Where Are The Before And Afters In This , Peat World"?

[YourUniverse]

My point is the point of caloric deficit is an extremely fluid, moving target and can be shifted to an incredible degree to the point you can gain weight on 2000 calories (or less) and lose it on 5000+.

Screenshot

Isnt this exactly what I pointed out to you, and you disagreed?

Its not uncommon for visionaries to change their positions, and theres no reason to indict such a thing - however, since you admitted to being a "go against the flow kind of guy", I fear you are looking for something, anything, to go against the norm with, to fulfill your sense of identity (even when its not worth while...).

When we spend a lot of time alone, we start to lack feedback. This is the simplest value of therapy, as far as I'm concerned. Having a 3rd party question our unquestioned thought patterns, which may or may not be doing us harm, can give us a more firm grip of reality.

Ive been in those positions before - isolated, depressed, with unchecked thoughts. Grand thoughts and aspirations, "If only they knew my greatness!". No one wants a method to eat 6000 calories and lose weight more than I do. Please continue your work, but I do think you're a little bit out of touch right now. Youve become extremely ingrained in your stance, now to the point of self-describing as a "visionary". I fear this post will do nothing but ingrain you further, but that is your journey to endeavor.

There's nothing wrong with the CICO model, other than maybe how static it can be (it adjusts dynamically, as per screenshot and your quote), but even that can be somewhat accounted for with activity multipliers a bit of nutritional understanding. And on a personal level, when I was 280 lbs, I could maintain my weight on 4800+ calories, but I wasnt a metabolic superstar. I was just big!

Anyway, something about your post moved me emotionally, maybe I need an aspirin...

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Good health means being able to go 12 hours without food, not eating breakfast first thing in the morning, and still having a temp of 98.6 and a resting pulse around 70 just before your first meal of the day. This indicates the liver is working optimally, thyroid is balanced, and stress hormones are low. Waking temp should be around 97.6, temps and pulse should be lower over night this indicates your circadian system is healthy, it indicates sleep that is restorative. Needing to eat constantly to keep temps normal is a sign of poor health, I was in this spot at the start of peating but have worked past it since I changed my diet to something less rooted in abstractions and dogma. Constant hunger is a bad sign, good health means experiencing hunger 2 to 3 times a day. Good health for men means your body fat is around 15%. Any diet that keeps temps high but keeps you above 20% body fat and keeps you eating a large amount of calories is a path to metabolic syndrome and disease. The are plenty of overweight people without hypothyroidism and without low temps or low pulse, a subject RP does not really seem to focus on. If your diet is not putting you near 15% body fat, then your hormones are all working against good health and longevity. One of the greatest predictors for longevity is simple waist to height ratio. The liver is like a battery, if we do the right things it sustains us quite well between meals. Over-eating, even low fat meals, increases endotoxemia, and therefore works to damage the liver as well as other organs.

 

[postman]

don't let the dogmatic folks dissuade you from completing your experiment @Cirion

 

[YourUniverse]

don't let the dogmatic folks dissuade you from completing your experiment @Cirion

And we shouldnt let his dogma influence new members, either. Every person is dogmatic, with varying degrees of openmindedness

 

[postman]

 

[Cirion]

don't let the dogmatic folks dissuade you from completing your experiment @Cirion

I won't.

About the fluid calories comment -- I don't know any proponents of CICO that agree that CICO can vary from 2k-5k or even 1k-5k... for the same person, that's why I say that's a disproof of it.

I'm probably done commenting for now, but I'll be back in a few more weeks with better/even more data. The engineer in me that loves been right (It's true, I do admit it) wants to keep debating, but at this point I think the debate isn't helpful for anyone involved, as I've said everything I want to say.

 

[Pufas Shmoofas]

Yeah Ray thinks you can just throw thyroid at the wall and get better. That's really one of the only things I disagree with him on, well that and milk.

Ray doesn't think that, he knows the importance of nutrition, micros and macros, calories. He just thinks thyroid supplementation is very useful in addition to diet, whereas you think thyroid supplementation is garbage.

You probably don't really feel this way though and actually agree with peat that diet is important and thyroid supplementation can be useful.

Soon you will like low-fat dairy for the calcium, balance it with gelatin, and find a nice place for it in your diet.

Then you will be full Peat.

 

[dreamcatcher]

That's what Chris Masterjohn thinks too- dairy makes him fat. But he's lactose intolerant. He thinks that all macros can cause weight gain, depending on your genetic makeup.

 

[lampofred]

Where in the world do you get this information/idea from though?

Increasing metabolism from food neither brings up cortisol nor fat oxidation in fact it does the precise opposite, assuming you pick good food choices. Increasing temps and pulses will in fact reduce the effects of estrogens and PUFA, not increase.

