Where Are The Before And Afters In This , Peat World"?

[PurpleHeart]

Melatonin acts to regulate circadian rhythm in animals, it is misconstrued as a sleep hormone but that really is a crummy simplification, it is more of a clock hormone, it serves many functions and cannot be described well in simplified terms. I have experimented with taking melatonin during the middle of the day and it does not make me sleepy at all. It can be used as a pre-workout supplement. If I take it at night it does help me fall asleep but has little effect on staying asleep, I think gaba and balanced serotonin and dopamine has more importance for sustained sleep. Melatonin is like the signal for daily physiological regime change. When the clock becomes disregulated then stress and aging are accelerated, as the various cycles our organs rely on to operate efficiently grow disharmonious.

I also tried 1 - 2 mg melatonin and it just made my absurd and usually abstract dreams even more vivid.

It didn't have any noticeable effect on sleep onset or sleep duration.

Although other people have had completely different experiences.

I always dream of snakes for some reason.
So many snakes lol.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I also tried 1 - 2 mg melatonin and it just made my absurd and usually abstract dreams even more vivid.

It didn't have any noticeable effect on sleep onset or sleep duration.

Although other people have had completely different experiences.

I always dream of snakes for some reason.
So many snakes lol.

I took it every day for 6 months, at first it worked well to help me keep on a normal sleep schedule, at the end I started to feel restless leg symptoms and had a lot of trouble sleeping. I read that melatonin can chelate iron from the brain and cause low dopamine; melatonin is known to make restless leg worse. I now take it just once or twice a week and do not experience restless leg from it.

 

[baccheion]

I also tried 1 - 2 mg melatonin and it just made my absurd and usually abstract dreams even more vivid.

It didn't have any noticeable effect on sleep onset or sleep duration.

Although other people have had completely different experiences.

I always dream of snakes for some reason.
So many snakes lol.

Bad dreams or nightmares are a reflection of imbalances or deficiencies. For example, nightmares after eating spicy/sugary foods immediately before bed. A drop in blood sugar (hypoglycemia) during sleep can cause a release of adrenaline/cortisol, leading to nightmares.

Melatonin is taken 1 hour before bed and increased 300 mcg at a time until it works. Some sites sell it in liquid/dropper form.

 

[MatheusPN]

[
People interpretation

 

[SOMO]

I only see complex theories here...
It goes super deep...
But does it work in practice?

The results are just more and more endless theories, more complex ,,individual problems" and people getting fatter, staying the same, or whatever... long years of talking and supplementing...

People who have some succes, are having if because of some super individual way that worked for them and not because of anything that could be ,, a peat way" or a general rule (like on keto, dont eat carbs and 95% of people have results (good or bad) but something happends and you have nowdays milions before and after photos from them, and it starts working fast... I asked this before, this forum takes so much of my energy and nothing trully works... and what works is not at all from this forum or peat... like NO COFFEE, taking iron, taking whey, not eating dairy, skiping meals, not to much salt and so on... all of that fixed me somewhat, but i cant say its from a peat diet or even a peat principle... this forum has not one general way at all, i get nothing here, always just 5 ,,oposite" advices... thats like no advice at all... and the peaty ones never work... many claim a lot of things and after a few months they swear different things... and so on... where is your proof that this is trully working?

I know its not everything about weightloss, but getting fater is 100% NOT IT! No before and after here, no proves, just high end bla bla

Sorry 4 the rant, i like many of you... :) its not like youre bad people, its the oposite, super smart and nice people, but i think the forum is to much bla bla and its not that helpful in practice/in real life, but nice theories

I guarantee you that Keto is not working for people lol.

Look at popular Keto gurus, all of them are obese or were fit before going Keto.

And the ones that do have success are also restricting calories.

Look up “Jimmy Moore”, he’s been Keto for years and has slowly ballooned up to 400 lbs from 180 when he started the diet.

 

[Donnyg303]

People are getting too deep in the forest/weeds.

All that matters is metabolism. Nothing else does in the grand scheme of things. 85 bpm pulse and 98.6F temp that's it. If you can consistently get that, you're winning. You will have to play with the minutae to some degree to achieve this, true, but you know you're either doing something right or wrong quite quickly via these measurements.

Fasting or no fasting? Try both and check temps and pulses. End of the discussion.
Dairy or no dairy? Try both and checks temps and pulses. End of discussion.

See where I'm going with this? There is no longer confusion via this strategy. Or at least, not as much. I haven't yet perfected my own diet just yet, but this is helping me systematically discover what helps and what doesn't.

