all this sugar/milk may have caused GERD/heartburn

yoshiesque

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Hey everyone,

I have had IBS for about a year now. It seemed somewhat settled with a low carbohydrate diet but I decided to do ray peat about 2 weeks ago. So I brought on all the OJ, fruits, milk and raw sugar (added into milk).

Now, I am getting symptoms of feeling some lump in my throat. I typically get it after eating. After doing some research into GERD, i discovered that GERD is often a cause of SIBO, and if you have SIBO, you really do need to limit sugars because it will just feed bacteria.

Not saying that RP diet is bad, I really do believe in it. But for someone who now might have SIBO, what can I do? There is plenty of credible research showing low carb diet/scd diet to work very well for SIBO, because it starves the bacteria.

But that means I cant do this RP diet. Do I switch away from RP diet for a while? or is there a way to do both?

Currently, I am now taking HCL supplements to assist with low acid production. I am also eating carrot salad 2-3x a day to help. I will be taking some proper tests soon with my doctor to diagnose SIBO for sure (breath testing).
 

jyb

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If I were you I'd start with milk only as the bulk, with a bit of coffee, coconut oil... Then gradually over time see what you can add. Milk has a lot of the essentials, including a minimum of sugar (lactose) if you drink a good amount.
 

Mittir

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I am quite confused here. 4 days ago in your first post, i commented that
acidity and pectin in OJ can be problematic for people with sensitive gut.
you mentioned that you do not have any problem with 1 liter of OJ but you
have IBS and now you are having GERD/heartburn. How do you know that
OJ is not causing this problem? Reaction does not have to be immediate,
sometimes people get reaction from foods after several days. I can eat acidic
for few days and then i start having acid reflux and i connect these two events.
When it comes to gut issue you really have to be very observant and keeping a
food journal can be very helpful. Milk is harmful if you can not digest it properly
and with milk this reaction is quite pronounce for most people.
 

John Eels

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I'm dealing with bacterial overgrowth. When it was most severe, I ditched milk and OJ for some time and relied on glucose as a simple sugar (not be confused with sucrose which is half fructose and half glucose). Glucose is most readily absorbed, little chance for it to exacerbate the situation. I ate a lot of meat which helps in stomach acid production. This was probably low at some time in your life and it contributed to bacterial growth. Haidut recommends taurine and caffeine to boost acid production. I supplement with high doses with caffeine (1000 mg). Steroid production is increased as well with caffeine. Taurine increased my stomach acid production but inflamed my gut, too. I stay away from it. I may experiment with it at some other time.

1. no milk or oj
2. rely on glucose for carbohydrates
3. eat nutrient dense food (meat, oysters, gelatine, eggs, liver)
(supplement magnesium. This is a tricky one. It's an alkaline mineral and reduces stomach acid. And you don't want that. Magnesium water is the best solution (magnesium bicarbonate): Milk of magnesia dissolved in seltzer water. 2nd best solution is epsom salt baths. You need 30min and a bath tub. 3dr on the rank: Magnesium glycine, as far as I learnt it's the least laxative for of magnesium.)

Later, when you feel better (improved metabolism) you may look into antibiotics (minocycline, penicillin). Mark Pimentel, author of A New IBS Solution: Bacteria-The Missing Link in Treating Irritable Bowel Syndrome recommends Rifaximin, an antibiotic that stays inside the digestive system (unlike the others mentioned). You find there is a lot of disagreement in the blogosphere on what's best to do (some cry out loud when you mention antibiotics, others swear by probiotics, and then are those who argue neither is necessary). Most will probably agree on the importance of high stomach acid production. And that's greatly influenced by your metabolism (and that is determined by thyroid and nutritional status). Circle closed.

(I have the suspicion that Peat is probably right again on the role of microbes. They are mostly a culprit (certainly in excess), and antibiotics are beneficial. See these very interesting posts for that matter: Antibiotics Can Slow Aging Process? Researchers Find Link With Longevity. And: Slowing the aging process - only with antibiotics.
 

