Abandoning the Ray Peat Diet

[Such_Saturation]

Dan never posts, either

 

[Blossom]

Who all is somewhere under the raymbow? Would someone go find them please?

 

[Blossom]

Dan isn't under or behind the raymbow, I just spotted him here in random announcements!

 

[gretchen]

Good question. I'm sure some people have high-tailed it out of Peat-Land after initial weight gain.

This is what I should have done.

The idea that people should get well and move on reminds me of the plastic surgery boards I used to post on in the 2000s. We often discussed the fact that people left after getting their noses fixed.

Is this honestly people's view of Peat's ideas: implement them, get better, then get on with your life? What is this, a hospital?

I thought the suggestion was to "perceive, think, act" which lends itself to an ongoing, unfolding process, not a linear-type protocol.

Maybe some people leave the forum because they feel insulted by some of the posts. Many people healing really don't need to be exposed to all the 'fattist' statements. Is this really what people think Peat's work is about? Honestly.

What posts? I have not noticed fattist attitudes on this forum. RP does discuss it frequently in his articles, that is a fact. He doesn't talk about in a sociological type way, like what you hear in the media. There's no prescription for how to eat or live or any suggestions.

What's wrong with being interested in learning how to control your weight? Isn't what you weigh a factor in how you cope with your environment? Doesn't having mastery over it help you to achieve your best potential?

People are sensitive about weight, it's true. No one is telling anyone what to do or how to live though. It's just a discussion.

 

[Blossom]

Exactly! Sorry if I came across in a way I didn't intend to. I didn't mean that you in particular had a fattist attitude at all! It just breaks my heart to see people choose weight before health but I know each person can and should make their own choices. I've seen so many people unable to heal because they just couldn't stand to face gaining a few pounds even temporarily that it can be a real gut wrenching subject for me. I'm sorry again if my reply came across wrong gretchen.

 

[BingDing]

The way I think about it, though it might be overstating the case, is the skinny people in the Alzheimer's ward are not having any more fun than the chubby ones.

 

[Blossom]

The way I think about it, though it might be overstating the case, is the skinny people in the Alzheimer's ward are not having any more fun than the chubby ones.

Isn't that the truth! :1

 

[tara]

What's wrong with being interested in learning how to control your weight? Isn't what you weigh a factor in how you cope with your environment? Doesn't having mastery over it help you to achieve your best potential?

For people who can do this consistent with good health, it's fine.

But for many people, restrictive dieting for weight loss can result in worse health (and usually results in fat gain). For people prone to restrictive eating disorders, it can be quite dangerous - it can result in serious or catastrophic damage to health. Being healthy is generally better for having mastery over the environment.

I suspect that part of the reason that many people gain weight while trying some of Peat's suggestions is that they are coming from restrictive eating practices that have left them malnourished, and for some people, with reduced thyroid function or other damaged systems. Then they start eating to appetite for a while, and gain weight, because this is the normal (and often healthy) thing that happens when people stop starving themselves. For some people, gaining weight is a very good thing. Some people just need to gain weight to get up their own personal healthy set point, to repair damaged organs, etc. For other people, the stresses they have subjected their bodies to have predisposed it to gain a bit of extra fat, as an adaptive mechanism against future famines.

My impression is that when Peat has spontaneously mentioned weight- or fat-loss, it has usually been in the context of illustrating that some tactic has helped improve metabolism, not as an end in itself.

 

[charlie]

 

[Such_Saturation]

What's wrong with being interested in learning how to control your weight? Isn't what you weigh a factor in how you cope with your environment? Doesn't having mastery over it help you to achieve your best potential?

For people who can do this consistent with good health, it's fine.

But for many people, restrictive dieting for weight loss can result in worse health (and usually results in fat gain). For people prone to restrictive eating disorders, it can be quite dangerous - it can result in serious or catastrophic damage to health. Being healthy is generally better for having mastery over the environment.

I suspect that part of the reason that many people gain weight while trying some of Peat's suggestions is that they are coming from restrictive eating practices that have left them malnourished, and for some people, with reduced thyroid function or other damaged systems. Then they start eating to appetite for a while, and gain weight, because this is the normal (and often healthy) thing that happens when people stop starving themselves. For some people, gaining weight is a very good thing. Some people just need to gain weight to get up their own personal healthy set point, to repair damaged organs, etc. For other people, the stresses they have subjected their bodies to have predisposed it to gain a bit of extra fat, as an adaptive mechanism against future famines.

