A List Of Androgens That Stimulate 5-AR Activity

[sladerunner69]

What results did you get? Were you able to pinpoint a steroid or combination of steroids responsible for the results?

From dhea/pregnenlone I get a lot of energy and drive and libido increases but typically some brainfog and strange feelings.

From 5a-dhp I get a lot of pisitive joypus feeligns and it helps to relax and feel well, where as the androsterone is a warm-blooded tough nonverbal feeling one would describe more towards typical androgens but with more physical aspects instead of mental. I got stronger androgenic mental aspects form 11-keto dht.

the combination that seems to work the best for me personally is 20-50mg pregnenlone/5mg dhea in the morning, repeated 5 hours later, then 7 drops 5a-dhp in the evening and then 3 more drops before bed... keep in mind the 10x factor when using preg/dhea in dmso like with idealabs supplements

If I use androsterone I will lower my 5a-dhp because they are oth 5ar steroids and are very anti-estrogen. Do not want my estrogen or cortisol to get TOO low because that is dreary, there is a fine line somewhere.

I have also done 100mg preg/2mgandrosterone in the morning to good results

Also dhea/5a-dhp had some ver itneresting results. If you want to keep thigns simple and minimize the risk of feeling weird/brain fog then sticking to jsut 5 dropsof 5a-dhp and a couple drops of pansterone seems really effective.

 

[sladerunner69]

No, you are right, when I said fin causes hypothyroidism that is exactly what I was referring to ( the increase in estrogen, prolactin, cortisol and serotonin) along with the decrease in pregnenolone/progesterone etc. all kg which would cause the organism to a very slowed metabolism state.

In regards to coconut oil, well if your thyroid is so suppressed you don't even have enough T4 either for even coconut oil to make an impact in. I agree though, I did experience anti androgenic effects when I first crashed from coconut oil but my entire body was messed up and it was probably still 5AR inhibited so any small amount of 5ARI would be very effective.

Right exactomundo, it's all really relative. Coconut oil probably only inhibits 5-ar slightly-but its metabolic benefits, I bet, would negate that effect and result in a "net increase" of DHT lol. It's jsut at the time our 5-ar was crashed through the floor so that small inhibitory effect had a much bigger impact....

 

[haidut]

Source?

Look at the main thread on androsterone. The steroidgenic diagram shows how androsterone converts into androstanediol and androstanedione, both of which convert either into DHT or back to androsterone. These 4 androgens interconvert into each other.

 

[PUTFOT]

From dhea/pregnenlone I get a lot of energy and drive and libido increases but typically some brainfog and strange feelings.

From 5a-dhp I get a lot of pisitive joypus feeligns and it helps to relax and feel well, where as the androsterone is a warm-blooded tough nonverbal feeling one would describe more towards typical androgens but with more physical aspects instead of mental. I got stronger androgenic mental aspects form 11-keto dht.

the combination that seems to work the best for me personally is 20-50mg pregnenlone/5mg dhea in the morning, repeated 5 hours later, then 7 drops 5a-dhp in the evening and then 3 more drops before bed... keep in mind the 10x factor when using preg/dhea in dmso like with idealabs supplements

If I use androsterone I will lower my 5a-dhp because they are oth 5ar steroids and are very anti-estrogen. Do not want my estrogen or cortisol to get TOO low because that is dreary, there is a fine line somewhere.

I have also done 100mg preg/2mgandrosterone in the morning to good results

Also dhea/5a-dhp had some ver itneresting results. If you want to keep thigns simple and minimize the risk of feeling weird/brain fog then sticking to jsut 5 dropsof 5a-dhp and a couple drops of pansterone seems really effective.

Very interesting. What dose 11 keto? How would you say androsterone and 11 keto compare?

 

[sladerunner69]

They are kind of similar but I would describe the difference as follows;

Androsterone has properties that affect physical feelings- it is more thermogenic and dynamic, but also sedative and can make you drowsy because it's anti-cortisol effect is so strong

11-keto has properties that more noticeably affect mental feelings- setting you in command, a solid mind-state, rigid confidence, less up-down emotions,

I found both helped burn a little fat and cause extra bodyhair growth. I'm already extraoridarily hairy and now I frequently get comments about the hair on my arms and my neck and shoulders, so I had to start trimming my bodyhair more. I also didnt use to have much hair on my upper arm around my biceps/triceps and now I do. Im practically a circus freak Im so hairy, gosh.

Anyways lke I said andro is more physical and 11-keto is more mental. But there is a lot of crossover, and andro is more affordable and not synthetic so I favor it.