pboy

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most people probably attribute basic irritants in common foods to 'having bacteria overgrowth' or 'sibo' or whatever...I think you probably don't have any of those, and you are simply reacting to one or a couple foods you are eating. As Mittir said, acidic fruits create burning sensations...and it takes a day or two to clear up entirely and you cant have more in that time. Its pretty obvious, the only foods (and im many years experienced) that create acid/burning feelings are actually acidic foods! (who would have thought) and strong spices. this includes tomato, tomato sauce...and OJ or course. Don't eat acidic food or spices for a couple days and your 'sibo' and bacteria overgrowth or whatever will magically disappear. The only potential problem with milk is lactose intolerance which you would have violent diareeah and there would be no question. The added synthetic vitamin A can be allergenic slightly, but that just manifests as skin eruptions, not GI issues. You would know if milk was a problem, there would be no question. Check your acid intake, its really simple...put it on your skin, it burns! So it does the same in body, you hold it in mouth and skin puckers and face braces like for an attack, same thing in gut
 

Mittir

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I want to add one thing about glucose and sucrose. Simple glucose will be
absorbed very quickly without causing digestive issue. Hypothyroidism can cause
SIBO by weakening digestion and slow peristalsis. Inflamed intestinal wall causes low
production of sucrase and lactase. One way to bypass the sucrase is to use
inverted sugar syrup, where heat and some acid can break down
sucrose into glucose and fructose. Eating simple foods that do not feed
bad bacteria and irritate gut can improve SIBO and thyroid function.

I do not know how reliable are those on line diagnosis of "Fructose Malabsorption".
I followed a low fructose diet for a long time and now i think it is the fiber in fruits
that causes problems not fructose. It is worth experimenting with sugar
syrup to see if there is any digestive issue.
 

aguilaroja

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John Eels said:
...
Later, when you feel better (improved metabolism) you may look into antibiotics (minocycline, penicillin). Mark Pimentel, author of A New IBS Solution: Bacteria-The Missing Link in Treating Irritable Bowel Syndrome recommends Rifaximin, an antibiotic that stays inside the digestive system (unlike the others mentioned)....

Thanks for the references and thoughts.

Rifaximin would be a sizable out of pocket cost, if the price was not covered by insurance. Web searches for U.S. prices seem to indicate the neighborhood of $24.00 PER PILL.
 

Suikerbuik

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All I have to add is. Observe your body, try different things and try figure it out.

I don't dare to say you're not having bacterial overgrowth while not knowing more about you (this is your first post I see). The prevalence of SIBO can actually be quite high (observed in, but not limited to, fibromyalgia, IBS, obese, organ failure, celiac disease). It is also found to be present in a small percentage "healthy people". Also interesting to note is that it can be asymptomatic. However on beforehand assuming you have SIBO based on heartburn is indeed not really founded. When my brother drinks to much orange juice he also gets a burning senstation.

Also, when something burns on your skin. This doesn't simply mean that it automaticaly does in the gut too. pH of the stomach itself is about 2. However the pancreas should make your stomach content alkaline when it passes, this organ is quite sensitive also for metabolic disturbances. But I understand your point pboy, many people can't stand too much acidity.

Reacting to irritants, it think is like a chicken and egg story. SIBO will make you way more vulnerable to substances in foods.
 

natedawggh

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I have recently been using Mucinex to suppress the white tongue bacterial overgrowth. The way it loosened it seemed to suggest it might disrupt biofilm. The substance is specifically called guaifenesin, and it also got rid of the chronic histamine reaction I was suffering from, which was probably also endoxotin related (apparently Mucinex's method of action isn't at all to loosen mucus, but thought to work through other means). It also has helped improve my bowel function, so it might aid you.

DO NOT buy the version with other medicines in it, as the cough suppressant is very toxic. Only the plain guaifenesin.

If this helps your IBS/SIBO, please post about it, as I don't know that I specifically had that and it'd be great to know if it helps.
 

narouz

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natedawggh said:
I have recently been using Mucinex to suppress the white tongue bacterial overgrowth. The way it loosened it seemed to suggest it might disrupt biofilm. The substance is specifically called guaifenesin, and it also got rid of the chronic histamine reaction I was suffering from, which was probably also endoxotin related (apparently Mucinex's method of action isn't at all to loosen mucus, but thought to work through other means). It also has helped improve my bowel function, so it might aid you.

DO NOT buy the version with other medicines in it, as the cough suppressant is very toxic. Only the plain guaifenesin.

If this helps your IBS/SIBO, please post about it, as I don't know that I specifically had that and it'd be great to know if it helps.

Very interesting, natedawggh!
I used to be married to a girl with constant sinus stuff going on
and she took a ton of guaifenesin.
Very familiar with it.
I took it for colds/congestion a few times and seemed effective
but never gave it any thought beyond that.
 
OP
Y

yoshiesque

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Hey guys thanks for all the responses! I really love the help I have been getting here.