My impression is that when Peat has spontaneously mentioned weight- or fat-loss, it has usually been in the context of illustrating that some tactic has helped improve metabolism, not as an end in itself.

If Ray Peat ate tortillas fried in coconut oil and kept on shedding pounds, should he stop eating them for fear of veering from his healthy set point?

 

[Blossom]

What's wrong with being interested in learning how to control your weight? Isn't what you weigh a factor in how you cope with your environment? Doesn't having mastery over it help you to achieve your best potential?

For people who can do this consistent with good health, it's fine.

But for many people, restrictive dieting for weight loss can result in worse health (and usually results in fat gain). For people prone to restrictive eating disorders, it can be quite dangerous - it can result in serious or catastrophic damage to health. Being healthy is generally better for having mastery over the environment.

I suspect that part of the reason that many people gain weight while trying some of Peat's suggestions is that they are coming from restrictive eating practices that have left them malnourished, and for some people, with reduced thyroid function or other damaged systems. Then they start eating to appetite for a while, and gain weight, because this is the normal (and often healthy) thing that happens when people stop starving themselves. For some people, gaining weight is a very good thing. Some people just need to gain weight to get up their own personal healthy set point, to repair damaged organs, etc. For other people, the stresses they have subjected their bodies to have predisposed it to gain a bit of extra fat, as an adaptive mechanism against future famines.

My impression is that when Peat has spontaneously mentioned weight- or fat-loss, it has usually been in the context of illustrating that some tactic has helped improve metabolism, not as an end in itself.

Awesome explanation!

 

[tara]

If Ray Peat ate tortillas fried in coconut oil and kept on shedding pounds, should he stop eating them for fear of veering from his healthy set point?

I have not read anything from Peat that indicates that he is has ever been into restrictive dieting in order to lose weight. I have no idea what his healthy set point would be. If he has never restricted, and generally eats to appetite, it may well find itself. He seems to be pretty good at noticing which factors enhance his health. I'd be surprised if he would run himself down by starvation.

He has reported some fairly generous calorie intakes at times in his life, and he deliberately avoids getting hypothyroid, so I'm not too worried about him from this point of view. :)

 

[Such_Saturation]

If Ray Peat ate tortillas fried in coconut oil and kept on shedding pounds, should he stop eating them for fear of veering from his healthy set point?

I have not read anything from Peat that indicates that he is has ever been into restrictive dieting in order to lose weight. I have no idea what his healthy set point would be. If he has never restricted, and generally eats to appetite, it may well find itself. He seems to be pretty good at noticing which factors enhance his health. I'd be surprised if he would run himself down by starvation.

He has reported some fairly generous calorie intakes at times in his life, and he deliberately avoids getting hypothyroid, so I'm not too worried about him from this point of view. :)

I think in a way, we create a new setpoint each time we eat something. If that make any sense

 

[charlie]

I think in a way, we create a new setpoint each time we eat something. If that make any sense

Ha! Thats what I was going to answer to your previous question but decided not to. It would be forever changing.

 

[Jennifer]

Looks like this has been addressed, but since I just spent time writing this, I'll post my opinion anyway. :)

It just breaks my heart to see people choose weight before health but I know each person can and should make their own choices. I've seen so many people unable to heal because they just couldn't stand to face gaining a few pounds even temporarily that it can be a real gut wrenching subject for me.

I agree with you, Blossom. I've seen far too many people in my life and have read far too many stories of people's health being ruined in their attempt to lose weight.

This is not to say that there aren't plenty of people who lose weight in a healthy manner, but I feel there's a danger that comes with the belief that we somehow have to be better than who we are at this very moment. Couple that with a perfectionistic all or nothing attitude and nightmares can happen. These kinds of personalities will do whatever it takes to be perfect even if it destroys them. And the saddest part is they often succeed.

What's wrong with being interested in learning how to control your weight? Isn't what you weigh a factor in how you cope with your environment? Doesn't having mastery over it help you to achieve your best potential?

This is just my opinion, but I don't think mastering our weight has anything to do with our best potential. Sure, it may make us feel better in our skin and this can help compensate for when we don't feel too great about ourselves as a whole, but that doesn't change the fact that we already are our best potential. We wake up in the morning being our best potential and our heads hit our pillows at night being our best potential. It never goes away no matter how thin or how heavy we are.