 

[TubZy]

They are kind of similar but I would describe the difference as follows;

Androsterone has properties that affect physical feelings- it is more thermogenic and dynamic, but also sedative and can make you drowsy because it's anti-cortisol effect is so strong

11-keto has properties that more noticeably affect mental feelings- setting you in command, a solid mind-state, rigid confidence, less up-down emotions,

I found both helped burn a little fat and cause extra bodyhair growth. I'm already extraoridarily hairy and now I frequently get comments about the hair on my arms and my neck and shoulders, so I had to start trimming my bodyhair more. I also didnt use to have much hair on my upper arm around my biceps/triceps and now I do. Im practically a circus freak Im so hairy, gosh.

Anyways lke I said andro is more physical and 11-keto is more mental. But there is a lot of crossover, and andro is more affordable and not synthetic so I favor it.

Are you also on thyroid?

 

[sladerunner69]

Are you also on thyroid?

Nope. My pulse is usually pretty high I dont think i need to get it up any higher.

 

[schultz]

Source?

I know Haidut responded, but here is a source

Potential prostate cancer drug target: Bioactivation of androstanediol by conversion to dihydrotestosterone

"Androsterone is converted to androstanediol by 17βHSD3 (50), and androstanediol is converted to DHT by 17β-HSD6."

 

[haidut]

I know Haidut responded, but here is a source

Potential prostate cancer drug target: Bioactivation of androstanediol by conversion to dihydrotestosterone

"Androsterone is converted to androstanediol by 17βHSD3 (50), and androstanediol is converted to DHT by 17β-HSD6."

Thanks. I would also add that androsterone also converts into androstanedione (as I mentioned) through 3a-HSD, and then 17b-HSD converts androstanedione to DHT. Androsterone is a really cool substance. Not only does it have nowhere to go metablically but DHT (or get excreted) but the intermediates on the way to DHT are pretty beneficial too. Both androstanedione and androstanediol are aromatase inhibitors, and I think both of them are actual estrogen receptor antagonists. So, even if the androsterone dose is pretty small and does not result in elevating DHT, it will elevate two other intermediates that are themselves beneficial and thought to account for much of the mental/mood and anti-estrogen effects ascribed to DHT.

 

[PUTFOT]

Anyways lke I said andro is more physical and 11-keto is more mental. But there is a lot of crossover, and andro is more affordable and not synthetic so I favor it.

11 keto is synthetic? Thought it was naturally occurring, found in liver.

I know Haidut responded, but here is a source

Potential prostate cancer drug target: Bioactivation of androstanediol by conversion to dihydrotestosterone

"Androsterone is converted to androstanediol by 17βHSD3 (50), and androstanediol is converted to DHT by 17β-HSD6."

Cool.

Thanks. I would also add that androsterone also converts into androstanedione (as I mentioned) through 3a-HSD, and then 17b-HSD converts androstanedione to DHT. Androsterone is a really cool substance. Not only does it have nowhere to go metablically but DHT (or get excreted) but the intermediates on the way to DHT are pretty beneficial too. Both androstanedione and androstanediol are aromatase inhibitors, and I think both of them are actual estrogen receptor antagonists. So, even if the androsterone dose is pretty small and does not result in elevating DHT, it will elevate two other intermediates that are themselves beneficial and thought to account for much of the mental/mood and anti-estrogen effects ascribed to DHT.

Agreed.

 

[Stryker]

They are kind of similar but I would describe the difference as follows;

Androsterone has properties that affect physical feelings- it is more thermogenic and dynamic, but also sedative and can make you drowsy because it's anti-cortisol effect is so strong

11-keto has properties that more noticeably affect mental feelings- setting you in command, a solid mind-state, rigid confidence, less up-down emotions,

I found both helped burn a little fat and cause extra bodyhair growth. I'm already extraoridarily hairy and now I frequently get comments about the hair on my arms and my neck and shoulders, so I had to start trimming my bodyhair more. I also didnt use to have much hair on my upper arm around my biceps/triceps and now I do. Im practically a circus freak Im so hairy, gosh.

Anyways lke I said andro is more physical and 11-keto is more mental. But there is a lot of crossover, and andro is more affordable and not synthetic so I favor it.

Interesting , I noticed all those effects but in the exact opposite !

"
Andro for me is a lot more powerful in regards to libido and mental effects like confidence and anti anxiety and resilience to stress , it also increase my temperature well

Keto dht felt a lot more physical .. Less water weight more vascularity more strength and less fatigue due to exertion


Also andro greatly reduced sexual refactory period , very good at lowering prolactin .. And I'm not sure but it made my hair seem thicker and darker and skin was smoother and softer !
"

 

[ImprovingDaily]

I'm kinda new here, but I've seen a few of your posts while researching Androsterone and I see you have some experience using it. In your experience, what kind of doses have you used daily (total daily and most used at one time) ? And for how long? and have you personally felt any shutdown of your endogenous steroid production?

