A List Of Androgens That Stimulate 5-AR Activity

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Increasing 5-AR activity has received a lot of interest lately due to its therapeutic effects on mood disorders as well as issues with excess cortisol (5-AR deactivates cortisol). Unfortunately, the official story is that there are no freely available compounds that can stimulate 5-AR activity. That is not true.
    It is not well-known, but DHEA stimulates 5-AR activity. However, it is well-known that DHT and T enhance 5-AR activity and I posted a study showing that DHT stimulates its own synthesis via that effect. This study looked at a number of different androgens and their effects on 5-AR activity in prostate. The most potent stimulator was 5a-androstanediol - a bi-directional metabolite of both DHT and androsterone. Next in line were DHT, and androsterone = testosterone = androstenedione. See attached imaged for more info.

    http://press.endocrine.org/doi/10.1...id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed
    http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/endo-93-3-581
     

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  2. Risingfire

    Risingfire Member

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    Do you know if 5a-androstanediol is thermogenic?

    Are there side affects of this steroid?

    Finally, the most important question, when are you releasing it?
     
  3. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Very useful info, thanks. Suprised to see progesterone on that list. Most of the other hormones can probably be coverred via the androsterone/dhea supplement route. But progesterone would have to be taken seperately, maybe with pregnenelone instead?

    @haduit Would you advise the simultaneous use of both 5-dhp and androsterone? Or is that too potent?

    I am comng tot he conclusion the key to overcoming post finasteride syndrome (5-ar deficiency) is half DHT and half allopregneneone. So I have been experimenting with different dosages of pregnenelone/5Adhp & dhea/androsterone with really potent results. The only issue is sore joints and some irritability which have led me to lower the dosages.
     
  4. schultz

    schultz Member

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  5. tca300

    tca300 Member

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  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think all 5-AR derived androgens are thermogenic, as they all increase conversion of T4 into T3. There is no need to release androstanediol as separate product, it is a direct metabolite of androsterone. Androstanediol is also illegal in the USA while androsterone is legal.
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I would use 5a-DHP on its own, based on results from my own experiments and what people reported. So, a combination of progesterone + androsterone or pregnenolone + androsterone could be a better approach. You can try 5a-DHP with androsterone but I think this results in too much reduced androgens in the organism, which drives estrogen too low. A saturated steroid usually combined best with an unsaturated one.
     
  8. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    You could also say that mushrooms inhibit aromatase which would increase DHT and coconut oil increases T production leading to an increase in DHT downstream due to the higher levels of total T. Plus coconut oil increases conversion of T4 into T3 leading to more T3 which itself is androgenic and regulates 5AR.

    I'm sensitive to 5ARIs yet I consume a lot of both of those and they don't seem to bother me oddly enough
     
  9. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Im going to try a half dose of 5a-DHP (3 drops) with a half dose of androsterone (2 drops) and for my unsaturated steroids im going 2 drops pansterone (which is enough for a good effect on its own for me) and 4 drops stressnon.
     
  10. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Yeah, same. That is a weird one though, I sued to read how the lipolic acid in coconut oil supposedly lowerred DHT so I would avoid it. Then I kept reading Peat's articles proclaiming th ebenefits so I tried it and surmised that 1 tbsp was beneficial but if I ate it with everymeal I would become really tired because it was blocking 5-ar or something. That was 4 or 5 years ago right after I crashed and now it doesnt matter how much coconut oil I eat.
     
  11. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    Same here, but it wasn't just coconut oil it was like every supplement even zinc. I think it was due to the thyroid being so weak after the crash and not being able to have T3 keep 5AR stabilized since fin causes hypothyroidism. As time went on I could handle more and more supplements again, when my thyroid/adrenals improved.
     
  12. Rand56

    Rand56 Member

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    Interesting how that ISMS article specifically states white buttons mushrooms, which no doubt a fair amount of people on here are eating and drinking the broth after its been boiled for awhile, including me. It sucks that it also inhibits 5-AR. I wonder if Ray is aware of this, and still thinks boiled white button mushrooms benefits outweigh the 5-AR inhibiting properties.
     
  13. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Wouldn't more coconut oil lead to increased t3 though? I was getting a definite low DHT feeling after too much, especially with brain fog and libido symptoms that I associate with DHT levels... also how would fin have a direct affect on thyroid function? I think it would lower 5ar derived hormones so low, and also decrease pregnenelone/progesterone/dhea through negative feedback loop, and the end result would be too much estrogen/cortisol etc and that would lower thyroid function down the line...
     
  14. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    No, you are right, when I said fin causes hypothyroidism that is exactly what I was referring to ( the increase in estrogen, prolactin, cortisol and serotonin) along with the decrease in pregnenolone/progesterone etc. all kg which would cause the organism to a very slowed metabolism state.

    In regards to coconut oil, well if your thyroid is so suppressed you don't even have enough T4 either for even coconut oil to make an impact in. I agree though, I did experience anti androgenic effects when I first crashed from coconut oil but my entire body was messed up and it was probably still 5AR inhibited so any small amount of 5ARI would be very effective.
     
  15. Dan Wich

    Dan Wich Member

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    Regarding the mushrooms, it seems like the anti-5AR effects are probably small in magnitude for white button mushrooms, at least from this study (white buttons are the last row):
    [​IMG]
     
  16. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    @Dan Wich Great to know! Thank you! So based on my research as well as the study you showed, the white button mushroom inhibits aromatase more than any other mushroom tested while inhibiting 5 alpha the least.
     
  17. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Cool chart! Seems the French knew what was up with this mushroom.
     
  18. PUTFOT

    PUTFOT Member

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    Since androsterone metabolizes into 5a-androstanediol and dht and on its own stimulates 5-ar, this makes it #1 for stimulating 5-ar huh?
    Does this include 11 keto dht?
    How would that result in too much reduced androgens? And how would too much reduced androgens drive estrogen low???
    Share your results!!
     
  19. PUTFOT

    PUTFOT Member

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    What results did you get? Were you able to pinpoint a steroid or combination of steroids responsible for the results?
     
  20. PUTFOT

    PUTFOT Member

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    Source?
     
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