Maybe instead of trying to adjust our weights, our time might be better spent in adjusting our attitudes towards ourselves? Maybe when we finally stop judging ourselves, we will then stop judging others. I think this is one of the best ways to bring down our faulty medical, pharmaceutical and diet industries. These industries are counting on us to not value ourselves. They are counting on us to be intolerant towards each other. This keeps all those systems going.

 

[charlie]

Jennifer, excellent post.

 

[Blossom]

Looks like this has been addressed, but since I just spent time writing this, I'll post my opinion anyway. :)

It just breaks my heart to see people choose weight before health but I know each person can and should make their own choices. I've seen so many people unable to heal because they just couldn't stand to face gaining a few pounds even temporarily that it can be a real gut wrenching subject for me.

I agree with you, Blossom. I've seen far too many people in my life and have read far too many stories of people's health being ruined in their attempt to lose weight.

This is not to say that there aren't plenty of people who lose weight in a healthy manner, but I feel there's a danger that comes with the belief that we somehow have to be better than who we are at this very moment. Couple that with a perfectionistic all or nothing attitude and nightmares can happen. These kinds of personalities will do whatever it takes to be perfect even if it destroys them. And the saddest part is they often succeed.

What's wrong with being interested in learning how to control your weight? Isn't what you weigh a factor in how you cope with your environment? Doesn't having mastery over it help you to achieve your best potential?

This is just my opinion, but I don't think mastering our weight has anything to do with our best potential. Sure, it may make us feel better in our skin and this can help compensate for when we don't feel too great about ourselves as a whole, but that doesn't change the fact that we already are our best potential. We wake up in the morning being our best potential and our heads hit our pillows at night being our best potential. It never goes away no matter how thin or how heavy we are.

Maybe instead of trying to adjust our weights, our time might be better spent in adjusting our attitudes towards ourselves? Maybe when we finally stop judging ourselves, we will then stop judging others. I think this is one of the best ways to bring down our faulty medical, pharmaceutical and diet industries. These industries are counting on us to not value ourselves. They are counting on us to be intolerant towards each other. This keeps all those systems going.

That's beautiful Jennifer. :1

 

[Such_Saturation]

Hell I'd get ripped just for the looks I'd get drinking dairy

 

[pboy]

ive actually found that I need to eat a good amount, like not just to get by, and have a lot of nutrition to never retain any water...it seems if I miss a meal or have consume weak things for a day or more I start notice water moving slower in my body. Im really starting to think overweight people are mostly retaining water moreso than even fat...and if anything, its pufa in the skin trying to be detoxed. But its really profound how Peat and Ling think that energy running through a system is what keeps its structural integrity correct. Im really noticing this to be absolutely true, and structure has mostly to do with caplillary and gut lining integrity, saliva, mucus and all that...and mostly, the ability to move water out

So almost any diet plan other than eat a lot of healthy dense food, or at least a slightly abundant amount to where you can sleep well...enough, you are actually on a plan to retain more water and gain weight, and lose the integrity of a lot of systems and structures of the body

and not to mention, even a little more pressure than is ideal on the nerves and vessels from retained water profoundly effects mental state

 

[Peata]

I try not to talk about my weight gain here more than necessary, partly because my dismay over it doesn't fit with what most everyone here seems to say. I am a 41 year old woman who is not trying to fit into any vanity size or ideal weight from my high school years or any such thing. I'm concerned first about my health. I am not someone who was malnourished before Peat. I was actually 5 - 7# over my normal healthy weight range. I was not stressed about that. But last winter I started gaining and was unable to stop. I thought it was any number of things, and experimented all year with various tweaks. Eating "more Peaty", at various times watching fat, calories, protein, fiber, etc. etc. Not all at once but trying many things. I got my weight to stabilize at more than 30# overweight. That was probably in May. I tried to accept the new bigger me, even though my clothes weren't fitting well, I started getting apnea and other breathing issues, worried about blood sugar, had cellulite, and no tweaks to diet or exercise budged a pound. Not one pound. I eat healthy, nourishing foods. Even at this overweight condition, I accepted it as much as I could (had to since I couldn't lose one pound), but I felt sorry for my body. I know my body, and I know this weight isn't right for it, or healthy. It's very much insulin resistance that medication, diet exercise and all the Peat stuff in the world will not touch. And in fact I started to gain again last week (edit: due to Cypro, which I address in another post).

Thankfully I have a new angle to explore -a sort of epipheny a couple days ago, so hopefully I can see some results and post about it later.