Where Are The Before And Afters In This , Peat World"?

[MatheusPN]

What i am saying is that most people do not really follow or fully understand what Ray says like you said eating refined sugar is a good advice IF you know how to use it most people here don't.

Supplemental hormones and vitamins CAN be a good thing which means that under certain conditions it can be usefull but you see people on this forum slamming pregnenolone and progesterone like its candy for no apparent reason whatsoever.

Also Ray peat is not an all knowing god he is just a man like all of us and he can just be wrong about some things which is something that most people on this forum never consider.

Another problem with this forum is some people deify people like haidut but haidut despite all his knowledge is neither Ray peat nor a doctor.

And yes i do believe that Ray's logic about boosting metabolism indefinitely is false nature doesn't work like that in my opinion nature is a balanced ecosystem of unity.

If nature worked in an indefinite improvement manner we would all have skin made from steel and shoot lasers from our eyes and regrow limbs and be immortal.

Yeah, Ray isn't a god, even being better than the christian god, he wouldn't like to be an authoritative figure, he have aversion to authoritarianism. Most people on this forum consider he doesn't know all truth and can be wrong in some affirmations
Is a very nice thing that Haidut isn't a doctor. Doctors are more suicidal than the rest of the population

In your last two paragraphs, its clear there that you don't understand Ray philosophy or understand him lightly, levianamente because he never said things alike

 

[milkboi]

I have to totally disagree with you.
Yes, from one perspective, diamonds are rare and hard to get.... but if you did, you become rich for life.
This (this forum) is the only hope we have, unless you`re married for a doctor or a scientist with 20 years of experience and extremely open minded. I doubt, however...
Here you can see how folks experiment and what works, or not.
Here you are given, for free, digested scientific research (I, for example, don`t have the brains, neither the energy, to dive into it) and I`ll be eternally grateful to those who sacrifice their time and stamina for people who live 10 000 miles away and they never met.
There are many experienced members, who, at least, will try to get into your problem and offer (sometimes working) solution.
There is, also, a lot of compassion and friendliness.
I wish this place existed 25 years ago...

 

[bennyha]

People are getting too deep in the forest/weeds.

All that matters is metabolism. Nothing else does in the grand scheme of things. 85 bpm pulse and 98.6F temp that's it. If you can consistently get that, you're winning. You will have to play with the minutae to some degree to achieve this, true, but you know you're either doing something right or wrong quite quickly via these measurements.

Fasting or no fasting? Try both and check temps and pulses. End of the discussion.
Dairy or no dairy? Try both and checks temps and pulses. End of discussion.

See where I'm going with this? There is no longer confusion via this strategy. Or at least, not as much. I haven't yet perfected my own diet just yet, but this is helping me systematically discover what helps and what doesn't.

I have found too that foods that are bloating are usually not helpful. I weigh myself multiple times a day and if my weight suddenly shoots up, I know I ate something not good for me. For example starch reliably bloats me.

I know you keep saying this over and over, but I don’t know if I know of anyone who wakes up those ideal numbers of yours everyday. Yeah you might be cramming loads of food to get your temps and pulse to those magical numbers but I highly doubt it’s as important as you’re making it out to be imo

 

[redsun]

I know you keep saying this over and over, but I don’t know if I know of anyone who wakes up those ideal numbers of yours everyday. Yeah you might be cramming loads of food to get your temps and pulse to those magical numbers but I highly doubt it’s as important as you’re making it out to be imo

It is incredibly easy to maintain and even increase temp above 98.6 F and 85 bpm. Large quantities of fatty, salted meat, non offensive starches like white rice, caffeine, low water content sugar sources, drinking only to thirst. Means next to nothing. I can get my temp to 99+ easily as well as high bpm. Guess what happens, I gain weight. Feels good until you stop fitting into your pants. And as you gain weight, your calories burned daily also increases slowly(legs carrying extra weight, all movement costs more energy because you weigh more, etc) and you need even more and more food to feel that good, vicious cycle. There is literally no sense in such a method. Temperature is a marker and gives a sign of how things are going. Pulse should be relaxed pulse(mine is in 70s rested) unless you are actively doing something. There are multiple markers that one should look out for such as:

Good body composition which means normal body fat levels, steady energy, good blood flow, decent muscle mass(men especially, but natural mass is different from weightlifter muscles), healthy skin, flat stomach(sign of low inflammation, endotoxin, strong stomach acid), lack of edema, steady blood sugar(similar to energy levels), good mood, strong resistance to stress etc... Perfect temp and pulse will not necessarily give you any of the above and chasing temp and pulse through calorie intake makes some of the above ideal markers impossible to achieve.

 

[Cirion]

I know you keep saying this over and over, but I don’t know if I know of anyone who wakes up those ideal numbers of yours everyday. Yeah you might be cramming loads of food to get your temps and pulse to those magical numbers but I highly doubt it’s as important as you’re making it out to be imo

Very important and also very doable. I also don't care about whether other people can or do it, because I'm not interested in average health. I'm interested in optimal health. What others do is of no interest to me tbh.

See my latest post on my data thread almost proving it can be done every day (Every week I get closer). My latest data dump is from 7-day averaged data, so it all but eliminates the scatter from a day-to-day basis too, so I have a lot of trust in it. Even more trust once I get to 14, 28+ day averages (Which I plan to, once I have more data). And when I can finally push my averages up to the 98.6, 85 marks. That's where the real money will be at.

Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

My quote from there:

I now think 7 day averaged data is where the money and real discovery is at so to speak. Even 3 day seems to be too volatile to glean extremely helpful info from. A full week I think removes a LOT of the "scatter" and "one off" days that are bad.

I looked at my top week as gauged by best 7 day avg temp, best 7 day avg pulse, and best 7 day weight loss:

(All #'s are 7 day averaged)

123 gram protein (10.6%), 1,012 gram carbs (87.1%), 28 gram fat (2.4%), 4,656 calories

Temperature = 98.3F, pulse = 82.6, Weight change = -0.37 lb (a day, so x7 = 2.45 lb total)

It is nice to see the data basically confirming some of my suspicions. Some protein, not too little but not too much, some fat... but not too much, and not too little, and also veritable mountains of carbs and overall calories.

It is incredibly easy to maintain and even increase temp above 98.6 F and 85 bpm. Large quantities of fatty, salted meat, non offensive starches like white rice, caffeine, low water content sugar sources, drinking only to thirst. Means next to nothing. I can get my temp to 99+ easily as well as high bpm. Guess what happens, I gain weight. Feels good until you stop fitting into your pants. And as you gain weight, your calories burned daily also increases slowly(legs carrying extra weight, all movement costs more energy because you weigh more, etc) and you need even more and more food to feel that good, vicious cycle. There is literally no sense in such a method. Temperature is a marker and gives a sign of how things are going. Pulse should be relaxed pulse(mine is in 70s rested) unless you are actively doing something. There are multiple markers that one should look out for such as:

Good body composition which means normal body fat levels, steady energy, good blood flow, decent muscle mass(men especially, but natural mass is different from weightlifter muscles), healthy skin, flat stomach(sign of low inflammation, endotoxin, strong stomach acid), lack of edema, steady blood sugar(similar to energy levels), good mood, strong resistance to stress etc... Perfect temp and pulse will not necessarily give you any of the above and chasing temp and pulse through calorie intake makes some of the above ideal markers impossible to achieve.

Sorry but I just simply disagree with the first paragraph. I would agree with your second paragraph though, except for your last statement about temp and pulse. I'm not talking about the temp and pulses achieved during the day. I almost go so far as to say those # don't even matter. What matters is temp and pulse waking up. Almost no one gets 98.6F and 85 bpm waking temps and pulses. Anyone can boost their temps and pulses artificially in the short term like you said just from overfeeding on ANYTHING even poor choices of food, and exercise can also boost it up short term. Doesn't mean it's helpful. So on that, I actually agree. Your example of lots of fatty salted meat is actually the worst thing to do for metabolism, I have come to find. So is starch. Not surprised you gained weight then. Yes it does boost your temp and pulse in the short run but in the long run it actually harms your metabolism. That's why the waking #'s are more telling than the temps and pulses immediately after eating or drinking something. If you do it right you will NOT gain weight, you will in fact lose it. So yes, if you're gaining weight you are doing something wrong 100% agreed. Ray himself has said people with 85 bpm RESTING pulse are healthier with higher IQ. If you disagree you aren't disagreeing with me but Ray. That's totally fair if you do disagree with Ray as I myself disagree with him on a few things, but on this I find he is 100% spot on. I find myself literally smarter and higher brain functioning when my pulse and temps are on point.

I am a visionary and I have always been a "go against the flow kinda guy" my whole life. You have no idea how giddy I am to prove all of mainstream medicine and fitness and everyone wrong about "CICO". It's my life mission at this point lol. And I'm sooo close at this point. Just a little bit more data and it'll be a sealed deal... I get it -- it is hard for people to let go of ideas like "CICO" because we have been so brainwashed our whole lives. But now I realize CICO for what it is, complete utter garbage meant to subjucate the populace via making people hypothyroid so that they don't question the government or other authorities. A hypothyroid populace is easy to control, and they surely don't want that. So here you go - Cut calories to lose weight, but also lose your mind and willingness to question authority. I think so many people would be less willing to put up with BS if we were all healthy w/ perfect hormone levels. I know I would be, even less than I already am =P

 

[redsun]

Very important and also very doable. I also don't care about whether other people can or do it, because I'm not interested in average health. I'm interested in optimal health. What others do is of no interest to me tbh.

See my latest post on my data thread almost proving it can be done every day (Every week I get closer). My latest data dump is from 7-day averaged data, so it all but eliminates the scatter from a day-to-day basis too, so I have a lot of trust in it. Even more trust once I get to 14, 28+ day averages (Which I plan to, once I have more data).

Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

My quote from there:





Sorry but I just simply disagree with the first paragraph. I would agree with your second paragraph though, except for your last statement about temp and pulse. I'm not talking about the temp and pulses achieved during the day. I almost go so far as to say those # don't even matter. What matters is temp and pulse waking up. Almost no one gets 98.6F and 85 bpm waking temps and pulses. Your example of lots of fatty salted meat is actually the worst thing to do for metabolism, I have come to find. Yes it does boost your temp and pulse in the short run but in the long run it actually harms your metabolism. That's why the waking #'s are more telling than the temps and pulses immediately after eating or drinking something. If you do it right you will NOT gain weight, you will in fact lose it. So yes, if you're gaining weight you are doing something wrong 100% agreed. Ray himself has said people with 85 bpm RESTING pulse are healthier with higher IQ.