I'm asking this because I truly feel I'm lacking 5-ar activity. I suffer from PTSD/Anxiety and Panic and have a history off SSRI's, alcohol use and shitty eating and habits. I ordered some of Haidut's Androsterone and Stressnon recently and wow, these supplements seem to be the missing piece. the pregnenolone relaxes my body and mind in a really nice way, but the Androsterone, wow, I feel almost imperturbable. I've gone as high as 4 drops of Androsterone at a time and under 15 mg a day, I'm just worried about shutting down my endogenous steroid production down even more than it was before Androsterone. Also, as the days go by, is there a cumulative effect, in your experience?

 

[Jsaute21]

Great thread here. A couple of questions here.

1.) I know @haidut advocates not using prey close to bed due to stimulation effects for people. Is this similar for pansterone?

2.) what would be a healthy duration for administration for androsterone and panaterone? Month on, week off?

3.) which of these supplements have had most noticeable effect on libido positively? It seems like androsterone is the winner in this regard.

4.) last but not least do any of you guys just take these supps with one meal or is it better to take 2/3x a day?

 

[haidut]

I'm kinda new here, but I've seen a few of your posts while researching Androsterone and I see you have some experience using it. In your experience, what kind of doses have you used daily (total daily and most used at one time) ? And for how long? and have you personally felt any shutdown of your endogenous steroid production?

I'm asking this because I truly feel I'm lacking 5-ar activity. I suffer from PTSD/Anxiety and Panic and have a history off SSRI's, alcohol use and shitty eating and habits. I ordered some of Haidut's Androsterone and Stressnon recently and wow, these supplements seem to be the missing piece. the pregnenolone relaxes my body and mind in a really nice way, but the Androsterone, wow, I feel almost imperturbable. I've gone as high as 4 drops of Androsterone at a time and under 15 mg a day, I'm just worried about shutting down my endogenous steroid production down even more than it was before Androsterone. Also, as the days go by, is there a cumulative effect, in your experience?

I will let the others answer on how androsterone made them feel, but as far as shutdown I posted a female study with 150mg androsterone daily and there was no shutdown. So, if you stick with the Ray-recommended upper limit of 15mg daily it should be relatively safe. So far, I have not gotten any reports of shutdown from any body using it.

 

[ImprovingDaily]

I will let the others answer on how androsterone made them feel, but as far as shutdown I posted a female study with 150mg androsterone daily and there was no shutdown. So, if you stick with the Ray-recommended upper limit of 15mg daily it should be relatively safe. So far, I have not gotten any reports of shutdown from any body using it.

Thanks for the answer Haidut, I love your products btw, thanks for making them available :)

 

[haidut]

Thanks for the answer Haidut, I love your products btw, thanks for making them available :)

You are very welcome!

 

[TubZy]

Regarding the mushrooms, it seems like the anti-5AR effects are probably small in magnitude for white button mushrooms, at least from this study (white buttons are the last row):

I talked to Peat regarding this issue. He does not seem to be worried about the 5ARi properties for white button.

"It’s probably just some fatty acids, I suspect that hundreds of foods have some such extractable activity."

However he seems to be pretty fine with most mushrooms, he likes lions mane and cordyceps too but does not like reishi (which is pretty anti androgenic).

Regarding lions mane and cordyceps.

"They have great potential medically, for example lion’s mane for Parkinson’s disease, but when something has a reputation as a drug I think it’s likely to have side effects, including allergy."

 

[Constatine]

I talked to Peat regarding this issue. He does not seem to be worried about the 5ARi properties for white button.

"It’s probably just some fatty acids, I suspect that hundreds of foods have some such extractable activity."

However he seems to be pretty fine with most mushrooms, he likes lions mane and cordyceps too but does not like reishi (which is pretty anti androgenic).

Regarding lions mane and cordyceps.

"They have great potential medically, for example lion’s mane for Parkinson’s disease, but when something has a reputation as a drug I think it’s likely to have side effects, including allergy."

Though lions mane does have some very unpleasant kappa activity.

 

[TubZy]

Though lions mane does have some very unpleasant kappa activity.

Can you elaborate further? Haven't done much research on it. I like cordyceps though one of my fav.

 

[Constatine]

Can you elaborate further? Haven't done much research on it. I like cordyceps though one of my fav.

The compound erinacine in lion's mane is a kappa receptor agonist. This isn't that terrible of a thing but it will produce an uncomfortable dysphoria in higher doses. I've tried lion's mane on many occasions but can't quite get past the dysphoria (its very intense for me). That being said I'm sure some extracts are stronger than others regarding this effect.