why whole grains, beans/legumes nuts seeds are especially dangerous to some individuals

 

[Tenacity]

Not sure. They might've actually helped my skin. But I didn't see that they contributed in any way to acne. I do remember actually eliminating them and adding them in with no additional acne. . I haven't been eating them a lot because the box I got has really soft ones, and I don't like the super soft texture with my kefir.

If I eat fried eggs I usually have two but I was eating a ton when I had good ones.

But acne has a lot of different causes...

I have to get better at charting food daily.

From what I gather phytoestrogens are an issue for people with estrogenic symptoms because they prevent estrogen being taken up by receptor cells, so estrogen can accumulate and exert its toxic effect. I wonder if women have more estrogen receptors than men. That might explain why dates seem to affect me and not you - you can handle a higher phytoestrogen intake due to increased receptor density. Or maybe it has nothing to do with estrogen at all - who knows!

 

[schultz]

Have you noticed any difference in symptoms between when you ate them and when you didn't?



Good thought, unfortunately the original study lists by weight. I suppose I could do some tinkering, but it'd take a while. Dates would likely end up even worse - they're a very high calorie fruit, as are most dried fruits.

I meant estrogens per 100 calories of fruit instead of 100g of fruit.

So 36g of dates = 100 calories and 36g of dates has 216mcg phytoestrogens
165g of kiwi = 100 calories and 165g of kiwi has 183mcg of phytoestrogens
330g of watermelon = 100 calories and 330g of watermelon has 116mcg of phytoestrogens

Doesn't change the placement too much but gives another picture that's not so exaggerated.

 

[Tenacity]

@schultz I've updated the OP with a table that lists phytoestrogen content on per 100 calories. There did seem to be a huge change in the rankings.

Interestingly, when looked at on a per-calorie basis dates are not so bad (better than oranges, in fact)! Grapes also look like a much more attractive option. Everything in moderation.

I'll have to experiment with different fruits. Admittedly I get much more calories from fruit when I include dates in my diet. I wonder if keeping fruit calories high and phytoestrogens low(er) will be of benefit.

 

[800mRepeats]

@schultz I've updated the OP with a table that lists phytoestrogen content on per 100 calories. There did seem to be a huge change in the rankings.

Interestingly, when looked at on a per-calorie basis dates are not so bad (better than oranges, in fact)! Grapes also look like a much more attractive option. Everything in moderation.

I'll have to experiment with different fruits. Admittedly I get much more calories from fruit when I include dates in my diet. I wonder if keeping fruit calories high and phytoestrogens low(er) will be of benefit.

Thank you for making the list both ways.

 

[Tenacity]

Thank you for making the list both ways.

 

[EIRE24]

I'm not arguing why but if acne is caused by estrogen, why does most girls acne clear up when they begin to take the pill?

 

[Tenacity]

I'm not arguing why but if acne is caused by estrogen, why does most girls acne clear up when they begin to take the pill?

I say estrogen is a cause of acne based on this study posted by Haidut: Acne Is Likely Caused By Estrogen, NOT Androgens

If it is true that birth control pills improve acne (and I've seen many women actually say the opposite), it is possible that the synthetic progesterone opposes the synthetic estrogen's effects. Only the combined pill contains estrogen - the minipill contains progestin only.

That said I think it's likely that acne has many different pathologies between both men and women. In my own personal experience I have many symptoms of high estrogen and my acne does improve when I take anti-estrogenic supplements such as caffeine, aspirin and vitamin E, although I don't currently use the latter two.

 

[schultz]

@schultz I've updated the OP with a table that lists phytoestrogen content on per 100 calories. There did seem to be a huge change in the rankings.

Interestingly, when looked at on a per-calorie basis dates are not so bad (better than oranges, in fact)! Grapes also look like a much more attractive option. Everything in moderation.

I'll have to experiment with different fruits. Admittedly I get much more calories from fruit when I include dates in my diet. I wonder if keeping fruit calories high and phytoestrogens low(er) will be of benefit.

wow good job! Thanks :)

 

[schultz]

I'm not arguing why but if acne is caused by estrogen, why does most girls acne clear up when they begin to take the pill?

That's a good point. I shall pubmed it!

Edit: @Tenacity also had a good point about progestins in various pills

 

[EIRE24]

That's a good point. I shall pubmed it!

Edit: @Tenacity also had a good point about progestins in various pills

Ya it's something to consider and think about for sure. I'd love to know why

 

[Atman]

Dates have been eaten for millenia.
They can't be that bad.

Also, it's not a good idea to evaluate a food based on one hormonal factor.
There might be other substances present which mitigate the estrogenic factors (tons of sugar and potassium might be the most obvious ones).

Just eat them and see what happens. No need for chemical analysis.

 

[Tenacity]

Dates have been eaten for millenia.
They can't be that bad.

No, I don't think dates are a bad food to eat. They taste good, quickly bring up blood sugar and make me feel happy. But if a person reacts a certain way to a fruit, knowledge of its chemical content is valuable.

Also, it's not a good idea to evaluate a food based on one hormonal factor.
There might be other substances present which mitigate the estrogenic factors (tons of sugar and potassium might be the most obvious ones).

Just eat them and see what happens. No need for chemical analysis.

I agree with you on this. Self-experimentation will always remain vital in matters of nutrition. But again, the information is valuable. Observing a reaction to a food is one thing, understanding why is something different altogether.

 

[Ulla]

Ya it's something to consider and think about for sure. I'd love to know why

This is from book of Lara Briden - Period Repair Manual.
It is another idea...
Pills are bad anyway

 

[encerent]

Fruits I can get in the NW of the US are so, so bad, that I've had to cut them out. They absolutely shred my intestines. I stick to just OJ now and feel great. I snack on gummy bears, and coconut oil chips and tortilla chips.