Saturated animal fat from fatty fresh meat is incredibly beneficial for metabolism. Muscle tissue burn fats at rest, saturated fats, specifically animal(not dairy) fats are very healthy and preferable for metabolism and do not have the fattening effect dairy has on most people. Some how I am not concerned with your disagreement of those particular food choices, this is not the only way to do it there are many ways. There is nothing particularly anti-peat about the diet either.

Healthy people are using fats and glucose as fuel simultaneously in a harmonious metabolism as certain tissues prefer certain fuel, do not give me this nonsense that naturally occuring animal fats are not healthy. You are burning fatty acids at all times, if you dont eat enough fat needed to daily for fuel, its taken from body fat or, you trigger fat synthesis from carbs, especially once we are talking about gigantic carb levels such as yours.

You have come to find nothing actually. There is a small subset of people that may need to consume 1kg of carb intake a day(according to your cronometer you are getting around that much), elite athletes, those who exercise enough, hyperthyroid folk possibly. Your opinion means very little when you believe for even a second average sedentary folk or even above average natural bodybuilders, athletic people need that many carbohydrates, scratch that, that many calories that you end up eating daily. Only world class on season athletes working hard constantly may need that much.

 

[lampofred]

Very important and also very doable. I also don't care about whether other people can or do it, because I'm not interested in average health. I'm interested in optimal health. What others do is of no interest to me tbh.

See my latest post on my data thread almost proving it can be done every day (Every week I get closer). My latest data dump is from 7-day averaged data, so it all but eliminates the scatter from a day-to-day basis too, so I have a lot of trust in it. Even more trust once I get to 14, 28+ day averages (Which I plan to, once I have more data). And when I can finally push my averages up to the 98.6, 85 marks. That's where the real money will be at.

Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

My quote from there:





Sorry but I just simply disagree with the first paragraph. I would agree with your second paragraph though, except for your last statement about temp and pulse. I'm not talking about the temp and pulses achieved during the day. I almost go so far as to say those # don't even matter. What matters is temp and pulse waking up. Almost no one gets 98.6F and 85 bpm waking temps and pulses. Anyone can boost their temps and pulses artificially in the short term like you said just from overfeeding on ANYTHING even poor choices of food, and exercise can also boost it up short term. Doesn't mean it's helpful. So on that, I actually agree. Your example of lots of fatty salted meat is actually the worst thing to do for metabolism, I have come to find. So is starch. Not surprised you gained weight then. Yes it does boost your temp and pulse in the short run but in the long run it actually harms your metabolism. That's why the waking #'s are more telling than the temps and pulses immediately after eating or drinking something. If you do it right you will NOT gain weight, you will in fact lose it. So yes, if you're gaining weight you are doing something wrong 100% agreed. Ray himself has said people with 85 bpm RESTING pulse are healthier with higher IQ. If you disagree you aren't disagreeing with me but Ray. That's totally fair if you do disagree with Ray as I myself disagree with him on a few things, but on this I find he is 100% spot on. I find myself literally smarter and higher brain functioning when my pulse and temps are on point.

I am a visionary and I have always been a "go against the flow kinda guy" my whole life. You have no idea how giddy I am to prove all of mainstream medicine and fitness and everyone wrong about "CICO". It's my life mission at this point lol. And I'm sooo close at this point. Just a little bit more data and it'll be a sealed deal... I get it -- it is hard for people to let go of ideas like "CICO" because we have been so brainwashed our whole lives. But now I realize CICO for what it is, complete utter garbage meant to subjucate the populace via making people hypothyroid so that they don't question the government or other authorities. A hypothyroid populace is easy to control, and they surely don't want that. So here you go - Cut calories to lose weight, but also lose your mind and willingness to question authority. I think so many people would be less willing to put up with BS if we were all healthy w/ perfect hormone levels. I know I would be, even less than I already am =P

I think it's more important to optimize CO2 than it is to optimize pulse and temps, at least at first. I think focusing on temps and pulse as the priority will cause a lot of crashes (a week of doing great, then a down week, then an up week, etc.) because CO2 is basic stabilizing, balancing, "long-term" hormone. It's different when RP says to increase temps and pulse because he talks about doing it via thyroid, which by definition will raise CO2, whereas doing it via food means the metabolism increase is being sustained by either cortisol or fat oxidation, which aren't associated with as much CO2 production as a pure thyroid driven increase in temps/pulse.

Also increasing temps and pulse will drastically increase the effects of estrogen and PUFA in your body. The natural lowering of body temperature with age is a protective mechanism against too much excitation. The only exception is when the metabolism increase happens via thyroid supplementation because the CO2 protects against the effects of estrogen and PUFA.

 

[Cirion]

Saturated animal fat from fatty fresh meat is incredibly beneficial for metabolism. Muscle tissue burn fats at rest, saturated fats, specifically animal(not dairy) fats are very healthy and preferable for metabolism and do not have the fattening effect dairy has on most people. Some how I am not concerned with your disagreement of those particular food choices, this is not the only way to do it there are many ways. There is nothing particularly anti-peat about the diet either.

Healthy people are using fats and glucose as fuel simultaneously in a harmonious metabolism as certain tissues prefer certain fuel, do not give me this nonsense that naturally occuring animal fats are not healthy. You are burning fatty acids at all times, if you dont eat enough fat needed to daily for fuel, its taken from body fat or, you trigger fat synthesis from carbs, especially once we are talking about gigantic carb levels such as yours.

