A Wish For More Energy

[Ben.]

Body weight alone is primarily driven by caloric intake.

Only in healthy people.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Just started a 72h dry fast as an experiment, this will be my first one. I do not plan to do this regularly.
@LLight

 

[LLight]

Just started a 72h dry fast as an experiment, this will be my first one. I do not plan to do this regularly.
@LLight

72h seems a bit ambitious if it's your really first time but you'll see how far you get ?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

72h seems a bit ambitious if it's your really first time but you'll see how far you get ?

I over-estimated myself. I stopped at 14hrs because I was hungry and feeling very cold, my body temperature dropped.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Roddy who's in his mid 30s and needs thyroid, aspirin, steroids and vitamin D to function at altitude in Mexico? Georgi who's overweight and bald? How do you know they don't have fatty livers and are just self medicating to negate the damage they're doing? either way, YOU have liver issues so focus on that. I'm been exploring the Anti-vitamin A stuff for a month so I certainly don't have the answers but as some of your issues mirrored mine its worth looking at. I'm pretty sure Grant Genereux's Anti-Vitamin A thread is the most commented post on this forum, think why that might be on a Ray Peat forum. Grants books are worth reading, especially his first - My eBooks

This is good also from @Tarmander

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7e6WeEZWIc

Going to listen to that one.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZRXKXvsz_A

 

[LLight]

I over-estimated myself. I stopped at 14hrs because I was hungry and feeling very cold, my body temperature dropped.

Even if you probably won't do it again soon : it seems like the body acquires the capacity to go longer the more you do it. 14h is already not an easy feat.

I'm rarely cold when I fast but fatigue can set it quickly. Hunger is rarely an issue too.

Fluid restriction might be easier for some (if you don't go too far, there is no fatigue). There was someone on this forum who did it and got good results as he likely reversed his metabolic syndrome. Personnaly, I can do it without too much effort but I do not necessarily get such good results. I think it's because my body isn't (wasn't) able to produce enough vasopressin/oxytocin (which should be produced during fluid/water restriction). My hope is that my prolonged dry fast has reset that.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@TheCalciumCad @youngsinatra
I am watching this video on the symptoms of Vit. A toxicity and I don't tick almost any of it:
- nausea, headaches, vomiting. Almost never have this
- blurred vision(this, I've experienced lately, my long-distance vision has worsened)

He also says that Triglycerides, Alkaline Phosphatase, cholesterol, AST/ALT, Bilirubin, among others, are usually elevated in the case of Vit. A toxicity.
I only have elevated cholesterol, and ALT/ AST. The others are in normal range.


View: https://youtu.be/Zl_0L0aJPRk

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Garrett Smith‘s approach is very good and it‘s not just for vitamin A toxicity.
It‘s fundamentally about fixing stagnant bile (cholestasis) which is the root of (almost) all liver issues. Bile is like the poop of the liver, it is supposed to get out of your body, because it’s full of toxins. When the liver cannot get bile out of the system (either by impaired bile secretion or enterohepatic re-absorption) it makes the liver accumulate all kinds of toxins / LIPIDS(!) / hormonal and metabolic byproducts.

I was looking over the latest blood test that me gastroenterologist had me do, and this caught my attention:

Gamma-glutamyl transferase or Gamma GT (GGT) is an enzyme found predominantly in the liver. The blood level of GGT increases if the liver becomes injured or if the bile ducts become obstructed affecting the flow of bile. Therefore, GGT is a good biomarker for detecting liver disease and bile duct injury

 

[TheCalciumCad]

@TheCalciumCad @youngsinatra
I am watching this video on the symptoms of Vit. A toxicity and I don't tick almost any of it:
- nausea, headaches, vomiting. Almost never have this
- blurred vision(this, I've experienced lately, my long-distance vision has worsened)

I barely have any symptoms, tho I did get dizzy and was sick from having mango juice everyday for a week when I couldn't get OJ as mangos are way higher in vit A than oranges. My main issues are that hair loss (why I got into Ray Peat), vision, receded gums, erection quality/morning wood all got worse Peating aka high vitamin A intake. Erection quality has MASSIVELY improved and about 10 other things have got better from 5 weeks of reducing vitamin A intake, so even going down to 2000 IU vit A which isn't even that low was enough to start relieving symptoms for me.