First let me just clear up something, I have no symptoms of actual heart burn, where you feel the burning sensation in your chest. GERD has common symptoms like heart burn, regurgitation, and feeling a lump in ur throat. So far I have only the lump in throat feeling and occasionally regurgitation.

This only started after experimenting with this high sugar/milk diet. In relation to orange juice being acidic for me, I dont know if thats the issue.

There is a great source of information saying that GERD is really due to a lack of acid rather than too much (this is where western medicine has got it wrong), SIBO and in some cases muscular issues that open up the esophagus. Many people who have switched from antacids to acid supplements (HCL) has reported immediately relief. A test to see if you have low stomach acid can be done where you take HCL capsules at meal time, and increase the capsules you take each day until you feel the burning. So far I am on 3 capsules and I still feel no burning. That means stomach acid is already low.

I am going to get tested for SIBO soon, to see if it really is a problem. But its this lump in the throat that I get after I eat that is the issue. I never had it before.

I have cut OJ out, and will cut milk out too. Hopefully it does something. But somehow I feel like my IBS (which is diarrhea + gas as symptoms) has lead to me now having SIBO & GERD.

there is a great site called siboinfo.com, where proven research shows how antibiotics help, low carb diet (oh god, dont wanna go back to this) and probiotics like home made yoghurt. It works, but it does go against the peat way. Im thinking that during these situations, it might better to temporarily go away from peat until you have fixed your health issues.

Also, I have never in my life had an issue with OJ or milk. maybe 5 years ago after having a pretty bad flu and going on antibiotics, i became lactose intolerant. So now im experimenting with milk. But IBS came about one year ago and it was VERY evident that it was from traumatic stresses in my life.
 

pboy

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are you adding coconut oil, butter, or some other fat to thing? fat slows gastric emtpything and with such high volume of liquid on the peat protocol its an issue that easily can happen. Added fats alone can give GI problems in many cases. I have no idea about your gastric acid, but taking supplements and probiotics to fix it isn't getting at the root at all, and I don't think it would help to be honest

something like OJ should empty within 15 minutes, but if theres even a bit of fat it will slow down to like an hour, or more sometimes...so then you feel the acids
right under your throat
 
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There is a great source of information saying that GERD is really due to a lack of acid rather than too much (this is where western medicine has got it wrong), SIBO and in some cases muscular issues that open up the esophagus. Many people who have switched from antacids to acid supplements (HCL) has reported immediately relief.

Hey all! Since this is the Peat forum, I just wanted to ask if anyone with the so-called conditions "GERD" or "SIBO" (or perhaps lack of stomach acid) has considered whether Peat is right and you simply have a metabolic disorder (i.e., a condition caused by low CO2 level in your blood)?

If the lack of stomach acid is linked to a metabolic disorder (as Peat seems to think it is), then increasing CO2 in your blood should relieve your symptoms, by resolving your underlying metabolic disorder. The more CO2 you have in your blood, the more stomach acid you will be able to produce. Conversely, the less CO2 you have, the less stomach acid you are able to produce.

In the short term, the most immediate way to increase CO2 in your blood is (obviously) carbon dioxide therapy that, by simply increasing the CO2 level in the venous blood in your lungs, immediately allows your arterial blood to achieve a higher CO2 level.

In the longer term, Peat's familiar ideas are that you need to improve the redox balance of your cells, by using niacinamide, thyroid, progesterone and DHEA (in doses that are subdivided through the day). It's also crucial, In the longer term, to select a diet that minimizes intestinal inflammation and unsaturated fat.

Of course, if you have low stomach acid that does result from a metabolic disorder, then you may be likely to have other health issues that are less noticeable, but perhaps more troubling, such as hyperventilation or asthma, osteoporosis and iron overload*.

Takeaway: Please don't think you can fix your metabolic disorder by eliminating orange juice, avoiding milk, taking HCL, or any other quick fix suggested by legions of "conmen and quacks" (Peat's phrase). If you have frequent heartburn, or digestive issues, your body may be trying to tell you something very important about your underlying metabolism. Please listen and take care. Heartburn may be aptly named?

*For example, the study entitled "The chemical reactions in the human stomach and the relationship to metabolic disorders" claims that, "...some of chemical compounds produced in the stomach can induce conditions such as asthma and that the conditions of osteoporosis and hemochromatosis can be linked to the function of the stomach."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15823700
 

Suikerbuik

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Seem like an interesting paper, but this poor abstract leaves me with many open questions. You have a full text?
 

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