You have come to find nothing actually. There is a small subset of people that may need to consume 1kg of carb intake a day(according to your cronometer you are getting around that much), elite athletes, those who exercise enough, hyperthyroid folk possibly. Your opinion means very little when you believe for even a second average sedentary folk or even above average natural bodybuilders, athletic people need that many carbohydrates, scratch that, that many calories that you end up eating daily. Only world class on season athletes working hard constantly may need that much.

My data speaks for itself. I just find it rather strange that you're literally arguing against my data, without providing data yourself? So, unless you give me proof of what you said with your own data, I'm done discussing.

But to be fair--I will say, that for someone leaner, more dietary fat may be more appropriate. I'll find that out for sure once I get lean again. All I'll say on that for now is that really low fat needs to be intaken if you're fat like I currently am and that fat intake may increase as you get leaner.

I just find it so surprising that I'm arguing using Ray Peat's own principles, on a Ray Peat inspired forum lol. Literally, Ray would tell you the same thing I'm telling you - And that is--Increase CO2, increase temps and pulses/optimize thyroid and metabolism, get healed, cure hypo, and get lean.

If you read Ray's articles on CO2 and lactic acid etc you will understand why ultra high carbohydrate intake makes perfect sense, especially in hypothyroid. When you are hypothyroid, energy is wasted in the form of lactic acid and very little CO2 is created. Therefore, more carbohydrate must be intaken to increase CO2 to appropriate levels. Someone healthier will generate less lactic acid and therefore need less carbohydrate (probably, again I'll know for sure when i lean out).

I think it's more important to optimize CO2 than it is to optimize pulse and temps, at least at first. I think focusing on temps and pulse as the priority will cause a lot of crashes (a week of doing great, then a down week, then an up week, etc.) because CO2 is basic stabilizing, balancing, "long-term" hormone. It's different when RP says to increase temps and pulse because he talks about doing it via thyroid, which by definition will raise CO2, whereas doing it via food means the metabolism increase is being sustained by either cortisol or fat oxidation, which aren't associated with as much CO2 production as a pure thyroid driven increase in temps/pulse.

Also increasing temps and pulse will drastically increase the effects of estrogen and PUFA in your body. The natural lowering of body temperature with age is a protective mechanism against too much excitation. The only exception is when the metabolism increase happens via thyroid supplementation because the CO2 protects against the effects of estrogen and PUFA.

Actually, CO2 goes hand in hand with temps and pulses, and it's how I (indirectly) in fact measure CO2. But, having a capnograph to directly measure CO2 would be ideal, and I would measure CO2 also if I could. You're actually agreeing with me but just don't realize it =P

which by definition will raise CO2, whereas doing it via food means the metabolism increase is being sustained by either cortisol or fat oxidation, which aren't associated with as much CO2 production as a pure thyroid driven increase in temps/pulse.

Also increasing temps and pulse will drastically increase the effects of estrogen and PUFA in your body. The natural lowering of body temperature with age is a protective mechanism against too much excitation. The only exception is when the metabolism increase happens via thyroid supplementation because the CO2 protects against the effects of estrogen and PUFA.

Where in the world do you get this information/idea from though?

Increasing metabolism from food neither brings up cortisol nor fat oxidation in fact it does the precise opposite, assuming you pick good food choices. Increasing temps and pulses will in fact reduce the effects of estrogens and PUFA, not increase.

Thyroid is actually garbage compared to food. I tried T3 for a while. It made me worse. Food is in fact superior to thyroid supplementation. I have personal experience to show for that.

The decrease of metabolism with age is damaging, not helpful, it's ultimately one of the main reasons people die in old age. I plan to maintain high metabolism till the day I die.

 

[bennyha]

It is incredibly easy to maintain and even increase temp above 98.6 F and 85 bpm. Large quantities of fatty, salted meat, non offensive starches like white rice, caffeine, low water content sugar sources, drinking only to thirst. Means next to nothing. I can get my temp to 99+ easily as well as high bpm. Guess what happens, I gain weight. Feels good until you stop fitting into your pants. And as you gain weight, your calories burned daily also increases slowly(legs carrying extra weight, all movement costs more energy because you weigh more, etc) and you need even more and more food to feel that good, vicious cycle. There is literally no sense in such a method. Temperature is a marker and gives a sign of how things are going. Pulse should be relaxed pulse(mine is in 70s rested) unless you are actively doing something. There are multiple markers that one should look out for such as:

Good body composition which means normal body fat levels, steady energy, good blood flow, decent muscle mass(men especially, but natural mass is different from weightlifter muscles), healthy skin, flat stomach(sign of low inflammation, endotoxin, strong stomach acid), lack of edema, steady blood sugar(similar to energy levels), good mood, strong resistance to stress etc... Perfect temp and pulse will not necessarily give you any of the above and chasing temp and pulse through calorie intake makes some of the above ideal markers impossible to achieve.

Same here. The period where I was chasing these numbers was the only time in my life I gained significant weight. And I also didn’t feel one bit different waking up at 97.9 than I did at 98.6. Plus I wasn’t a fatass and all bloated. I used to ask my friends who are very healthy to take their temps and pulse even for one week and not one of them was a waking 98.6 with a 85 pulse. These numbers seem arbitrary. I’d rather go by hair tests and inflammation markers and how I feel than trying to get some magical number. I agree having a waking temp of 96.7 and a pulse in the 50’s isn’t a good sign. But having a waking temp around 97.8 and a pulse in the 70’s isn’t that much different than 98.6 and 85. Just my opinion

 

[bennyha]

Very important and also very doable. I also don't care about whether other people can or do it, because I'm not interested in average health. I'm interested in optimal health. What others do is of no interest to me tbh.

