Hormones And Fat Loss

[Spondive]

with a spoon usually. It can be stuffed in capsules and stuck in your pocket if you will be away from home. About a teaspoon w/ each meal. It is kind of chalking and grainy and dry, so you need something to wash it down. But it has no flavor and does not melt in mouth so it is easy to swallow.

Thanks

 

[Hans]

I've been using USP stearic acid, about 10g/day. No weight loss, but most definitely a positive effect on androgens and insulin sensitivity.

The stearic acid on its own might not have a major effect, but it surely will potentiate fat loss results.

I wonder if digging into some of the subroutines would be fruitful.

For example, could histidine supplementation benefit those with liver issues and lead to greater leptin sensitivity?
Role of dietary histidine in the prevention of obesity and metabolic syndrome

What blocks the CB1 receptor? Would that be useful?

Can TPH1 be inhibited?

These last two are intermediate processes, I know. And a closer reading might glean even more. But for a lot of people, there is homeostasis, ie, fat maintenance, even when the metabolism is otherwise relatively healthy. Temporary intervention might allow a reset to a lower fat level that would also be stable. Or may even kick over into a healthier status due to relatively lower serotoningenesis by adipose tissue.

Maybe histidine could be beneficial short term, especially if someone has low levels of histamine, but low histamine is only a secondary problem. Histamine stimulates serotonin, norepinephrine, GABA and dopamine release and histamine H3 receptor (H3R) inverse agonist/antagonist (which increase histamine levels) inhibit monoamine oxidase A and B. Histamine H1 agonist increases uncoupling, energy expenditure and suppresses hunger, but also steroidogenesis, whereas H2 promotes steroidogenesis and inhibit serotonin release. H2 also increase body temperature, but not as much as H1 activation.
So I'm just a bit cautious about histamine and think there are safer ways to boost fat loss, however, I might try some histidine in the future just to see the effect. Apparently, it majorly increases vascularity as well.

I'm not sure of natural CB1 receptor antagonists, but: "adenosine A(2A) receptor antagonist MSX-3 (1 mg/kg) caused downward shifts of THC and anandamide dose-response curves". Reinforcing and neurochemical effects of cannabinoid CB1 receptor agonists, but not cocaine, are altered by an adenosine A2A receptor antagonist. - PubMed - NCBI
Endocannabinoids increase opioids, so just avoiding any cannabinoids receptor agonists (such as PUFAs and weed) or pro-opioid substances (beta-endorphins, beta-casomorphins, gluten, etc) should do. Coffee is an opioid antagonist.

Endotoxins act on TLR4 and activate TPH1, so anything that lower endotoxins or antagonizes TLR4 would lower TPH1. PUFAs, estrogen, increases TPH, whereas phenylalanine, caffeine, DHT, vit D (inhibit TPH1 but increases TPH2), white peony root reduces TPH.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I also used to have this real stubborn leg fat. What worked for me was low stress, low PUFA and cocoa butter (about 30g daily) for the stearic acid. That helped to keep cortisol low, muscles hard, metabolic rate high and the stubborn fat went away.

I have been using cocoa butter for about two weeks now, I keep wanting more and more. It's anti-cortisol effects are very apparent, you can literally feel it.
It has also increased my androgens significantly,my fat is going down two.

It's best eaten melted(hot milk/coffee) chewing it up can cause gut problems for me. Transdermal isn't bad either.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

When I started putting chunks of cacao butter in my coffee, along with raw milk, coconut sugar, coconut oil, and maybe a bit of grass-fed butter, I would notice I felt like a furnace going off inside me, lasted about a half an hour. In the summer it was not enjoyable, but this time of year it is welcomed. At the time I wasn't sure what was going on, but now reading some of these posts I see it was the addition of the cacao butter. I just recently added the cacao butter and didn't have this effect from the other ingredients, so I am sure the cacao is causing this.

I get it heat from the steraic acid/palmatic acid in the butter due to it's anti cortisol effect and studies show both really help oxidation,

the theobromine in the powder keeps catacholmoies high and can melt off the weight as well.

 

[Hans]

Higher COMT (COMT degrades estrogen and catecholamine, such as norepinephrine, dopamine, etc.) activity is associated with increased BMI, fat deposition, craving for unhealthy, tasty foods, risk taking, addiction, etc. (1) Methylation increases COMT and possibly promotes weight gain. SAMe is also associated with weight gain.
Caffeine and green tea extract inhibits COMT activity and promotes weight loss.
Slow down COMT activity (in those that have excessive COMT) will also help promote dopamine levels that will reduce binge eating and craving for tasty, unhealthy, easy to obtain foods.

I have been using cocoa butter for about two weeks now, I keep wanting more and more. It's anti-cortisol effects are very apparent, you can literally feel it.
It has also increased my androgens significantly,my fat is going down two.

It's best eaten melted(hot milk/coffee) chewing it up can cause gut problems for me. Transdermal isn't bad either.