I have found too that foods that are bloating are usually not helpful. I weigh myself multiple times a day and if my weight suddenly shoots up, I know I ate something not good for me. For example starch reliably bloats me.

Thank you for that perspective. That is a very helpful, scientific approach to the chaos that this can be

 

[redsun]

Thank you for that perspective. That is a very helpful, scientific approach to the chaos that this can be

I hate to break it to you but unfortunately its not as simple as temperature and pulse. Lots of overweight and obese people have good temps and pulses, but no one will think for a second their thyroid is functioning well and they are healthy. Cirion is running his own personal experiment which isnt advisable to newbies or advisable in general. I wrote this earlier in the thread:

Good body composition which means normal body fat levels, steady energy, good blood flow, decent muscle mass(men especially, but natural mass is different from weightlifter muscles), healthy skin, flat stomach(sign of low inflammation, endotoxin, strong stomach acid), lack of edema, steady blood sugar(similar to energy levels), good mood, strong resistance to stress etc...

The key to following Ray Peat's principles in effort to gaining your health back and improving thyroid function is restoring oxidative metabolism and implementing basic dietary principles that Ray Peat generally endorses.

Carbs in the form of sugar, and possibly starches, minimum of 80g protein and up to 120g protein and even more which is dependent on muscle mass, bodyweight. Polyunsaturated fat containing foods are to be avoided at all cost, saturated fats are preferred. Fat is still limited as optimal function(especially optimal thyroid function) relies on carbohydrates which are stored as glycogen in the body to fuel the liver, brain, muscles. Overdoing the fat can lead to unnecessary weight gain and other issues. Supplementing thyroid can help, as well as B vitamins to help restore oxidative metabolism among other things. Stick to whole food sources as much as possible. Dairy is heavily endorsed by Peat, as long as you dont have negative reactions it can be good.

Not as simple as temp and pulse, but unlike this simplistic view following Ray Peat's principles properly will actually work.

 

[Cirion]

I hate to break it to you but unfortunately its not as simple as temperature and pulse. Lots of overweight and obese people have good temps and pulses

No, no they don't. Name one person who does either here or otherwise. And I'm talking about waking temperature and pulses, not temps and pulses achieved during the day. Although those do matter too. Also, resting temps and pulses so temps and pulses achieved through exertion don't count either.

Considering CLASH and others admitted that even healthy people they know don't get 98.6F temps and 85 pulses waking up I REALLY doubt anyone here knows any obese person with these markers, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

 

[redsun]

No, no they don't. Name one person who does either here or otherwise. And I'm talking about waking temperature and pulses, not temps and pulses achieved during the day. Although those do matter too.

Well I'll start with myself, when I was a bit overweight(20lbs overweight, which is barely ***t). I used to measure my temps and pulses in the morning even before Peat, and likewise I kept the habit. 98.6-99 and occasionally higher then 99 and 80+ pulse. Often woke up and I either knew I was sweating the night before because I felt damp or woke up drenched despite avoiding any bed covers and good AC temp(no higher than 73) with AC blasting near me as well. Is it possible to be severely low temp and overweight? Yes, but that is not the norm. You say such things as refuting what I said and saying no one obese or overweight has proper temps or pulses and yet have no proof of this. I always felt hot regardless if it was in the morning, noon, whenever the ****. Fat is insulating, heart also works harder to pump blood to a larger body which can cause misleading readings. This isnt exactly controversial information and yet you are convinced all overweight folks or worse obese folks dont have "healthy" temps or pulses in the morning. I was only 20lbs overweight eating trash(non-peatish) and was always hot. So much for that blanket statement.

I even forgot to mention overweight or obese people have higher catecholamines(dopamine, noradrenaline, and adrenaline) which will increase body heat and pulse, especially noradrenaline. Its some of the functions of noradrenaline specifically.

 

[Cirion]

Allright, if you say so. Provide me extensive plots like I have shown in my thread here Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

BTW feeling hot usually means you are actually cold / dumping heat (which happens with poor metabolism).

My latest and greatest plot (among many others) include this:

14 day rolling average plots (2 weeks).

Show me your equivalent plots then we'll talk. Otherwise, a pointless discussion that is very subjective.

TBH no longer interested in subjective debates. Show me the data. Otherwise, a discussion is pointless. I deal in facts and data only, not opinions.

 

[redsun]

Allright, if you say so. Provide me extensive plots like I have shown in my thread here Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

My latest and greatest plot (among many others) include this:

Show me your equivalent plots then we'll talk. Otherwise, a pointless discussion that is very subjective.