See my latest post on my data thread almost proving it can be done every day (Every week I get closer). My latest data dump is from 7-day averaged data, so it all but eliminates the scatter from a day-to-day basis too, so I have a lot of trust in it. Even more trust once I get to 14, 28+ day averages (Which I plan to, once I have more data). And when I can finally push my averages up to the 98.6, 85 marks. That's where the real money will be at.

Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

My quote from there:





Sorry but I just simply disagree with the first paragraph. I would agree with your second paragraph though, except for your last statement about temp and pulse. I'm not talking about the temp and pulses achieved during the day. I almost go so far as to say those # don't even matter. What matters is temp and pulse waking up. Almost no one gets 98.6F and 85 bpm waking temps and pulses. Anyone can boost their temps and pulses artificially in the short term like you said just from overfeeding on ANYTHING even poor choices of food, and exercise can also boost it up short term. Doesn't mean it's helpful. So on that, I actually agree. Your example of lots of fatty salted meat is actually the worst thing to do for metabolism, I have come to find. So is starch. Not surprised you gained weight then. Yes it does boost your temp and pulse in the short run but in the long run it actually harms your metabolism. That's why the waking #'s are more telling than the temps and pulses immediately after eating or drinking something. If you do it right you will NOT gain weight, you will in fact lose it. So yes, if you're gaining weight you are doing something wrong 100% agreed. Ray himself has said people with 85 bpm RESTING pulse are healthier with higher IQ. If you disagree you aren't disagreeing with me but Ray. That's totally fair if you do disagree with Ray as I myself disagree with him on a few things, but on this I find he is 100% spot on. I find myself literally smarter and higher brain functioning when my pulse and temps are on point.

I am a visionary and I have always been a "go against the flow kinda guy" my whole life. You have no idea how giddy I am to prove all of mainstream medicine and fitness and everyone wrong about "CICO". It's my life mission at this point lol. And I'm sooo close at this point. Just a little bit more data and it'll be a sealed deal... I get it -- it is hard for people to let go of ideas like "CICO" because we have been so brainwashed our whole lives. But now I realize CICO for what it is, complete utter garbage meant to subjucate the populace via making people hypothyroid so that they don't question the government or other authorities. A hypothyroid populace is easy to control, and they surely don't want that. So here you go - Cut calories to lose weight, but also lose your mind and willingness to question authority. I think so many people would be less willing to put up with BS if we were all healthy w/ perfect hormone levels. I know I would be, even less than I already am =P

I don’t think waking with a temp of 98.6 and a pulse of 85 is the sign of amazing health like you do. I’ve tested myself obsessively for periods and eating loads of food raised it some days but I always felt like ***t. I’ve also asked people I trust to do it who were and still are in optimal health and they weren’t at those numbers either. You thinking optimal health is all about reaching these magical two numbers just seems really short sided in my opinion. I do hope it works for you and you get the results you’re hoping for though

 

[YourUniverse]

Very important and also very doable. I also don't care about whether other people can or do it, because I'm not interested in average health. I'm interested in optimal health. What others do is of no interest to me tbh.

See my latest post on my data thread almost proving it can be done every day (Every week I get closer). My latest data dump is from 7-day averaged data, so it all but eliminates the scatter from a day-to-day basis too, so I have a lot of trust in it. Even more trust once I get to 14, 28+ day averages (Which I plan to, once I have more data). And when I can finally push my averages up to the 98.6, 85 marks. That's where the real money will be at.

Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

My quote from there:





Sorry but I just simply disagree with the first paragraph. I would agree with your second paragraph though, except for your last statement about temp and pulse. I'm not talking about the temp and pulses achieved during the day. I almost go so far as to say those # don't even matter. What matters is temp and pulse waking up. Almost no one gets 98.6F and 85 bpm waking temps and pulses. Anyone can boost their temps and pulses artificially in the short term like you said just from overfeeding on ANYTHING even poor choices of food, and exercise can also boost it up short term. Doesn't mean it's helpful. So on that, I actually agree. Your example of lots of fatty salted meat is actually the worst thing to do for metabolism, I have come to find. So is starch. Not surprised you gained weight then. Yes it does boost your temp and pulse in the short run but in the long run it actually harms your metabolism. That's why the waking #'s are more telling than the temps and pulses immediately after eating or drinking something. If you do it right you will NOT gain weight, you will in fact lose it. So yes, if you're gaining weight you are doing something wrong 100% agreed. Ray himself has said people with 85 bpm RESTING pulse are healthier with higher IQ. If you disagree you aren't disagreeing with me but Ray. That's totally fair if you do disagree with Ray as I myself disagree with him on a few things, but on this I find he is 100% spot on. I find myself literally smarter and higher brain functioning when my pulse and temps are on point.