Yeah, it's really helpful :).

 

[Lyall]

Maybe histidine could be beneficial short term, especially if someone has low levels of histamine, but low histamine is only a secondary problem. Histamine stimulates serotonin, norepinephrine, GABA and dopamine release and histamine H3 receptor (H3R) inverse agonist/antagonist (which increase histamine levels) inhibit monoamine oxidase A and B. Histamine H1 agonist increases uncoupling, energy expenditure and suppresses hunger, but also steroidogenesis, whereas H2 promotes steroidogenesis and inhibit serotonin release. H2 also increase body temperature, but not as much as H1 activation.
So I'm just a bit cautious about histamine and think there are safer ways to boost fat loss, however, I might try some histidine in the future just to see the effect. Apparently, it majorly increases vascularity as well.

Would you consider betahistine a H3 antagonist?

Along these lines of thought regarding histamine, what do you think the differential effects of
H1 antagonism? Ie freeing H up for more H2, H3 agonism.
H2 antagonism, freeing up H for H1, H3.

 

[Spartan300]

Those using cocoa butter transdermally - do you find it gets absorbed?
I end up wiping it off...
Think I'll just eat it or put it in hot drinks

 

[Hans]

Would you consider betahistine a H3 antagonist?

Along these lines of thought regarding histamine, what do you think the differential effects of
H1 antagonism? Ie freeing H up for more H2, H3 agonism.
H2 antagonism, freeing up H for H1, H3.

I'm cautious of drugs and would rather go for a natural substance, but you can always try it out.

I would not be too focused on blocking either of them unless someone has excess histamine problems or if blocking H1 doesn't result in hyperphagia and fatigue so other related symptoms. For instance, adamantane, which is anti-histamine, doesn't cause any side for me.

 

[Cirion]

I think I'm gonna have to get on the cocoa butter train. Choo choo lol

 

[Inaut]

Those using cocoa butter transdermally - do you find it gets absorbed?
I end up wiping it off...
Think I'll just eat it or put it in hot drinks

I liked applying it transdermally but just went back to eating it throughout the day. Much easier for me. If i can keep my shirt of for extended periods, I mix it in with some shea butter and lather up

 

[Spartan300]

Thanks, I'm not sure how anyone is using 30g cocoa butter transdermally, a melted teaspoon doesn't absorb for me which is a shame if the anti-cortisol/androgenic effects are that much better than when it is eaten.

 

[tillpickle]

Yes that's the point I was trying to make :).

Yes ofc. I just wanted to dedicate this thread to hormones alone, else it's real easy to get off track and then everyone is debating about to eat starch or not haha. I was thinking about perhaps making a separate thread for that.

Hi Hans, just interested to know if you did start another thread with regard to Macro's/starches etc...within the hormonal fatloss arena? I'm a little confused as i can't seem to find combinations that promote both health and fatloss. admittedly, my journey with thyroid is young, and i'm about to purchase methylene blue which sounds promising, but i'd like to minimise any more weight gain, ideally lose fat, whilst still supporting thyroid. Id like to think thats not too much to ask :)

 

[Hans]

Hi Hans, just interested to know if you did start another thread with regard to Macro's/starches etc...within the hormonal fatloss arena? I'm a little confused as i can't seem to find combinations that promote both health and fatloss. admittedly, my journey with thyroid is young, and i'm about to purchase methylene blue which sounds promising, but i'd like to minimise any more weight gain, ideally lose fat, whilst still supporting thyroid. Id like to think thats not too much to ask :)

Hey. No I didn't start a new thread on that. I must have forgotten about it.

You'll have to experiment with different foods to see which work best for you, which is digesting perfectly, which is not causing you problems, etc. Maybe you'll have to cut out starch, maybe not.
There are so many variables to change.
For me, I try to eat as much food as possible while staying lean and it can take some time to boost the metabolism while consistently eating more food.
It can take a few month to speed up your metabolism, but you just have to be patient and in the mean while narrow down your diet so that it fits you. Maybe try some digestive enzymes as well.
At the end of the day you'll have to burn more calories to lose weight. But first boost your metabolism so that you can lose weight at 2000 calories instead of 1000 calories for example.

 

[tillpickle]

thankyou for your reply Hans, yes, that makes sense. hard to tell in a hypo state whats causing what in terms of digestive issues, as the digestive system seems so delicate.
Noticing some improvements since starting thyroid supps so will give it more time.

 

[redsun]

Apart from thyroid being the most important, caffeine, quercetin and fisetin are safe and good options. They are beta-adrenergic receptors agonists and potentiates catecholamine induce lipolysis. Potentiation of beta-adrenoceptor agonist-mediated lipolysis by quercetin and fisetin in isolated rat adipocytes. - PubMed - NCBI

Catecholamines also induce uncoupling, so other uncouplers, such as methylene blue, caffeine, aspirin, saturated fat, etc. would be good options.