The point is not that all obese or overweight folk have good temps(according to you what good temps and pulse are), its that temp and pulse isnt so black and white. Saying its black and white, telling some newbies in this thread this simplistic BS of temp and pulse, if you got the temp and pulse you are going great. Incredibly dishonest and not too mention BS.

This is basically your assumption that you take as written into stone and start advising others with:

"If your temp is 98.6 and pulse 85+ in the morning, you are healthy. Case closed."

Ray Peat is not this ******* simplistic. You have been in this forum, things can get dam complicated. Too complicated is bad in its own way, but too simplistic has never been Peatish at all. He is a biochemist after all, biochemistry can become incredibly complex quickly especially if we are talking about solving health problems through a biochemical perspective.

I honestly dont give a dam what you personally do in regards to your experiment. My issue is you advising newbies to follow suit with your theory. And yes it is a theory, not proven. By all means solve one of mankind's greatest conundrums. But it will only be solved once you put your money where your mouth is and return to a healthy body weight eating 1 kg of carbohydrates a day. Or you could follow some of the senior members suggestion to find out if you have SIBO and treat it accordingly, or many of the other protocols such as healing the liver with caffeine, k2, taurine, etc.. and many other methods to heal. Until then, it is irresponsible to advise others in the way you yourself are still currently testing and still have yet to prove.

 

[Cirion]

Well whatever. It's clear this discussion has run its course of productivity. See you in a few weeks when I have even better proof. But, I bet you and others will still just say I'm "unique", "an outlier", or "genetics" or some other such thing lol.

edit-I do apologize if I have been too confrontational. I have noticed that as doing this my androgens have been going up dramatically, and in turn my desire to be confrontational. I always love a good debate, and lately I have found myself getting a little too trigger happy with debates hahah. Sometimes I have a hard time controlling it haha, not used to having higher androgens. So, I do apologize if I have offended anyone. I am just so excited about my discoveries and how I feel with some changes I have been making that sometimes I can't help it. But regardless, you aren't completely wrong, I guess I can't expect people to fully grasp things until I have irrefutable evidence, so irrefutable evidence I shall get! At the end of the day getting better is what we all want, I'm sure. I am trying to provide a clear path on how to do so, because "just supplement zinc" "just take thyroid" etc advice is just way too generic and never was helpful to me. Tracking pulses and temps is the first thing I've done that actually seems to have merit.

 

[Tenacity]

Well whatever. It's clear this discussion has run its course of productivity. See you in a few weeks when I have even better proof. But, I bet you and others will still just say I'm "unique", "an outlier", or "genetics" or some other such thing lol.

You've been doing this a while. Forgive me if you've mentioned elsewhere, but how much weight have you lost so far?

 

[Sefton10]

Look up “Jimmy Moore”, he’s been Keto for years and has slowly ballooned up to 400 lbs from 180 when he started the diet.

He’s still going strong...


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CTRxfd5LW-G/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

[Blossom]

He’s still going strong...


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CTRxfd5LW-G/?utm_medium=copy_link

This should be interesting. If you remember please update us on how he does at the end of 100 days. I don’t have Instagram.

 

[Sam321]

I only see complex theories here...
It goes super deep...
But does it work in practice?

The results are just more and more endless theories, more complex ,,individual problems" and people getting fatter, staying the same, or whatever... long years of talking and supplementing...

People who have some succes, are having if because of some super individual way that worked for them and not because of anything that could be ,, a peat way" or a general rule (like on keto, dont eat carbs and 95% of people have results (good or bad) but something happends and you have nowdays milions before and after photos from them, and it starts working fast... I asked this before, this forum takes so much of my energy and nothing trully works... and what works is not at all from this forum or peat... like NO COFFEE, taking iron, taking whey, not eating dairy, skiping meals, not to much salt and so on... all of that fixed me somewhat, but i cant say its from a peat diet or even a peat principle... this forum has not one general way at all, i get nothing here, always just 5 ,,oposite" advices... thats like no advice at all... and the peaty ones never work... many claim a lot of things and after a few months they swear different things... and so on... where is your proof that this is trully working?

I know its not everything about weightloss, but getting fater is 100% NOT IT! No before and after here, no proves, just high end bla bla

Sorry 4 the rant, i like many of you... :) its not like youre bad people, its the oposite, super smart and nice people, but i think the forum is to much bla bla and its not that helpful in practice/in real life, but nice theories

I actually got significantly worse after Peating. It made me really OCD, probably made my amygdala more sensitive and messing with my gut was kinda the final straw on top of a pile of stress that gave me brutal (still occuring) insomnia. Additionally, ramping up my sugar intake also depleted my b vitamins which who knows what that did.