I am a visionary and I have always been a "go against the flow kinda guy" my whole life. You have no idea how giddy I am to prove all of mainstream medicine and fitness and everyone wrong about "CICO". It's my life mission at this point lol. And I'm sooo close at this point. Just a little bit more data and it'll be a sealed deal... I get it -- it is hard for people to let go of ideas like "CICO" because we have been so brainwashed our whole lives. But now I realize CICO for what it is, complete utter garbage meant to subjucate the populace via making people hypothyroid so that they don't question the government or other authorities. A hypothyroid populace is easy to control, and they surely don't want that. So here you go - Cut calories to lose weight, but also lose your mind and willingness to question authority. I think so many people would be less willing to put up with BS if we were all healthy w/ perfect hormone levels. I know I would be, even less than I already am =P

You're not disproving CICO though, you're increasing your metabolism which is letting you burn more calories. If you're losing weight at any number of calories, you are in a deficit. What you may be disproving are the calorie estimate equations, but not CICO. 4600 calories are perfectly reasonable for a 280 lbs Male to maintain his weight

 

[bennyha]

Very important and also very doable. I also don't care about whether other people can or do it, because I'm not interested in average health. I'm interested in optimal health. What others do is of no interest to me tbh.

See my latest post on my data thread almost proving it can be done every day (Every week I get closer). My latest data dump is from 7-day averaged data, so it all but eliminates the scatter from a day-to-day basis too, so I have a lot of trust in it. Even more trust once I get to 14, 28+ day averages (Which I plan to, once I have more data). And when I can finally push my averages up to the 98.6, 85 marks. That's where the real money will be at.

Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

My quote from there:





Sorry but I just simply disagree with the first paragraph. I would agree with your second paragraph though, except for your last statement about temp and pulse. I'm not talking about the temp and pulses achieved during the day. I almost go so far as to say those # don't even matter. What matters is temp and pulse waking up. Almost no one gets 98.6F and 85 bpm waking temps and pulses. Anyone can boost their temps and pulses artificially in the short term like you said just from overfeeding on ANYTHING even poor choices of food, and exercise can also boost it up short term. Doesn't mean it's helpful. So on that, I actually agree. Your example of lots of fatty salted meat is actually the worst thing to do for metabolism, I have come to find. So is starch. Not surprised you gained weight then. Yes it does boost your temp and pulse in the short run but in the long run it actually harms your metabolism. That's why the waking #'s are more telling than the temps and pulses immediately after eating or drinking something. If you do it right you will NOT gain weight, you will in fact lose it. So yes, if you're gaining weight you are doing something wrong 100% agreed. Ray himself has said people with 85 bpm RESTING pulse are healthier with higher IQ. If you disagree you aren't disagreeing with me but Ray. That's totally fair if you do disagree with Ray as I myself disagree with him on a few things, but on this I find he is 100% spot on. I find myself literally smarter and higher brain functioning when my pulse and temps are on point.

I am a visionary and I have always been a "go against the flow kinda guy" my whole life. You have no idea how giddy I am to prove all of mainstream medicine and fitness and everyone wrong about "CICO". It's my life mission at this point lol. And I'm sooo close at this point. Just a little bit more data and it'll be a sealed deal... I get it -- it is hard for people to let go of ideas like "CICO" because we have been so brainwashed our whole lives. But now I realize CICO for what it is, complete utter garbage meant to subjucate the populace via making people hypothyroid so that they don't question the government or other authorities. A hypothyroid populace is easy to control, and they surely don't want that. So here you go - Cut calories to lose weight, but also lose your mind and willingness to question authority. I think so many people would be less willing to put up with BS if we were all healthy w/ perfect hormone levels. I know I would be, even less than I already am =P

Beef raises my temps and pulse significantly compared to sugars and fruits and everything else. By a lot. My waking temps and pulse are much higher when consuming lots of salty red meat. So I agree with the guy who suggested it above. Everyone is different so what works for you isn’t going to work for you and vice versa. That’s why making blanket statements is not ideal

 

[Cirion]

Same here. The period where I was chasing these numbers was the only time in my life I gained significant weight. And I also didn’t feel one bit different waking up at 97.9 than I did at 98.6. Plus I wasn’t a fatass and all bloated. I used to ask my friends who are very healthy to take their temps and pulse even for one week and not one of them was a waking 98.6 with a 85 pulse. These numbers seem arbitrary. I’d rather go by hair tests and inflammation markers and how I feel than trying to get some magical number. I agree having a waking temp of 96.7 and a pulse in the 50’s isn’t a good sign. But having a waking temp around 97.8 and a pulse in the 70’s isn’t that much different than 98.6 and 85. Just my opinion

What was your pulse with waking up at 98.6? You must take both together not just one or the other. Speak for yourself man, to me the difference between 97.8 and 98.6 is INSANE. Literally, 97.8 I want to punch someone in the face, 98.6 I feel like I can conquer the world (like tonight, after 900+ carbs )

Good for your friends. I still think it isn't optimal, but to each their own. I do also track how I feel. And I always feel best on the high temp high pulse days. Always. It isn't all just about loads of foods, it's about loads of the correct foods. I absolutely will also feel bad if I eat loads of the wrong foods.

You're not disproving CICO though, you're increasing your metabolism which is letting you burn more calories. If you're losing weight at any number of calories, you are in a deficit. What you may be disproving are the calorie estimate equations, but not CICO. 4600 calories are perfectly reasonable for a 280 lbs Male to maintain his weight

My point is the point of caloric deficit is an extremely fluid, moving target and can be shifted to an incredible degree to the point you can gain weight on 2000 calories (or less) and lose it on 5000+.