This is a good list

The MEGA symptom list of Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity and DETOX symptoms

This list will be referenced to published papers, those will be at the bottom. For ease of use, I will be grouping the symptoms together as I see fit.IMPORTANT …

nutritionrestored.com

Ironically Masterjohn poisoned himself with Vitamin A


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Jn86UaFPc

 

[Nomane Euger]

I barely have any symptoms, tho I did get dizzy and was sick from having mango juice everyday for a week when I couldn't get OJ as mangos are way higher in vit A than oranges. My main issues are that hair loss (why I got into Ray Peat), vision, receded gums, erection quality/morning wood all got worse Peating aka high vitamin A intake. Erection quality has MASSIVELY improved and about 10 other things have got better from 5 weeks of reducing vitamin A intake, so even going down to 2000 IU vit A which isn't even that low was enough to start relieving symptoms for me.

Hi,were you exposing yourself to sunlight alot during this many years periods of eating a diet high in vitamine A?
how do you the benefits you experience these 5 weeks are due to lowering your vitamine A intake,and not other factors that changed during the same period?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

My main issues are that hair loss (why I got into Ray Peat), vision, receded gums, erection quality/morning wood all got worse Peating aka high vitamin A intake. Erection quality has MASSIVELY improved and about 10 other things have got better from 5 weeks of reducing vitamin A intake, so even going down to 2000 IU vit A which isn't even that low was enough to start relieving symptoms for me.

The hairloss and erection issues , I also have. But how on earth could a low Vitamin A diet be better for sexual function? Genereux's diet sounds like a low T/ pseudo-vegan diet.
This health puzzle is getting more and more complicated, it's exhausting.

One side praises Retinol, one side demonizes it.
One said Choline is required to clean the liver, the other side says choline is anti Peaty.
One side says Vitamin D and ascorbic acid are poison, the other side says the opposite.

And so on. Feels like I'm going from bad to worse, with no end to this agony.
What's the end game here? Eat a low Vitamin A for the rest of your life. Eggs are nature's multivitamin, it feels so wrong avoiding them. And never eating dairy/ calcium again?

@youngsinatra How does the MTHFR theory relate to Genereux theory?

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Hi,were you exposing yourself to sunlight alot during this many years periods of eating a diet high in vitamine A?
how do you the benefits you experience these 5 weeks are due to lowering your vitamine A intake,and not other factors that changed during the same period?

I get relatively little sunlight and live in England which isn't great tho use incandescents on evenings. At the same time as I began reducing vit A intake I stopped taking vitamin D/K, taurine, niacinamide and aspirin and just take selenium, magnesium oil and zinc now. I also reduced my coffee intake from 4-5x daily to 2. My vit A intake is down from 11,000 IU average daily down to 2000 IU currently, after eating the exact same way for 4years.

The hairloss and erection issues , I also have. But how on earth could a low Vitamin A diet be better for sexual function? Genereux's diet sounds like a low T/ pseudo-vegan diet.
This health puzzle is getting more and more complicated, it's exhausting.

One side praises Retinol, one side demonizes it.
One said Choline is required to clean the liver, the other side says choline is anti Peaty.
One side says Vitamin D and ascorbic acid are poison, the other side says the opposite.

And so on. Feels like I'm going from bad to worse, with no end to this agony.
What's the end game here? Eat a low Vitamin A for the rest of your life. Eggs are nature's multivitamin, it feels so wrong avoiding them. And never eating dairy/ calcium again?

@youngsinatra How does the MTHFR theory relate to Genereux theory?

Yes lol, I wouldn't worry about Genereux's diet he's 7yr into a 10yr experiment to show Vitamin A deficiency is a myth nobody wants to eat how he does he eats like a prisoner. Same with most things in the nutrition space, coffee is the best thing ever or the worst depending on who you listen to as ultimately its all down to interpretation. I'd stop all supplements if I were you except say magnesium oil and zinc if you use them and then SLOWLY begin removing vitamin A for a while, see what happens. Maybe even taper off coffee if use it. Easy to get rid of liver because its ******* disgusting, then the carrot salad, OJ and start reducing eggs etc and replace it with potatoes grass fed beef, lamb, chicken, apples, bananas, dried fruits etc which are low vit A.