Thyroid is actually garbage compared to food. I tried T3 for a while. It made me worse. Food is in fact superior to thyroid supplementation. I have personal experience to show for that.

The decrease of metabolism with age is damaging, not helpful, it's ultimately one of the main reasons people die in old age. I plan to maintain high metabolism till the day I die.

It's from Peat. And that is exactly why you don't tolerate thyroid. Your tissues are full of PUFA so taking any thyroid causes inflammatory damage, which is why it makes you feel bad, which is why your body downregulated your own thyroid in order to prevent any further inflammatory damage from occurring as a result of high heat interacting with stored PUFA.

When you require 1000 carbs daily to raise temps, most likely what is happening is that the massive amount of carbs is inducing a massive insulin release (especially if you are eating starch) and the insulin in turn drops blood sugar and causes cortisol release. Starch increases cortisol in another as well, it stimulates serotonin which stimulates cortisol. So baseline cortisol is highly elevated. The cortisol is very anti-inflammatory, and temps can go up without causing inflammatory damage.

Pregnenolone can go down in two pathways, DHEA and progesterone. I think the more it is shifted towards DHEA the more inflammation there will be in the body and less good thyroid will feel, but shifting the steroid line into the progesterone/cortisol pathway is the way to feel good and increase regenerative capacity.

Caffeine (and maybe aspirin) is one of the only things I know that will do that.

 

[lisamarie1010]

People are getting too deep in the forest/weeds.

All that matters is metabolism. Nothing else does in the grand scheme of things. 85 bpm pulse and 98.6F temp that's it. If you can consistently get that, you're winning. You will have to play with the minutae to some degree to achieve this, true, but you know you're either doing something right or wrong quite quickly via these measurements.

Fasting or no fasting? Try both and check temps and pulses. End of the discussion.
Dairy or no dairy? Try both and checks temps and pulses. End of discussion.

See where I'm going with this? There is no longer confusion via this strategy. Or at least, not as much. I haven't yet perfected my own diet just yet, but this is helping me systematically discover what helps and what doesn't.

I have found too that foods that are bloating are usually not helpful. I weigh myself multiple times a day and if my weight suddenly shoots up, I know I ate something not good for me. For example starch reliably bloats me.

I really appreciate your clarity - and insistence - on us monitoring our own data, and being our own advocates. I am realatively new to this (Peat) and have gained lots of weight already - but everything I am reading makes sense to me. And my metabolism needs to recover. This is what feels right to me. My temp is always 98.4 -98.7 upon waking. Pulse slightly lower - around 80. I appreciate the specific, and clear, targets.

 

[Cirion]

I really appreciate your clarity - and insistence - on us monitoring our own data, and being our own advocates. I am realatively new to this (Peat) and have gained lots of weight already - but everything I am reading makes sense to me. And my metabolism needs to recover. This is what feels right to me. My temp is always 98.4 -98.7 upon waking. Pulse slightly lower - around 80. I appreciate the specific, and clear, targets.

Are you feeling better? I'm guessing so with those #'s? If you can maintain those #'s you should hopefully level off in weight gain soon and start to drop it back down. I am not sure how much weight you would gain before it leveling off, as I myself did so many things wrong when I started, but it sounds like you're off to a much better start than I was. But if your temps and pulses are great (which it sounds like) and you're feeling better, more energy, more libido, more motivation etc etc then you're definitely on the right track Feeling better is the ultimate goal I think we would all agree on, so that's definitely important, that you are getting less brain fog, more restful sleep, more motivation, more zest for life etc...

 

[MatheusPN]

How is being a doctor bad? Ray peat is in fact a doctor and there are some other doctors that also do great work and know a whole lot about biology.
Just because most doctors nowdays are corrupted and blindly follow the bull**** of big farma that doesn't mean that being a doctor is a bad thing.

Also excuse me if i am wrong but i am under the impression that Ray peat states that the fastest your metabolism the better with the only requirement being
sufficient amounts of nutrients and calories which is something i disagree with.

As any other job that can be stresfull. I just said that is nice. Yeah being a doctor can be a very good thing
Tranquil PurpleHeart, to your another question. Direct from the Ray Peat: "(...)The key idea was that energy and structure are interdependent, at every level.(...)"
And see the nice comment lampofred did again and the cool comment Pufas Shmoofas also did. Context

 

[MatheusPN]

You say he isn't a god but you are the one who whined and asked for the Anti-Ray Peat label. I also find offensive for you to say he is better than a certain religion's god
IF anything what you are saying about him not knowing everything is the complete opposite of what you spoke of earlier in the week, completely antagonistic to anything different from what Ray Peat said

You were offended by my comment, okay, I don't want you as my prey, as my victim, so don't be offended or succumb to me. I'm glad I didn't unnecessarily mistreat or insulted anyone
And certainly he is better than various gods
I suppose no one knows how Peat would like this forum to be moderate, but certainly decimate DoS or trolling, is ethical and honorable, for that organizing was what I suggested not your lies
You felt offended and tried to insult me, don't be so sensitive and weak, your comment was; despicable!