Beef raises my temps and pulse significantly compared to sugars and fruits and everything else. By a lot. My waking temps and pulse are much higher when consuming lots of salty red meat. So I agree with the guy who suggested it above. Everyone is different so what works for you isn’t going to work for you and vice versa. That’s why making blanket statements is not ideal

Beef can increase your temps incredibly, short term, and I still eat it - but much smaller protions (8 oz seems to be my limit). Any more than 8 oz and my waking temps and pulses the next day take a huge hit.

Again, there's a big difference between short term pulse and temp increase and long term pulse and temp increase (aka waking temps and pulses).

What's funny is that I literally used to think the same as everyone disagreeing with me - that temps and pulses didn't matter, until I realized it was WAKING temps and pulses that matter. Because yeah, I was getting fat despite high temps and pulses in the day. But then, I realized, my waking temps and pulses were bad, and once I started fixing those, THEN things started to improve.

 

[redsun]

My data speaks for itself. I just find it rather strange that you're literally arguing against my data, without providing data yourself? So, unless you give me proof of what you said with your own data, I'm done discussing.

But to be fair--I will say, that for someone leaner, more dietary fat may be more appropriate. I'll find that out for sure once I get lean again. All I'll say on that for now is that really low fat needs to be intaken if you're fat like I currently am and that fat intake may increase as you get leaner.

I just find it so surprising that I'm arguing using Ray Peat's own principles, on a Ray Peat inspired forum lol. Literally, Ray would tell you the same thing I'm telling you - And that is--Increase CO2, increase temps and pulses/optimize thyroid and metabolism, get healed, cure hypo, and get lean.

If you read Ray's articles on CO2 and lactic acid etc you will understand why ultra high carbohydrate intake makes perfect sense, especially in hypothyroid. When you are hypothyroid, energy is wasted in the form of lactic acid and very little CO2 is created. Therefore, more carbohydrate must be intaken to increase CO2 to appropriate levels. Someone healthier will generate less lactic acid and therefore need less carbohydrate (probably, again I'll know for sure when i lean out).



Actually, CO2 goes hand in hand with temps and pulses, and it's how I (indirectly) in fact measure CO2. But, having a capnograph to directly measure CO2 would be ideal, and I would measure CO2 also if I could. You're actually agreeing with me but just don't realize it =P

Except you believe calories/overfeeding carbohydrates are the primary factor which is wrong. Major factor yes, you should be eating according to your caloric needs. Your cronometer does not show nutrient intake but I do know that you likely do not comprehend the sheer amount of B-vitamins, minerals, and protein you need to utilize 1 kilogram of carbohydrates daily. Your foods most definitely do not even come close to necessary quantities.

You talk of CO2 and yet thiamine is a very potent carbonic anhydrase inhibitor along with biotin and b-vitamins generally speaking as they are necessary for oxidative metabolism. I have had personal extreme success with high dosing of thiamine in increasing CO2 as have many others, and I didnt have to slide mountains of carbs down my throat. Our modern world diet we grew up in has left the majority of us chronically B-vitamin deficient, not too mention B1 deficient. Overeating is not necessary to maintain CO2, proper oxidative metabolism is the key, certain vitamins are necessary to help restore CO2 production to where it should be. You also seem to forget that Peat himself mentioned that taking thyroid reduced his calorie requirements, because it increases metabolic efficiency. And since thyroid is literally the holy grail in terms of a sign of proper metabolism what he said taught me large amounts of unnecessary calories, especially ingested because of one's insatiable appetite is a big red flag, a terrible sign of mishap, wasteful, poor metabolism. You need to remedy unnaturally high carbohydrate intake, not embrace it(unless you were constantly depleting glycogen through exercise, which you are not).

I hope to god you are taking significant quantities of supplemented b-vitamins, and likely minerals, especially zinc because reaching only bare minimum in zinc is bad news with all those carbohydrates. You are not providing enough zinc with those particular foods, ground beef providing the only actual moderately absorbable form.

No, the solution for wasting carbohydrates and increased lactic acid formation instead of CO2 is not to eat gargantuan amounts of carbohydrates... More carbs will just increase lactic acid and CO2 even more. You will never tip the scales away from lactic acid towards mostly CO2 without doing what is necessary to restore proper oxidative metabolism.

Calories/Carbohydrates are meaningless in restoring metabolism when you ignore the cogs that must turn to make oxidative metabolism work, to make one efficiently metabolize energy, especially carbohydrates. Vitamins, especially thiamine and biotin, play a major role and since I recall you mentioning dropping the supplements, there is literally no hope of restoring proper metabolism based on your choice of foods which do not provide enough nutrients for your body to build up its own stores, not to mention have enough to just burn what food you give it daily properly.

 

[Cirion]

I actually do agree with a lot of what you say. Vitamins and minerals are important. The only refined sugars I eat are from maybe a mexican cola or two a day that's it. Lately the rest of my food is fruit, maple syrup, some rice, orange juice, beef, gelatin, sometimes dried fruits, honey, coconut oil etc. But I don't think you need to intake supplements as long as you eat little to no refined foods. But I don't think any supplement, not even thyroid, can recover a metabolism without sufficient food intake. That's from my personal experience. And that's where we disagree. Do you know anyone on these forums that recovered from supplements? I sure don't. Yeah Ray thinks you can just throw thyroid at the wall and get better. That's really one of the only things I disagree with him on, well that and milk.

See you think calories are the least important, I think it's the most important. Calories are fuel. Without fuel, your body doesn't work. Quite simple really. I'm not worried about micro nutrients because I eat wholesome, nutrient dense foods which means I have no need for supplements.