 

[Nomane Euger]

The hairloss and erection issues , I also have. But how on earth could a low Vitamin A diet be better for sexual function? Genereux's diet sounds like a low T/ pseudo-vegan diet.
This health puzzle is getting more and more complicated, it's exhausting.

from my experience,beyond a certain quantity of liver i feel asexual,not masculine,and i experience no sex dreams anymore, no morning woods,the sex dreams come back one day or 2 after i stop consuming the quantity of liver that induced the asexuality,if i had to speculate,perhaps the aromatase inibition from the fat soluables vitamin as one of the main reasons.its exhausting because you waisting energy considering a myriad of theories,wheen you should focus mostly and how you feel and experiment with new things,or even things you consumed in the past even if you consider them suboptimal,some"popular"foods make me feel ebtter than a alot of "health"foods.

One side praises Retinol, one side demonizes it.
One said Choline is required to clean the liver, the other side says choline is anti Peaty.
One side says Vitamin D and ascorbic acid are poison, the other side says the opposite.

all these dogmatic claims with no nuances are idiocy and/or gaslighting, fearmongering(and potentially other things) .

When someone say such thing like "Vitamin D and ascorbic acid are poison"with no nuances as if these things are inherently bad and harmfull to us,ignoring the fact that these elements are contained in the most prized foods by human beings in "nature",and contained among the foods that would potentially make most human beings feel better than they ever felt,the person is probably dumb,miopic,dogmatic ,to high rigidity of mind and serotonin,even if he has a lot of "knowledge",if he can not make nuances and accept that considering something as "poisonous"is relative,you probably wont get much positives from this person.

What's the end game here? Eat a low Vitamin A for the rest of your life. Eggs are nature's multivitamin, it feels so wrong avoiding them. And never eating dairy/ calcium again?

the end to this "agony" and the end game is most likely you giving a high priority to your feelings and intuitions,to find the foods/life style factors/any elements even hormones supplementations that make you feel better and to consume as much as needed of these to get all the benefits you get from it,to not eat any foods that make you feel recurently worst doesnt matter how "healthy it is in theory",to not embrace any theory,only use theories you find relevant as inspirations to experiment with things,and to be the most pragmatic as possible;

which claims/theories/associations are the most likely to make you feel better in the shortest amount of times,those from persons feeling how you would like to feel,and that tell you what make them feel this way,and what fixed the problems you had in communs,or those from persons feeling mediocre,possibly in bad health trying to tell you how you should do such things x amount of time to feel normal again?most of these influenceurs are in mediocre or low health/Energy even those that are muscular.

Eggs are not "nature's" multivitamins,human beings beings do not need to eggs often to get their"adequate magical vitamins intake"do you even feel good after your eat eggs?because if you dont,thats proper poison,feeling worst from a food,is the manifestation that this food in your very context at this very moment in time is bad for you.

these "evidences"that you will benefit from not eating ALL foods containing vitamine A independently of other factors for X amount of times,are not evidences,these are low degree credibility claims.

you said a few weeks agos that canned peached is the food that feel the most nourishing to your digestion despit claiming that fruits are "void of nutrients/weak foods",thats your best line of inquiry,first you should try to eat more to see if you feel better,and you should try to identify wich characteristics of these canned peached are the most likely to make you feel better,and to experiment with other foods that contain these potential elements to see if you feel the same benefit or better

 

[Nomane Euger]

I get relatively little sunlight and live in England which isn't great tho use incandescents on evenings. At the same time as I began reducing vit A intake I stopped taking vitamin D/K, taurine, niacinamide and aspirin and just take selenium, magnesium oil and zinc now. I also reduced my coffee intake from 4-5x daily to 2. My vit A intake is down from 11,000 IU average daily down to 2000 IU currently, after eating the exact same way for 4years.

ok for the sun exposure.i am not sure,do you claim that the benefits you experienced these 5 weeks are only or mainly due to reducing your vitamine A intake?if yes,why do you think that considering that you said yourself that you made a myriad of other changes at the same time?