 

[ShotTrue]

You were offended by my comment, okay, I don't want you as my prey, as my victim, so don't be offended or succumb to me. I'm glad I didn't unnecessarily mistreat or insulted anyone
And certainly he is better than various gods
I suppose no one knows how Peat would like this forum to be moderate, but certainly decimate DoS or trolling, is ethical and honorable, for that organizing was what I suggested not your lies
You felt offended and tried to insult me, don't be so sensitive and weak, your comment was; despicable!

I don't see where I posted anything like an insult. And no one was trolling, you were upset that people were discussing fish oil and wanted the moderators to do something about it, that's why we have the anti-peat thread... I guess I am calling you hypocritical because you said many members think Ray Peat can be wrong but then you are the one asking both mods to stop people questioning peaty ideas
Yes considering Christianity is the largest religion in the world and you said Ray was better than christian God I would find that to be offensive, you wrote that without anyone asking you to so you should expect people to find it abrasive

 

[Jing]

Unrefined carb sources dont necessarily contain enough b vitamins to oxidize the carbs properly. This is true for many fruits, orange juice is one of the very few popular peat carb sources that may provide enough thiamine for the amount sugar and some here do not even believe OJ has sufficient nutrients to be a net gain for the body. Many of your foods may be unrefined but speaking of nutrient content compared to carbohydrate quantity leaves you severely lacking in B1 100% guaranteed and like some other B-vitamins. Supplements are in general trash, hormones being beneficial is extremely individualistic. Actual nutrients that are proven to be necessary to human life are a different story.

No we dont disagree, you need sufficient food intake. Having an insane appetite is sign of inefficient metabolism. Doesnt mean you eat more than necessary food intake based on BMR, TDEE. I personally would not be where I am today healthwise without large dosing of thiamine, B-complex, zinc, B6 dosing, L-Tyrosine. Thiamine is a bizarre magic vitamin that makes one have near perfect memory, increases and maintains CO2 very well(in my experience and is factually a potent carbonic anhydrase inhibitor) and also supercharges the body(my personal experience). Supplements especially actual nutrients have a place and tend to always help rather then hurt

How much b1 do you think is good? I've taken 500mg and notice nothing.

 

[MatheusPN]

I don't see where I posted anything like an insult. And no one was trolling, you were upset that people were discussing fish oil and wanted the moderators to do something about it, that's why we have the anti-peat thread... I guess I am calling you hypocritical because you said many members think Ray Peat can be wrong but then you are the one asking both mods to stop people questioning peaty ideas
Yes considering Christianity is the largest religion in the world and you said Ray was better than christian God I would find that to be offensive, you wrote that without anyone asking you to so you should expect people to find it abrasive

You keep lying, despicable. I read the fish thread after posting. PurpleHeart said that Peat isn't an all knowing god he is just a man like all of us, so I said:
"Yeah, Ray isn't a god, even being better than the christian god, he wouldn't like to be an authoritative figure, he have aversion to authoritarianism. Most people on this forum consider he doesn't know all truth and can be wrong in some affirmations"

The truth, my real post:

An idea to mitigate attacks and misinformation

Create an anti-peat subforum, where mainly, studies and hypotheses repeated and "unpeaty", that have previously been here: solved, clarified and that have been shown to be incorrect or frail. Be moved there.
If you will put something "anti-peat" in the main forum, then that be something well-founded and not yet clarified, cleared up

What kind of ideas would be moved there? These: Estrogen inhibits the synthesis of fatty acids and their oxidation, and is anti-cancerous. Eating 0.4g of PUFA is bad. Serotonin is the happy hormone. Progesterone is immunosuppressive in a bad way, makes you susceptible to infection. Estrogen is good to give for menopause women. Estriol and Estrone is bad, but estradiol is good even considering they convert in each other etc.