I am in fact shifting the scales, as you say, towards CO2 and that's because I eat high calorie and high carbohydrate which means I generate lots of CO2. Taking thyroid without sufficient calories is like putting a sports-car engine on a normal car, trying to run on empty and wonder why you ran out of fuel so quickly. In fact it is FOOD - aka CALORIES - is the ONLY way to refuel your body. Period! Thyroid might be able to help a LITTLE, but you can't get away from FOOD!

I'm gonna guess you aren't overweight too. Being overweight changes the game SIGNIFICANTLY. I probably need over twice as many carbohydrates because of this. It's easy to say you only need 500g carb to generate enough CO2 when you aren't wasting carbs on lactic acid like I am. Again it is precisely because most of the carbs turn to lactic acid that I must eat more, not less carbs! Yes, it's true that lactic acid isn't helpful, and the increase in carbs can (and does) generate more lactic acid, but IMO and in my experience, it is far MORE dangerous to be deficient in CO2 than it is to be in a surplus of lactic acid AND a surplus of CO2. When the body has enough CO2, its enough to counteract the negatives of lactic acid, based upon my experience.

It's the same argument people make against restricting carbs when you have cancer. I've never had cancer and hope I never do, but if I ever did, I'd take the Nathan Hatch approach of eating to improve metabolism, not fast and hope I kill the cancer too, that's the stupid way out IMO.

 

[redsun]

I actually do agree with a lot of what you say. Vitamins and minerals are important. The only refined sugars I eat are from maybe a mexican cola or two a day that's it. Lately the rest of my food is fruit, maple syrup, some rice, orange juice, beef, gelatin, sometimes dried fruits, honey, coconut oil etc. But I don't think you need to intake supplements as long as you eat little to no refined foods. But I don't think any supplement, not even thyroid, can recover a metabolism without sufficient food intake. That's from my personal experience. And that's where we disagree. Do you know anyone on these forums that recovered from supplements? I sure don't. Yeah Ray thinks you can just throw thyroid at the wall and get better. That's really one of the only things I disagree with him on, well that and milk.

Unrefined carb sources dont necessarily contain enough b vitamins to oxidize the carbs properly. This is true for many fruits, orange juice is one of the very few popular peat carb sources that may provide enough thiamine for the amount sugar and some here do not even believe OJ has sufficient nutrients to be a net gain for the body. Many of your foods may be unrefined but speaking of nutrient content compared to carbohydrate quantity leaves you severely lacking in B1 100% guaranteed and like some other B-vitamins. Supplements are in general trash, hormones being beneficial is extremely individualistic. Actual nutrients that are proven to be necessary to human life are a different story.

No we dont disagree, you need sufficient food intake. Having an insane appetite is sign of inefficient metabolism. Doesnt mean you eat more than necessary food intake based on BMR, TDEE. I personally would not be where I am today healthwise without large dosing of thiamine, B-complex, zinc, B6 dosing, L-Tyrosine. Thiamine is a bizarre magic vitamin that makes one have near perfect memory, increases and maintains CO2 very well(in my experience and is factually a potent carbonic anhydrase inhibitor) and also supercharges the body(my personal experience). Supplements especially actual nutrients have a place and tend to always help rather then hurt

 

[PurpleHeart]

Yeah, Ray isn't a god, even being better than the christian god, he wouldn't like to be an authoritative figure, he have aversion to authoritarianism. Most people on this forum consider he doesn't know all truth and can be wrong in some affirmations
Is a very nice thing that Haidut isn't a doctor. Doctors are more suicidal than the rest of the population

In your last two paragraphs, its clear there that you don't understand Ray philosophy or understand him lightly, levianamente because he never said things alike

How is being a doctor bad? Ray peat is in fact a doctor and there are some other doctors that also do great work and know a whole lot about biology.
Just because most doctors nowdays are corrupted and blindly follow the bull**** of big farma that doesn't mean that being a doctor is a bad thing.

Also excuse me if i am wrong but i am under the impression that Ray peat states that the fastest your metabolism the better with the only requirement being
sufficient amounts of nutrients and calories which is something i disagree with.

 

[Tenacity]

How is being a doctor bad? Ray peat is in fact a doctor and there are some other doctors that also do great work and know a whole lot about biology.
Just because most doctors nowdays are corrupted and blindly follow the bull**** of big farma that doesn't mean that being a doctor is a bad thing.

Also excuse me if i am wrong but i am under the impression that Ray peat states that the fastest your metabolism the better with the only requirement being
sufficient amounts of nutrients and calories which is something i disagree with.

Peat isn't an MD. He holds a PhD, but that's not what Matheus meant by 'doctor.'

 

[ShotTrue]

Yeah, Ray isn't a god, even being better than the christian god, he wouldn't like to be an authoritative figure, he have aversion to authoritarianism. Most people on this forum consider he doesn't know all truth and can be wrong in some affirmations
Is a very nice thing that Haidut isn't a doctor. Doctors are more suicidal than the rest of the population

In your last two paragraphs, its clear there that you don't understand Ray philosophy or understand him lightly, levianamente because he never said things alike

You say he isn't a god but you are the one who whined and asked for the Anti-Ray Peat label. I also find offensive for you to say he is better than a certain religion's god
IF anything what you are saying about him not knowing everything is the complete opposite of what you spoke of earlier in the week, completely antagonistic to anything different from what Ray Peat said

 

[tca300]