Is taking NDT(or T4/T3, T3, any thyroid supplement for that matter) while doing a calorie restricted high carb diet(moderate protein of course), low fat diet advisable or will it cause problems because of the calorie restriction? I'm not talking about crazy high doses, just moderate to low doses. My NDT is in 50mg capsules and unfortunately Im not sure the conversion of pure NDT to grains is as I wanted to attempt 1 grain a day in the morning.

T3 dosing in the bodybuilding community to increase fat loss especially before contests to allow more food intake pre-contest has apparently been a thing which I am surprised I never heard about until recently.

 

[Hans]

Is taking NDT(or T4/T3, T3, any thyroid supplement for that matter) while doing a calorie restricted high carb diet(moderate protein of course), low fat diet advisable or will it cause problems because of the calorie restriction? I'm not talking about crazy high doses, just moderate to low doses. My NDT is in 50mg capsules and unfortunately Im not sure the conversion of pure NDT to grains is as I wanted to attempt 1 grain a day in the morning.

T3 dosing in the bodybuilding community to increase fat loss especially before contests to allow more food intake pre-contest has apparently been a thing which I am surprised I never heard about until recently.

Yeah that's totally fine. Just find a dose you do good on.

 

[redsun]

@Hans

In the OP you say DHT does not significantly improve fat loss or lean gains at supraphysiological levels. If someone's DHT was lower than normal and was then brought up to more normal levels through direct hormone supplementation then it would have a significant impact on body comp? or no?

Also I assume this goes for androsterone as well or is the strong aromatase inhibiting effect, that is stronger then DHT's AI effect, of andro make it more powerful than DHT in regards to muscle gains and/or fat loss?

Does the positive effects of andro on liver function also play a role( e.g. does improved liver function mean more 5AR, T3 conversion, etc)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Hans]

@Hans

In the OP you say DHT does not significantly improve fat loss or lean gains at supraphysiological levels. If someone's DHT was lower than normal and was then brought up to more normal levels through direct hormone supplementation then it would have a significant impact on body comp? or no?

Also I assume this goes for androsterone as well or is the strong aromatase inhibiting effect, that is stronger then DHT's AI effect, of andro make it more powerful than DHT in regards to muscle gains and/or fat loss?

Does the positive effects of andro on liver function also play a role( e.g. does improved liver function mean more 5AR, T3 conversion, etc)?

Thanks in advance.

Hey Redsun.

I'm sure DHT will affect fat loss, but in regards to how much it will contribute directly is probably not that much.
If one is to boost DHT naturally then a whole lot of other things could also play a role in fat loss rather than DHT.

So boosting DHT for body recomp will have a positive effect in terms of hardness and dryness. Steroids such as masteron promotes dryness and hardness much more than T, but is not as anabolic as T.

Androsterone could seem promote fat loss by lowering estrogen and water retention, but might not boost actual fat loss. It does however activate the FXR receptor and promote thermogenesis and the things you mentioned and so on, which could have a positive effect on fat loss.

The point I'm trying to make is that food is much better for promoting fat loss than andro. Andro with DHEA and a cortisol antagonist could theoretically negate/minimize the catabolic effect of a cut, but won't contribute that significantly to fat loss. It shouldn't be relied on for fat loss.

Then again, I only have experience with small doses of andro and big doses can have a different effect so one has to experiment for a few weeks.

 

[redsun]

Hey Redsun.

I'm sure DHT will affect fat loss, but in regards to how much it will contribute directly is probably not that much.
If one is to boost DHT naturally then a whole lot of other things could also play a role in fat loss rather than DHT.

So boosting DHT for body recomp will have a positive effect in terms of hardness and dryness. Steroids such as masteron promotes dryness and hardness much more than T, but is not as anabolic as T.

Androsterone could seem promote fat loss by lowering estrogen and water retention, but might not boost actual fat loss. It does however activate the FXR receptor and promote thermogenesis and the things you mentioned and so on, which could have a positive effect on fat loss.

The point I'm trying to make is that food is much better for promoting fat loss than andro. Andro with DHEA and a cortisol antagonist could theoretically negate/minimize the catabolic effect of a cut, but won't contribute that significantly to fat loss. It shouldn't be relied on for fat loss.

Then again, I only have experience with small doses of andro and big doses can have a different effect so one has to experiment for a few weeks.

I agree that generally food is the winner if we talk fat loss, I just wanted more clarification on Andro and DHTs effects and you provided that. Thanks

 

[Hgreen56]

I also used to have this real stubborn leg fat. What worked for me was low stress, low PUFA and cocoa butter (about 30g daily) for the stearic acid. That helped to keep cortisol low, muscles hard, metabolic rate high and the stubborn fat went away.

was this '30 gr cocao butter a day' during this low fat fat loss experiment?
Fat Loss On Low Fat, My Experiment

i was also wondering: did you eat your fats with your starchy meals or did you separate it?