A couple things that was actually helpful was when I started emailing dr. peat himself. He suggested Propranolol for run away heart rate, which worked way better than the standard issue Metoporol and also mentioning increasing my potassium.

I def think there is really useful things in the Peat forum, but tread lightly and be careful in your supplementations and approaches. Peat himself has simplified and reduced most of his recommendations the older and wiser he has gotten.

 

[Sam321]

I also tried 1 - 2 mg melatonin and it just made my absurd and usually abstract dreams even more vivid.

It didn't have any noticeable effect on sleep onset or sleep duration.

Although other people have had completely different experiences.

I always dream of snakes for some reason.
So many snakes lol.

I once had an Austrailian approach me and my GF on a nude beach. He had a snake tattooed on his D. Dude, tried to pick up my girlfriend in front of me. lol. We chased his strange crocodile dundee **** away.

 

[SOMO]

He’s still going strong...

He's going strong at gaining massive weight and ruining his metabolism.

Look at his stomach, even his FAT is Red and inflamed. The other skin on his body is normal, but the fat on his stomach is bright pink so that area is high in prostaglandins, so he must have accumulated a high level of PUFA in his abdominal area.

It's been 1 year since this wacky experiment of his and does he look any different? He says he wasn't concerned with losing weigth on this experiment, but what when you're as big as he is, you SHOULD be concerned with vanity/losing weight.

The only reason this buffoon keeps up the low-carb/carnivore nonsense with his diet is because he's:

A. Too Proud to admit that Keto has completely failed him and he's been on this diet for YEARS. At least a decade. You think by 10 years you'd notice some positive effect on the body, and I mean a noticeable physical effect, not something esoteric or religious like "I feel as though the cells in my gut are feeling a bit more energized and aligned with the starts." Something that can be measured, like waist circumference is a better measure.

B. Because Keto is a cult and Jimmy is addicted to those KETO BUCKS from people who will buy his materials/books/cruises regardless of whether Keto personally works for him - and will be for you. He doesn't even have to demonstrate that Keto works for himself (it clearly doesn't) to continue selling books on doing Keto.

 

[Sefton10]

He's going strong at gaining massive weight and ruining his metabolism.

Look at his stomach, even his FAT is Red and inflamed. The other skin on his body is normal, but the fat on his stomach is bright pink so that area is high in prostaglandins, so he must have accumulated a high level of PUFA in his abdominal area.

It's been 1 year since this wacky experiment of his and does he look any different? He says he wasn't concerned with losing weigth on this experiment, but what when you're as big as he is, you SHOULD be concerned with vanity/losing weight.

The only reason this buffoon keeps up the low-carb/carnivore nonsense with his diet is because he's:

A. Too Proud to admit that Keto has completely failed him and he's been on this diet for YEARS. At least a decade. You think by 10 years you'd notice some positive effect on the body, and I mean a noticeable physical effect, not something esoteric or religious like "I feel as though the cells in my gut are feeling a bit more energized and aligned with the starts." Something that can be measured, like waist circumference is a better measure.

B. Because Keto is a cult and Jimmy is addicted to those KETO BUCKS from people who will buy his materials/books/cruises regardless of whether Keto personally works for him - and will be for you. He doesn't even have to demonstrate that Keto works for himself (it clearly doesn't) to continue selling books on doing Keto.

It genuinely blows my mind he’s still low carb/carnivore and fasting after all this time. Absolute insanity.

 

[eugenics4dumies]

I did low carb for 4 years. I went from 215 lbs (female, 5'6) to 155lbs. It gave me sort of a "skinny fat" look. Even when doing weight training.
Towards the end, I kept feeling worse and worse. Waking up feeling hung over even though I didn't drink, cold Intolerance and cold extremities getting worse and worse, no energy, anxiety attacks, mood swings, and stalled weight loss even when I eventually had slowly cut down to about 1k cal per day.
As soon as I found Peat's work, I started adding in fruit and honey, and saw a great improvement in all symptoms within the first two weeks, and maintained my weight.
While I was low carb, I was very proud of it. I thought sugar was the devil and that I ate better than everyone else because I didn't consume it. I had all the keto arguments memorized and would parrot them.
*There's no way that, when I was having these symptoms, I would have brought them up to anyone while talking about diet.. because this would just make me look wrong about my way of eating.*
This is why, it's now very hard for me to take someone's before and after photos and testimonial at face value. There's a lot you're not seeing.
I apply this concept to peating now as well. Just because someone here may say something is so super healthy and the only way to do it, doesn't mean that's true for me or even true for them.

Ray himself says to do what works for you. Some people have to learn this the hard way. (like myself apparently)