 

[TheCalciumCad]

do you claim that the benefits you experienced these 5 weeks are only or mainly due to reducing your vitamine A intake?if yes,why do you think that considering that you said yourself that you made a myriad of other changes at the same time?

I recently decided to re-evaluate my diet after following Garrett Smith who thinks vitamin D supps and all vitamin A is a toxin/poison, so stopped vitamin D and tanked my vitamin A intake as an experiment. Eggs and the carrot salad started making me feel sick 6months ago, eating liver always made me feel sick and mango juice made me actually sick....they're all high in vitamin A which where the clues. I wasn't having poor quality erections before I got into Peat nor had such aggressive hair loss, my erection quality has improved alot already and my vitamin A intake is even lower than what I was getting pre-peat.

 

[Nomane Euger]

I recently decided to re-evaluate my diet after following Garrett Smith who thinks vitamin D supps and all vitamin A is a toxin/poison, so stopped vitamin D and tanked my vitamin A intake as an experiment. Eggs and the carrot salad started making me feel sick 6months ago, eating liver always made me feel sick and mango juice made me actually sick....they're all high in vitamin A which where the clues. I wasn't having poor quality erections before I got into Peat nor had such aggressive hair loss, my erection quality has improved alot already and my vitamin A intake is even lower than what I was getting pre-peat.

ok,were most of your symptoms aggravating when consuming any of these foods you mentionned?is there symptoms that didnt fluctuate in intensity despit the reduction of these foods?why were you eating liver if it tasted disgusting and made you feel sick every time you ate it?

 

[TheCalciumCad]

ok,were most of your symptoms aggravating when consuming any of these foods you mentionned?is there symptoms that didnt fluctuate in intensity despit the reduction of these foods?why were you eating liver if it tasted disgusting and made you feel sick every time you ate it?

Naa, I wouldn't of been eating them for years if they aggravated me. Eating liver was like 10mins of my week, I persisted with liver despite hating it for the same reason everyone else does, I thought I NEEDED it or all the magical benefits of Peating wouldn't work.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

So I’ve watched 2 podcast episodes with Grant Genereux and one with G. Smith. So far, I’m not convinced, but I am willing to have an open mind.

I also ordered some Choline and NAC to try.

@TheCalciumCad That’s interesting. I never hated liver or thought it taste bad. Lightly cooked with some onions and purée. Sometimes I will crave it, but not more than once a week.

I’m referring to chicken liver, I never ate beef liver.

Mango juice is delicious, I’d crave it so much if I had a good source.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

So I’ve watched 2 podcast episodes with Grant Genereux and one with G. Smith. So far, I’m not convinced, but I am willing to have an open mind.

I also ordered some Choline and NAC to try.

@TheCalciumCad That’s interesting. I never hated liver or thought it taste bad. Lightly cooked with some onions and purée. Sometimes I will crave it, but not more than once a week.

I’m referring to chicken liver, I never ate beef liver.

Mango juice is delicious, I’d crave it so much if I had a good source.

It took me 3.5yr of Peating to stop enjoying the high vitamin A foods outside of liver so i'm prob just further along in toxicity. Chicken liver has half as much vitamin A as beef liver so prob doesn't taste as awful for that reason. Im liking Garrett Smith alot, he's not crazy on supplements and thinks most just burden the liver and sticks to a few minerals and maybe some lactoferrin to speed up the bile flow while detoxing.

 

[redsun]

Lately my gut started to like it could digest steel. Coming from a background of severe food intolerances this is a huge win for me.

My gas completely subsided and I enjoy a pound of cooked black beans, cooked oats and fruits and more for over a week now.

What I did was to start a protocol (Start Here for MTHFR and Methylation) to optimize overall methylation, which is so crucial for neurotransmitter balance, energy production, detoxification/liver health.
I haven‘t been able to do some genomic testing for something like MTFHR but I just decided to try to optimize the methylation cycle with 5g of creatine, 5-15g of glycine + a methylated bioactive B-complex.

I would hypothesize that the whole orchestra of methylated B-vitamins really power up the stomach acid production, which is probably the most crucial step of digestion and nutrient utilization. Stomach acid requires zinc, iron and B vitamins AFAIK. Plus B vitamins help the utilization of these metals.

How are things going in regards to this?