To concretize it or to assess whether it may be necessary, I would recommend a meeting with honorable members
Why concretize it? Because the mining for the gold would be more easily and the information, the message of this forum would not be misrepresented, deturped. Is an countermeasure against trolls

 

[ShotTrue]

You keep lying, despicable. I read the fish thread after posting. PurpleHeart said that Peat isn't an all knowing god he is just a man like all of us, so I said:
"Yeah, Ray isn't a god, even being better than the christian god, he wouldn't like to be an authoritative figure, he have aversion to authoritarianism. Most people on this forum consider he doesn't know all truth and can be wrong in some affirmations"

The truth, my real post:

An idea to mitigate attacks and misinformation

Create an anti-peat subforum, where mainly, studies and hypotheses repeated and "unpeaty", that have previously been here: solved, clarified and that have been shown to be incorrect or frail. Be moved there.
If you will put something "anti-peat" in the main forum, then that be something well-founded and not yet clarified, cleared up

What kind of ideas would be moved there? These: Estrogen inhibits the synthesis of fatty acids and their oxidation, and is anti-cancerous. Eating 0.4g of PUFA is bad. Serotonin is the happy hormone. Progesterone is immunosuppressive in a bad way, makes you susceptible to infection. Estrogen is good to give for menopause women. Estriol and Estrone is bad, but estradiol is good even considering they convert in each other etc.

To concretize it or to assess whether it may be necessary, I would recommend a meeting with honorable members
Why concretize it? Because the mining for the gold would be more easily and the information, the message of this forum would not be misrepresented, deturped. Is an countermeasure against trolls

Ok, and I didn’t lie anywhere ?

 

[MatheusPN]

Ok, and I didn’t lie anywhere ?

Just some of your lies: "...asked for the Anti-Ray Peat label...". Another: "...then you are the one asking both mods to stop people questioning peaty ideas..."

 

[ShotTrue]

Just some of your lies: "...asked for the Anti-Ray Peat label...". Another: "...then you are the one asking both mods to stop people questioning peaty ideas..."

Didn't you just say that was your idea? You literally @ the mods to make the anti-ray peat

As seen here:

Hi, @charlie and @Blossom , I've summoned you more to alert about the situation. In relation to people insulting Ray, if someone didn’t intervene then I did and they ceased insults, if they had continued, I would alert. Now that I know you would like and would be beneficial, I will report. Thanks Blossom and Charlie!

An idea to mitigate attacks and misinformation

Create an anti-peat subforum, where mainly, studies and hypotheses repeated and "unpeaty", that have previously been here: solved, clarified and that have been shown to be incorrect or frail. Be moved there.
If you will put something "anti-peat" in the main forum, then that be something well-founded and not yet clarified, cleared up

What kind of ideas would be moved there? These: Estrogen inhibits the synthesis of fatty acids and their oxidation, and is anti-cancerous. Eating 0.4g of PUFA is bad. Serotonin is the happy hormone. Progesterone is immunosuppressive in a bad way, makes you susceptible to infection. Estrogen is good to give for menopause women. Estriol and Estrone is bad, but estradiol is good even considering they convert in each other etc.

To concretize it or to assess whether it may be necessary, I would recommend a meeting with honorable members
Why concretize it? Because the mining for the gold would be more easily and the information, the message of this forum would not be misrepresented, deturped. Is an countermeasure against trolls

@CLASH I really like your posts, I am waiting for your blog. Members like you, leave it clear that you want, try to transcend Peat's work or considerate his thoughts.
I think Peat said that 1 carb/1 protein/1 fat kcal is the ideal for an health person... I thought it was lampofred who did this great post, but was you! Unpopular Opinion: I Think Some Of Ray's Ideas Are Just Not Helpful And Actually Make Matters Worse
@Waremu I feel best on high carb, like 80- 90%. I think Peat or Haidut said that is good to eat at least 2 carbs/1 protein. Thanks for chiming in

Idk how I feel about a guy saying Ray Peat is better than god and has a profile picture that looks like a swastika

 

[redsun]

How much b1 do you think is good? I've taken 500mg and notice nothing.

I assume you were taking thiamine hydrochloride since that is considered the better one around here. Some people only get subtle effects. If you have issues breathing through your nostrils it can help clear them up because of the increasing CO2. Studies showed it helped lower lactic acid and ammonia and in general may improve exercise performance and stamina. Improved brain function is another thing. Very helpful for chronic fatigue. You will likely receive more benefit through consistent dosing over a period of weeks.

As for how much, many use ridiculously high doses but a few hundred milligram daily is a good start, say 100mg for each meal, turns into 300mg daily. Should be consumed with adequate carbohydrates but we are on the Ray Peat forum so I likely dont have to tell you that anyway. Its relatively safe at virtually any dose. Ive seen someone mentioning, I think haidut using 1500mg a day thiamine at one point, Im not sure he still does.

Have a look around the forum for thiamine threads if you are interesting in learning more about it. This particular thread has a lot of info:

Thiamine: One Of The Main Limiting Factors For Proper Carbohydrate Metabolism